Product Review Wolf Tooth 104 BCD Elliptical Drop-Stop Chainring from Mountain Bikes Direct

[swaz]

There's no contest in what you've said about the bike review; thats a shit flaw and should be stated and given an award for something totally shit.
I see your point about a review being biased because of whatever circumstance led to the review being generated but I can't agree. I've purchased a ton of stuff based on a shit review of something I thought may be quite good from well written articles and it isn't just replies from people who buy the stuff, it's from trusted sources that don't get any benefit from doing the review other than the sake of testing the gear and doing the review.

Not just aimed at Swaz but what pattern do you use for buying parts if you think all reviews on websites are total load of bullshit?

There is a level of mistrust for me when a review is done when the product is provided FOC to the reviewer. I think there is much more honesty when a review comes from someone who has paid for a product themselves. Much like asking a sponsored rider if the bike they are riding is good or not. I was possibly a bit harsh in hammering you for it in the first place. I was going to do a review not long ago on a product I was given a very good deal on. It made me want to talk to product up more than I possibly would have if I paid retail for it. Especially given it had some serious flaws to it that pissed me off on a regular basis.

I thought Flow was sponsored by Trek there for a while because every video had the logo on it, they were riding and then reviewing their bikes. If bike companies wanted to sell more bikes. Get every day riders together and get them to test the bikes and then take the bikes back.

 

[Daisy]

Nice work Dozer. I thought that was very thorough & an interesting read.
Cheers, Daisy

 

[wkkie]

Nice work Dozer. Thanks for the review.

When your looking at getting something new, don't just take one places / reviews word as being the be all and end all, look at other places too, speak to others and then put the complete picture together and decide if it's for you or not.

On the oval rings, I've been thinking about them for a while. I read a few things and have spoken to some people that have used them and they have similar things to say as Dozer had said above. Do putting all that info together, I'll try one down the track because I'm lazy and unfit and can't climb for shit and this seems to help! And I need all the help I can get climbing!

Thanks again Dozer and I'm looking forward to more reviews, whatever they are.

 

[Dales Cannon]

The elliptical ring was/is 32T? And the circular ring was also 32T? I have read elsewhere that the 34T elliptical rides the same as a 32T circular ring? So same climbing effort but with the advantage of better top end?

 

[Flow-Rider]

The elliptical ring was/is 32T? And the circular ring was also 32T? I have read elsewhere that the 34T elliptical rides the same as a 32T circular ring? So same climbing effort but with the advantage of better top end?

The teeth numbers are the same but the diameters slightly differ.

 

[dunndog]

I bet you're looking forward to reviewing the Malaysian Grand Prix VIP package tickets you'll be provided?! No vested interest... right.
Scam.

 

[johnny]

I bet you're looking forward to reviewing the Malaysian Grand Prix VIP package tickets you'll be provided?! No vested interest... right.
Scam.

My joke meter may be on the fritz and I hope it is because if you think this is some kind of cheap scam you've got rocks in your fucking head.


We did reviews years ago when Rob was still around, I was part of that effort. We received free product then and not all of the reviews were fully positive nor did they gloss over obvious issues. Neither will these so how's about everyone just gives this a bit of a chance before you try and read some one's mind with your awesome powers of judgement.

I was the one that pushed this issue forward with exactly the aim that Dozer stated: building a product review database to assist current users and to try and generate more traffic and attract new users to the website. If y'all haven't noticed forums are slowing down and many are dying due to changes in social media. Dozer has worked hard to set up this agreement with MTBD to achieve these goals and now he's copping some completely unwarranted shit from people who are judging him before he's even been given a chance.

Have a think about that for a minute.

And when you do, try checking out how much MTB kit that Dozer buys and sells on the reg and ask yourself if he looks like the kind of guy that needs to scam for a few minor bike parts.

 

[johnny]

Sorry for the rant as the majority of folk are positive. The accusation of running a scam pissed me off, that's all.

 

[moorey]

Sorry for the rant as the majority of folk are positive. The accusation of running a scam pissed me off, that's all.

In Dunndogs defence, with all due respect, I'm 99% sure his tongue was planted firmly in his cheek.

 

[swaz]

I think your joke meter is dun brokeded. :mod:

 

[moorey]

And in Johnny's defence, I can see he'd want feedback to be constructive, given MTBD are involved and reading. Unfortunately we aren't in Kansas any more.

 

[schred]

Jonny I think it's a good idea, the trick is how to get around the bias issue, actual and perceived. Reviews need a degree of formality and consistency, would it be possible to have them done by more than one person, from different perspectives/backgrounds?

Eg. I'm a member of other forums where some new items are provided by shops/distros, and they get passed around to members to try out, each member pays the postage themselves and in return gets to try it for a few weeks. Its basically self organised, members stick their hand up and get added to a virtual list to try it next. Bike parts are pretty disposable though, so might only be good for a few inputs.

 

[Dozer]

I was going to do a review not long ago on a product I was given a very good deal on. It made me want to talk to product up more than I possibly would have if I paid retail for it. Especially given it had some serious flaws to it that pissed me off on a regular basis.

Please go ahead and do the review! Not only is it building our review source up, it's good info for potential buyers who come here to do their research.

The elliptical ring was/is 32T? And the circular ring was also 32T? I have read elsewhere that the 34T elliptical rides the same as a 32T circular ring? So same climbing effort but with the advantage of better top end?

Yes, both rings are 32. I am very keen to test that theory of a bigger toothed elliptical can run the same heat rate as a 32 circular, thats very interesting.

I bet you're looking forward to reviewing the Malaysian Grand Prix VIP package tickets you'll be provided?! No vested interest... right.
Scam.

Hahaha, I missed the boat on that one! The Malaysian Grand Prix has been cancelled! I'll request they swap it for the US Grand Prix mate.

And when you do, try checking out how much MTB kit that Dozer buys and sells on the reg and ask yourself if he looks like the kind of guy that needs to scam for a few minor bike parts.

Johnny gets a weekly text from me outlining what part I bought that got me kicked out of the house for the night by wifey, he knows the gig. :behindsofa:

Jonny I think it's a good idea, the trick is how to get around the bias issue, actual and perceived. Reviews need a degree of formality and consistency, would it be possible to have them done by more than one person, from different perspectives/backgrounds?

Eg. I'm a member of other forums where some new items are provided by shops/distros, and they get passed around to members to try out, each member pays the postage themselves and in return gets to try it for a few weeks. Its basically self organised, members stick their hand up and get added to a virtual list to try it next. Bike parts are pretty disposable though, so might only be good for a few inputs.

I am working on this as we speak. I haven't intended to do all the in depth reviews like this one myself and agree it's great to have several trusted reviewers on the panel. I also have a shortlist of members that I would love to give parts to to add follow up reviews on parts that we've got reviews on to build up a good review source. Can anyone see any problems with that? It'd give us a mixed review base on parts that can deliver a different result for other users.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

There is a level of mistrust for me when a review is done when the product is provided FOC to the reviewer. I think there is much more honesty when a review comes from someone who has paid for a product themselves.

I am on the fence about this statement. I much prefer talking to people out on the trail using the part, that's a no brainer and a great way of getting feedback in the environment you actually ride in.

But there is an issue of the sunken cost fallacy, people who spend there own money, especially in the honey moon period, tend to overlook some of the negatives, if overall the component is more or less doing it's job.

But strongly in support of your statement, the bible of bikes in 2015? they plastered a trek I think, a few days later, the video was removed and a new 'positive' review replaced it, the three stooges looked guilty as fuck, like they had had a good talking down to from a major sponsor.

 

[Misplaced]

...But there is an issue of the sunken cost fallacy...

It that the fancy term for Fools Bias? - when someone buys an insanely expensive bit of kit and then never admits negatives for fear of affecting resale value or wanting to admit they bought junk and should've done their research?

 

[Tubbsy]

Quite frankly I'm amazed that this post is generating this level of introspection into the philosophy of product reviews... The manner by which Dozer came by the product was clear from the beginning.



When reading any review about anything, anywhere, it's pretty obviously the reviewer's subjective experience and it's up to the reader to view the findings in the context of their own needs and commercial position of the review.

It's not a bloody peer reviewed science experiment.

 

[Smiker]

I've got a few insights into the mountain bike review world and really it's muddy waters as to what's best practice. Advertisers will send product to websites/magazines/blog owners/social media influencers, looking for a review. This will not change. It may be more about seeing it in use, than having a review. So do you even know if you're being influenced? Has your awareness of any products increased as a top rider, competitive or not, uses it?

As people have pointed out, reviewing provided gear can set you up to be too positive. So the suggestion by some members that it should be sent to them to review doesn't change the perceived reliability of having someone else test it. They're still getting it for free, right?

And agreed, if people pay for the product, then they are likely to see it as a good investment, and potentially skew the review.

The best bet is to use a source that tests a lot of product, and uses a variety of reliable product testers, so their base line for what should be expected from a product is solid. And it looks like this arrangement with MTBD should allow Dozer to do just that, increasing his already lengthy product knowledge and experience, and making a good resource.

It's also worth noting that most big ticket items aren't kept by reviewers, they're returned. Some suppliers even request tyres to be returned after review. Just an insight.

 

[Misplaced]

Quite frankly I'm amazed that this post is generating this level of introspection....

Well, the team wanted traffic.

Success!

 

[link1896]

we need more of this review activity, the economics of a niche website/forum like this are super slim. honesty of dozer/johnny/scott is well above board.

there is no media laws covering blogger/forum activities. the MTB world is just not able to afford to influence the forum participant (at least in Aus), but it sure does occur in other industries. the hobbyist computer industry is RIFE with undisclosed commercial arrangements that reach down to the forum participant levels (i've been approached in the past). this goes unnoticed 98% of the time, and so many people get played as a result.

 

[johnny]

In Dunndogs defence, with all due respect, I'm 99% sure his tongue was planted firmly in his cheek.

I think your joke meter is dun brokeded. :mod:

Yeah, I imagine that you are on the money and sorry to Dunndog. T'was the end of a very long day!!