Speeding is bad, mmkay?

[johnny]

I wish everyone would just shut the fcuk up.

:deadhorse:

Um, stop reading the thread then, maybe?

 

[redbruce]

Just to add to the pot - as someone has pointed out already, the speed limit is an arbitrary figure plucked out of thin air. A motorway / freeway in NSW will have a speed limit of 110km/h because the NSW government picked that figure, but that same road in France would have a speed limit of 130km/h, because the French government decided that a different figure was a safe limit.

So why is it that doing 130km/h is dangerous here, but not in France? Answer - it's not dangerous anywhere if done in the right conditions. Which also also puts paid to the argument that some are using to justify their 'right-lane-moron' actions - ie that they are doing a service by slowing down people who would otherwise kill themselves or others. Yes, these people are breaking the local law, but no, going fast doesn't automatically kill you. Lots of French people are still alive to prove this.

Some French research for you:
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/161/9/864.full

The culture in Australia being one built on thieves versus redcoats?

No, the well studied and documented relationship between road-traffic accidents and social context of driving.
http://acrs.org.au/files/arsrpe/Paper 113 - Magableh - Cultural Perspectives.pdf
http://www.researchgate.net/profile...nvolvement/links/01b26a3c04d84defe3b5b7c0.pdf
http://www.monash.edu/miri/research/reports/muarccr81.pdf

When it comes to increasing risk - you note the point of "speed differential" - well it also goes that people driving slower than the traffic likewise increase risk for themselves and other road users, yet no one seems to be canning me ( I mean them not me)for driving 20kmh less than the traffic.
You obviously don't live in Victoria, no one does less than the speed limit, especially when running red lights. In any case, the number of people travelling at less than 20kmh of the traffic , is, what?

I speed, I speed in a manageable manner - I have to because my car has just come up to 65,000km in 19months ( excluding the wife's car that I often drive)- and I drive on some of the most policed highways in the country. I have shit to do and saving 19 or 20 minutes each day by small amounts of speeding ads up to a shitload of riding I can do instead of sitting behind the wheel watching the brake lights in front.
Yep, Thats what they all say. Also you must lead a boring life where you worry about 20 minutes out of 1440 minutes, that's 1.4% of your day. That's meaningful and productive activity.

Last speeding ticket was around 6 years and 250,000km ago.
And? Not good management by your own admission

People are welcome to think that driving slowly makes no difference to their travel times, they can live in that cocoon, but I don't bother other people, and I think it's fair that others don't bother me with their idea of morality
What, no practical difference in the scheme of things, well........have a happy self righteous existence then.

The studies used by TAC and RTA etc for speed control are based on the Adelaide studies back in the 80s - these are the claims that crash risk is doubled every 5kmh, that speed causes 1/3rd of serious accidents etc. yet in particular the Adelaide study had serious methodological flaws and has never been replicated again.

The middle view that corresponds with most worldwide data is that significant speeding is a significant contributor in 7% through to the high teens of fatalities. The far bigger causes, are drunkeness, drugs, and fatigue.

The last one is the most likely by a fair margin to take out fellow posters, not least of all because when you are asleep, you tend to hit things very hard and fast ( ie without braking)

Frankly, it's a miracle the road toll is so low - people get away with texting, sending emails, driving over centre islands, failing to see other cars pretty much every single day I'm out on the road, and maybe once every few years I actually see a prang happen in front of my eyes, and even those are all walk away

You need to read more widely, there is a lot more contemporary research and consequently, evidence around speed/risk:
http://www.monash.edu.au/miri/research/reports/muarc276.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16533112
No one (in contemporary published literature on the subject) remembers Adelaide in the 80's it seems.

This is now the principle insidious risk associated with "low speed":
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijpedi/2013/841360/

In NSW it is reported that the principle risk factors, in descending order are; speed, fatigue and drink driving (and equal to distractions, such as texting).
http://www.qbe.com.au/Personal/Insu...uses-of-road-accidents-in-Australia/index.htm

I will however throw this in as a thought provoker:
http://theconversation.com/where-drivers-dont-mean-to-speed-its-no-good-just-fining-them-32747
and this: http://www.tufts.edu/~skrimsky/PDF/Emerg_Risk.PDF

 

[Plankosaurus]

Well, it's only rational if it's logical - so let's just call it polite discussion heh

Your first paragraph seems to assume that those not paying attention behaviours are also speeding, and doing so deliberately - I'd contend that speeders ( gradual, not 20kmh over versions ) are extremely unlikely to be doing makeup, on phone, texting etc. in fact in my observance , the opposite applies - the person who has slowed is now texting etc - they've stopped paying attention to driving. HOWEVER, they often also miss a speed change sign and drive off thinking they're not speeding because they looked at their phone as they went past the 60 sign.

The "in the event of an accident" is classic govt advertising stuff - the question should always be, how do we reduce the number of accidents , but the police and TAC rta have given up on this and have gone the harm minimisation approach of slow all the traffic down so the inevitable hurts less.

What this does ignore is the cost of slowing transport down . If in order to save 10 lives a year in Melbourne , is it worth for instance having 2 million people lose 20 extra hours a year n the road? This is the typical math they don't do when examine these policies. They do it when building a new road, but not when visiting speed limits.

Human life isn't sancrosanct - there is a cost to family time, to work costs, to stress levels ,and the unemployment from lossed licenses etc of slowing all the traffic down to maybe save a few lives - we should be asking if the massive cost is worth it.

The other argument is that whilever the police force and govt is obsessed with a single thing like speeding, they therefore ignore other things like road design, managing fatigue, traffic flow etc

no, i was saying that with all these things going on, why would you want to speed? lets say that dude doing his make up (heh) decides to merge into you while you're doing 10 over, thats 10 more speeds to push your steeringwheel (or someone elses steeringwheel) up into your chest, or your engine up over your legs. my point was basically that its dangerous enough out there, why would you want to make it more so.


i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the value of life here too (if i'm reading this incorrectly, sorry), i do think that a couple of lives is worth more than the hours lost, you've also gotta think about the flow on effect that all accidents have aswell. everyone has a choice to make with the life vs work ratio, and if you choose to work a way out from where you choose to live, then thats the call you make. i'm not trying to cheapen this decision, its not an easy thing to move or change jobs and its even harder when you have a family to involve, but a choice exists nonetheless.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Um, stop reading the thread then, maybe?

It was once useful.

I live in hope.

 

[Plankosaurus]

You've just added blind faith to your list of fundamentalist behaviors, lol!!

baaaaa :flock: ray: :amen:

i wouldn't call acceptance faith, but yeah, i definitely turn a blind eye to it. as i said, i know the law's not infallible here, but its outside my capabilities to think up and change it to something better, and i dont believe i have the right to make a call on when to obey it.

 

[Plankosaurus]

blah blah blah, i'm angry, your a jerk, blah blah

yes, i'm a jerk, see previous posts for rebuttal

i've learnt at least 2 valuable things here in the last couple of days:

1- there IS in fact a law stating that the right lane is for overtaking. duly noted, just happens that my tactics dont need to change to follow the law

2- its probably not wise to openly state that i'm a jerk on rotorburn. seems i got a few noses out of joint, sorry guys, peace pipe? :love:


BTW, much of my attitude in early posts came from the way stirk was attacked initially. nobody seems to have batted an eyelid about someone stating that they'd "run him off the road", but he's the devil incarnate for slowing a couple of people down?

maybe me and stirk can go make our own forum
with hookers
and blackjack
in fact, forget about the forum :heh:

 

[MARKL]

I understand Plank and Stirk's frustration but my logic is I would rather have the nut bags in front of me where I can see them, watch them, avoid them and hopefully be entertained as they knock on their maker's door. Why would I want to step between them and destiny?

On the speeding thing, if I/you speed we deserve what you get...generally. The issue I have is the zero tolerance approach, if someone is a large amount over the limit all good fine them to the letter of the law. But when it is close to the limit and in line with the general traffic tempo, it is in my view irrelevant. I would rather somebody watching the road and the traffic around them than having their eyes glued to the speedo and not noticing what is happening around them.

I have a much bigger issue with tailgaters and those that run red lights than people a few kay's over the limit.

 

[hazza6542]

How the hell does the system give someone on their Ps this many chances to F--k Up and still keep a licence? The mind boggles.

Didn't get enough demerit points to lose it, simple.

Inattention; e.g. "Wasn't really thinking, limit jumps down to 60 from 80 for a few hundred metres and I just cruised on through at 80"
I do not want to be on the road with that person, and of all people, they need slowing down because clearly their brains do not work at the same speed their vehicle is attaining.

...

I was last booked for speeding in 2000, and I copped it sweet because it was fully due to my inattention.

That person sounds like a terrible driver. If I knew him I'd beat him up for ya.

Right, so my inattentiveness to my speed is reflective of my entire driving attitude? The limit jumps down because that area gets a bit busier during the day with a line of shops parallel to the highway. The shops are behind a wall and concrete barrier, and a car park, so they're a fair way out of danger, BUT, it's still a 60 zone, fair enough, I get that. So my doing 80km/h late at night with nobody on that entire stretch of road driving, walking, cycling and not a soul in the whole shopping complex, really isn't putting anyone at risk besides myself. I'm not advocating speeding when it 'feels' safe, but sometimes doing what was perfectly legal 100m before might not kill anyone and just maybe, isn't worth 6 demerit points.

Like I've said, I too copped my fine sweet because it was fully due to my inattention. You know, we're not so different, you and I....

 

[pharmaboy]

I understand Plank and Stirk's frustration but my logic is I would rather have the nut bags in front of me where I can see them, watch them, avoid them and hopefully be entertained as they knock on their maker's door. Why would I want to step between them and destiny?

On the speeding thing, if I/you speed we deserve what you get...generally. The issue I have is the zero tolerance approach, if someone is a large amount over the limit all good fine them to the letter of the law. But when it is close to the limit and in line with the general traffic tempo, it is in my view irrelevant. I would rather somebody watching the road and the traffic around them than having their eyes glued to the speedo and not noticing what is happening around them.

I have a much bigger issue with tailgaters and those that run red lights than people a few kay's over the limit.

Get a grip! As if we'd ever get to this many pages if everyone was as sensible as that!

You need something more outrageous to get it rolling again.

 

[MARKL]

Get a grip! As if we'd ever get to this many pages if everyone was as sensible as that!

You need something more outrageous to get it rolling again.

Stirk and Plank to replace Moorey as mod?

 

[stirk]

Stirk and Plank to replace Moorey as mod?

Most sensible post in this thread, and your earlier one quite sensible.


I'll kick things off again.:heh:

Horns, when do you use them and when was the last time a horn was used against you?

Me, I only ever use a horn to scare off birds eating roadkill so they don't become roadkill or maybe once every 5 years at a cow with it's head stuck through the fence eating tasty roadside grass, and maybe some other cows just hanging out, they don't seem to care, must be a city boy thing.

Have not had a horn honked at me for longer than I can remember, 10-15 years. People don't use horns much anymore, maybe fear of road rage has reduced horn usage.

 

[hazza6542]

Most sensible post in this thread, and your earlier one quite sensible.


I'll kick things off again.:heh:

Horns, when do you use them and when was the last time a horn was used against you?

Me, I only ever use a horn to scare off birds eating roadkill so they don't become roadkill or maybe once every 5 years at a cow with it's head stuck through the fence eating tasty roadside grass, and maybe some other cows just hanging out, they don't seem to care, must be a city boy thing.

Have not had a horn honked at me for longer than I can remember, 10-15 years. People don't use horns much anymore, maybe fear of road rage has reduced horn usage.

Last time I used it, dude sitting on his phone at red light. I got the finger for it, it was probably an important text.

Best one was (I love talking to other mountain folk) you know the turn off into glenbrook off the highway heading down the mountain, at the servo? Generally in traffic people will leave space for people to get through there. This guy stops dead in front of my car when the other lane had left space. Nobody moved for another 30 seconds and he just sat there blankly looking forward. Sat on the horn for a little while, he refused to even look over knowing he was the dick.

 

[johnny]

I want to create a car horn that gives a really loud "GETTHAFUCKOUTAMYWAY" or "YEAHYOUKNOWYOUDONEFUCKEDUP"

 

[stirk]

Last time I used it, dude sitting on his phone at red light. I got the finger for it, it was probably an important text.

Best one was (I love talking to other mountain folk) you know the turn off into glenbrook off the highway heading down the mountain, at the servo? Generally in traffic people will leave space for people to get through there. This guy stops dead in front of my car when the other lane had left space. Nobody moved for another 30 seconds and he just sat there blankly looking forward. Sat on the horn for a little while, he refused to even look over knowing he was the dick.

Yep, I know it, a right turn across two oncoming lanes, you were turning right and one aware person stopped allowing room for you to cross but then you got blocked by unaware dick who didn't think of leaving space.

See it all the time.

 

[stirk]

I want to create a car horn that gives a really loud "GETTHAFUCKOUTAMYWAY" or "YEAHYOUKNOWYOUDONEFUCKEDUP"

I was thinking the same thing last night, a customizable voice horn.

XC riders would be honking "TRACK!!"

Roadies would be honking "CAR UP!!"

 

[pharmaboy]

Last horn use - about 5pm today

Bloke sitting at lights waiting for filter, looking left inside his car, light turns green, and I toot the horn after a short delay, as a result about 5 cars got through, if no one hooted, probably just him.

Not angry, just a wakey wakey toot. You do occasionally get people who think you are pissed off - it's only a fucking horn people, not a gun - relax, but pay attention ( most people just wave of course, it's only the occasional paranoid rotorburner that gives you the finger)

 

[Rob_74]

Yep, I know it, a right turn across two oncoming lanes, you were turning right and one aware person stopped allowing room for you to cross but then you got blocked by unaware dick who didn't think of leaving space.

See it all the time.

But if you can dont you block the lane just in case someone might try and turn illegally without an indicator on?

 

[MARKL]

I tend to use it a lot, people asleep at traffic lights, no indicators, just drifting in between lanes or other fuckwittery. Used the horn extensively last Saturday. Finished riding at Serrata and Gahnia stopped for a bite to eat on the way home at Forestville shops. Reversing out of car parking space and this taxi driver speeds up and beeps the horn at me as he was too important to wait for somebody reversing out of a parking space. I end up behind him leaving the shopping centre car park turning right, cars are backed up at the next intersection but genius taxi driver drives onto the road and blocks it for cars coming the other way. Horn got a work out at that point.

 

[stirk]

But if you can dont you block the lane just in case someone might try and turn illegally without an indicator on?

Of course not, I can sense if someone is trying to turn off a main street into a side road, traffic banked up behind them, anxious look on their face, indicator maybe not working, I see that. You never block a turning area anyway! :noidea:


In a steady stream of single lane traffic on a major road I also know if I slow down a little and create a decent gap between me and the car in front of me I create opportunities for others to turn into or across the road. I consciously do this, probably pisses people off behind me seeing such a big gap but the people who can use that gap are happy and everyone gets where they are going at the same time.

 

[hazza6542]

I want to create a car horn that gives a really loud "GETTHAFUCKOUTAMYWAY" or "YEAHYOUKNOWYOUDONEFUCKEDUP"

I think you're looking for one of these. I want one for the beetle when the asthmatic smoker of an original horn doesn't do the trick..

[video=youtube;icnRMW6P9nc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icnRMW6P9nc[/video]