Project Car / Motorbike thread. Let's see 'em.

[Haakon]

So why didn't you get it towed to a workshop to remove the gas?

Because that’s where I drew the line at the dollars and kinda cracked the shits with this dumb arse country…

If was prone to falling for logical fallacies, I’d point out those who do a lot more than my 7000kms a year…

It was shit, and I don’t feel good about it. And I brought it up with the team responsible for regulating these substances in the department.

 

[Haakon]

Also, I didnt refill it with a gas that has an AR5 GWP of 1300…

 

[Flow-Rider]

Because that’s where I drew the line at the dollars and kinda cracked the shits with this dumb arse country…

If was prone to falling for logical fallacies, I’d point out those who do a lot more than my 7000kms a year…

It was shit, and I don’t feel good about it. And I brought it up with the team responsible for regulating these substances in the department.

That's not the point, though. The private sector faces these issues every day of it's working life. Govt doesn't care, other than things need to be done with in compliance of the law, what ever it costs it isn't the Govts problem.

 

[Haakon]

That's not the point, though. The private sector faces these issues every day of it's working life. Govt doesn't care, other than things need to be done with in compliance of the law, what ever it costs it isn't the Govts problem.

Yeah, and where it’s totally impractical and stupidly expensive, the industry quietly vents this stuff.

My models for HFC emissions assume a capture rate that is a long way short of 100%….

 

[Haakon]

Anyway, I ain’t perfect. I made my own compliance vs cost assessment and went with it. As does everyone.

I eat meat, I drive an ICE, I import silly mountain bikes from the UK, I go on regular work trips OS. Etc etc. But I don’t have kids, I don’t drive an SUV, I forwent megabucks in the private sectors to get into climate change work as a career. Swings and roundabouts as the saying goes….

 

[Haakon]

That's not the point, though. The private sector faces these issues every day of it's working life. Govt doesn't care, other than things need to be done with in compliance of the law, what ever it costs it isn't the Govts problem.

Which is also why I went and had a chat with some peeps in the team regulating this stuff. Of course nothing will be done because anything to do with the environment is massively underfunded, so all they can do is go after the big boys. Given the appropriate budget, they can implement the right incentives for mobile operators to service the DIY backyard crowd like me. #votecarfully

 

[Haakon]

That's not the point, though. The private sector faces these issues every day of it's working life. Govt doesn't care, other than things need to be done with in compliance of the law, what ever it costs it isn't the Govts problem.

Also, the private sector has the potential to do this on a regular basis - not a one off like me. Not said to defend myself, I know I did wrong. But that’s where the compliance effort goes. I know the consequences for me are zip, but as a private sector business I am way more likely to get done.

 

[ausdb]

Also, I didnt refill it with a gas that has an AR5 GWP of 1300…

<RANT>
Sorry I work in the industry and you've just hit a few trigger points with me.

Flammable refrigerants yes they may be bettter on the GWP but theres a little bit more to it than just "less refrigerant", "better efficiency" and "lower head pressures" (depending on the application) its also the "what if" when the Sh!t hits the fan. You just filled it with a flammable substance it was never designed for. I hope you did your own thorough engineering reveiw, put your own "System designed by Haakon Engineering" labels on it and have it well signposted that it contains flammable refrigerant on it for the next person who goes to work on it. Some food for thought, this was one was a long time ago in Perth

https://vasa.org.au/perth-truck-hc-explosion-how-it-happened/

This just more recently in Queensland, maybe you should also put warning labels in the cabin as well. I bet the poor bastard driving that truck was not expecting this to happen.

Non-compliant refrigerant leads to truck explosion

A cabin explosion has occurred as a mine worker was driving a truck in an underground mine in Queensland.

safetowork.com.au

Also on modern refrigeration and air conditioning systems with a lot of electronics the results are not always as rosy as they are made out to be as the refrigerant doesn't behave the same as the original one, and I am yet to have a HC fanboi be able to supply a Mollier / Pressure Enthalpy chart for their HC of choice to compare it with the original refrigerant when they are trying ti work out whuy it isn't peforming 200% better like they were told it was.

As for prsoecution and enforcement, you as a DIY'er would get let off with a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket. ARC seem to have it all wrong for the industry as well, they will have a full on go at a licensed person / entity for the sake of a few missing valve caps on cylinders during an audit. But when presented with situations of delibrate venting or semi skilled muppets carrying out servicing they are not licensed and really have no idea about they go all coy and toothless tiger and it's all too hard unless you have direct video evidence and even in those situations

Anyway seriously disgaree with what you did and your jsutifications are BS, a quick google shows there's at least two mobile car air conditioing service companies in Canberry

Mobile Car Air Conditioning | Truck, Tractor & Auto | Regas & Service | Canberra ACT

Mills Air-Con 0438 242 640. Mobile Air Conditioning service throughout Canberra, ACT & Queanbeyan. Car, Truck & Tractor Air Conditioner service, repair & regas.

millscarairconditioning.com.au

Car Air Conditioning Service, Repair & Regas Canberra ACT

Mills Car Air Conditioning Service, Repair & Regas Canberra, Queanbeyan & ACT. 0438 242 640. Car, Truck, Tractor, Heavy & Farm Machinery Air Conditioning Mobile Service.

koolshops.com

</RANT>
Back to bikes now

 

[Haakon]

<RANT>
Sorry I work in the industry and you've just hit a few trigger points with me.

Flammable refrigerants yes they may be bettter on the GWP but theres a little bit more to it than just "less refrigerant", "better efficiency" and "lower head pressures" (depending on the application) its also the "what if" when the Sh!t hits the fan. You just filled it with a flammable substance it was never designed for. I hope you did your own thorough engineering reveiw, put your own "System designed by Haakon Engineering" labels on it and have it well signposted that it contains flammable refrigerant on it for the next person who goes to work on it. Some food for thought, this was one was a long time ago in Perth

https://vasa.org.au/perth-truck-hc-explosion-how-it-happened/

This just more recently in Queensland, maybe you should also put warning labels in the cabin as well. I bet the poor bastard driving that truck was not expecting this to happen.

Non-compliant refrigerant leads to truck explosion

A cabin explosion has occurred as a mine worker was driving a truck in an underground mine in Queensland.

safetowork.com.au

Also on modern refrigeration and air conditioning systems with a lot of electronics the results are not always as rosy as they are made out to be as the refrigerant doesn't behave the same as the original one, and I am yet to have a HC fanboi be able to supply a Mollier / Pressure Enthalpy chart for their HC of choice to compare it with the original refrigerant when they are trying ti work out whuy it isn't peforming 200% better like they were told it was.

As for prsoecution and enforcement, you as a DIY'er would get let off with a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket. ARC seem to have it all wrong for the industry as well, they will have a full on go at a licensed person / entity for the sake of a few missing valve caps on cylinders during an audit. But when presented with situations of delibrate venting or semi skilled muppets carrying out servicing they are not licensed and really have no idea about they go all coy and toothless tiger and it's all too hard unless you have direct video evidence and even in those situations

Anyway seriously disgaree with what you did and your jsutifications are BS, a quick google shows there's at least two mobile car air conditioing service companies in Canberry

Mobile Car Air Conditioning | Truck, Tractor & Auto | Regas & Service | Canberra ACT

Mills Air-Con 0438 242 640. Mobile Air Conditioning service throughout Canberra, ACT & Queanbeyan. Car, Truck & Tractor Air Conditioner service, repair & regas.

millscarairconditioning.com.au

Car Air Conditioning Service, Repair & Regas Canberra ACT

Mills Car Air Conditioning Service, Repair & Regas Canberra, Queanbeyan & ACT. 0438 242 640. Car, Truck, Tractor, Heavy & Farm Machinery Air Conditioning Mobile Service.

koolshops.com

</RANT>
Back to bikes now

Yep, and neither of them wanted to come evacuate my dead car.

 

[Haakon]

Anyhoo, the whole “HC refrigeratorents will will doom you to an explosive death” has been done to death elsewhere. I am personally aware of the risks and am aware that r134a with oil in it is also flammable. I also have 70 litres of petrol under the back seat that’s fed under pressure into an area with lots of heat and spark hazards…

Yes I put the label on should I ever pass the car into someone else and they send it to a jittery AC tech.

 

[Haakon]

I should probably put a post on at some point about how policy and regulations works… The short version is its bang for buck - pay attention to the industry dealing with the thing, and acknowledge that diminishing returns kick in fast when chasing the little guys…

 

[The Dude]

That's not the point, though. The private sector faces these issues every day of it's working life. Govt doesn't care, other than things need to be done with in compliance of the law, what ever it costs it isn't the Govts problem.

We reckon this stuff is really bad for the environment, and we'll fine you like f*ck if you vent it. By the way, we are building a new coal-fired power station with our donors...

 

[Haakon]

My Westinghouse fridge has an HC refrigeratent in, as do most new fridges these days.

 

[Haakon]

This is starting to get a bit off topic, but on the point of “what the system is designed for”, it’s my understanding (and I’m perfectly happy to be corrected) that r134a is a pretty average refrigerant and that such systems don’t mind being fed a more efficient gas. So long as the seals and lubricant are compatible they’re happy.

 

[ausdb]

This is starting to get a bit off topic, but on the point of “what the system is designed for”, it’s my understanding (and I’m perfectly happy to be corrected) that r134a is a pretty average refrigerant and that such systems don’t mind being fed a more efficient gas. So long as the seals and lubricant are compatible they’re happy.

Good question, the answer is long I'll post later when feeling better, unless another refrig tech wants to chime in.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Can't you get gas recovery kits in West Sydney? Cheap and do the trick. Then you can take it to someone who cares.

 

[Haakon]

Can't you get gas recovery kits in West Sydney? Cheap and do the trick. Then you can take it to someone who cares.

Gas recovery kits?

 

[Dales Cannon]

Gas recovery kits?

Yarp.

 

[slowmick]

My Westinghouse fridge has an HC refrigeratent in, as do most new fridges these days.

And they are considered sealed for life appliances. Slightly different kettle of flammable fish.

 

[Haakon]

And they are considered sealed for life appliances. Slightly different kettle of flammable fish.

Obviously. Just making the point this isn’t exactly a new and scary idea.

I forgot how exercised some people got about HyChill…