The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

Who will you vote for?

  • Liberals

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Labor

    Votes: 21 31.8%
  • Nationals

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Greens

    Votes: 21 31.8%
  • Independant

    Votes: 15 22.7%
  • The Clive Palmer shit show

    Votes: 4 6.1%
  • Shooters and Fishers Party

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • One Nation

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Donkey/Invalid vote

    Votes: 3 4.5%

  • Total voters
    66

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
In Murica, yeah, maybe don't get too mouthy and slappy on Jeebus. 'Specially them rightous gun-totin Jeebus freaks that take their version of Jeebusianity super seriously and believe their bible is an infallible historical document.
So one religious group gets a pass from you but another gets this?

I appreciate that you're going to say the Christians weren't murdered in the holocaust, but the holocaust was brought on by anti Semitic sentiment and youre displaying anti-christian sentiment in the same post as defending jews. Doesnt really come across as tolerant. You know the Jews also belive their holy texts to be historical documents? deeply so. So much that many of their traditions appear way more irrational than any Christian ones youre familiar with. Defending jews or Muslims while simultanously bagging another religous group just doesn't add up.
On the balance of things all religious groups have been persecuted over their history in numbers that are well beyond most of our comprehension. It's just that the holocaust was pretty recent.
 

Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
How do you know the outcry is pretend? Do you know all those people personally and how they actually feel? You might think you know, but chances are you don't. Leave them be. The world and people are complicated.
Call me cynical, but I'd hazard a guess most of the media don't actually offend as easily as they make out. Especially when they go splashing it around to get some more clicks, knowing that it will get a wider audience.
"Here's a thing I find deeply offensive and triggering, I'll make sure as many people as possible get to see it"


Edit - saw this while having brekky. Does seem as if there might be "reason" this came to light all of a sudden. Shocking stuff



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Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
So one religious group gets a pass from you but another gets this?

I appreciate that you're going to say the Christians weren't murdered in the holocaust, but the holocaust was brought on by anti Semitic sentiment and youre displaying anti-christian sentiment in the same post as defending jews. Doesnt really come across as tolerant. You know the Jews also belive their holy texts to be historical documents? deeply so. So much that many of their traditions appear way more irrational than any Christian ones youre familiar with. Defending jews or Muslims while simultanously bagging another religous group just doesn't add up.
On the balance of things all religious groups have been persecuted over their history in numbers that are well beyond most of our comprehension. It's just that the holocaust was pretty recent.
I know even my kids kids kids grandkids won't probably won't live to see it, but wouldn't it be nice if we could as a whole just not be absolute cunts to each other based on heritage or belief?

I'm not asking everyone to not be cunts, just to be cunts to people that deserve it based on merit

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Squidfayce

Eats Squid
I know even my kids kids kids grandkids won't probably won't live to see it, but wouldn't it be nice if we could as a whole just not be absolute cunts to each other based on heritage or belief?

I'm not asking everyone to not be cunts, just to be cunts to people that deserve it based on merit

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In principle,sure. But where that always breaks down is around who decides? Let use religious groups as an example. Catholics happen to have a huge stigma due to pedo priests and cover ups,Muslims due to treatment of women and child marriage etc. Should the merit be based on their religeon, an extreme interpretation of or on the individual? How do we teach people to segregate their prejudices against cunts and those cunt's faiths because clearly not all muslims or catholics are pedos or abusive to women and children? Because the problem I see is that most people can't make that seperation, even if its an unconcious bias. Even intelligent people struggle with this and this drives the perpetual hate machine.
 

ForkinGreat

Knows his Brassica oleracea
So one religious group gets a pass from you but another gets this?

I appreciate that you're going to say the Christians weren't murdered in the holocaust, but the holocaust was brought on by anti Semitic sentiment and youre displaying anti-christian sentiment in the same post as defending jews. Doesnt really come across as tolerant. You know the Jews also belive their holy texts to be historical documents? deeply so. So much that many of their traditions appear way more irrational than any Christian ones youre familiar with. Defending jews or Muslims while simultanously bagging another religous group just doesn't add up.
On the balance of things all religious groups have been persecuted over their history in numbers that are well beyond most of our comprehension. It's just that the holocaust was pretty recent.
Nope, no one group ultimately gets a pass, TBH.

I agree with your post. Once we wade into this boggy swamp - we are probably only up to our ankles or knees right now - , it requires TLDR length posts, and it still doesn't really cover it.

I recognize that the Jewish state can get pretty fucking aggressive about any real or imagined slight or criticism.
Any time a government says ANYTHING supportive of the Palestinian state and people - just watch the Israeli gubbinment get enraged and go into hyperdrive spewing all sorts of bullshit. Any support of Palestinians, or calling out Israeli airstrikes against Palestinian civilian targets is usually immediately branded 'Anti-Semitic' (racist), or worse.

According to the Jewish religious books, non-jews are inferior beings, and either don't have souls, or those souls are corrupted and impure, AFAIK. that's a bit problematic, to put it mildly.
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
According to the Jewish religious books, non-jews are inferior beings, and either don't have souls, or those souls are corrupted and impure, AFAIK. that's a bit problematic, to put it mildly.
I think you're referring to the concept of "chosenness" which all comes down to interpretation. Much like some extreme Muslims would think their religeon and ideals are superior, there are some that would interpret choseness the same. But these are extremes and not the beliefs held by majorities within those religeons.

The whole debate about "chosenness" is actually pretty interesting because there are many rabbinic scholars who recognise the problematic nature of this concept. But it's hard to avoid given the texts and history associated with the Jewish faith.

Religeon the world over, specifically organised religeon can be problematic. But the reality is that at the core of most, if not all religions, is one core tennant - dont be a cunt. The rest is people getting all scholarly about the details. Hence where the organised aspect tends to add complexity where there realistically shouldn't be any.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
FIFY. The concept of chosenness is essentially being a cunt.

Edit: as per posts below I meant chosen ones and the various interpretations different religions have of that concept.
 
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Squidfayce

Eats Squid
FIFY. The concept of chosenness is essentially being a cunt.
yeah based on that, i don't think you're qualified to make any statement around it. probably the most ignorant comment you could make. If you're curious what anti-Semitism looks like, this is it.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
yeah based on that, i don't think you're qualified to make any statement around it. probably the most ignorant comment you could make. If you're curious what anti-Semitism looks like, this is it.
Huh? Where did I specifically talk about the Jewish religion?

In referring to most religious beliefs, is it not a bit cunty to believe you are superior based on ancient texts invented by people not based on evidence? Is it not a bit cunty to not accept some humans (LGBTQI+ for example) based on religious beliefs?

I'm not calling for the abolition/maltreatment of any Jews based on their race and/or religion, that's anti semetism as far as I know it.

I am saying most religion is inherently cunty. I don't understand how you extrapolated that to anti semitism.
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
Huh? Where did I specifically talk about the Jewish religion?

In referring to most religious beliefs, is it not a bit cunty to believe you are superior based on ancient texts invented by people not based on evidence? Is it not a bit cunty to not accept some humans (LGBTQI+ for example) based on religious beliefs?

I'm not calling for the abolition/maltreatment of any Jews based on their race and/or religion, that's anti semetism as far as I know it.

I am saying most religion is inherently cunty. I don't understand how you extrapolated that to anti semitism.
this is one of those moments of "if i have to explain it to you..."

"chosenness" is an exclusively jewish religious concept. By saying the concept is "essentially being a cunt" youre saying that by definition of the belief in the concept, which all jews believe in, you're a cunt - ergo all jews are cunts.

The reason I've said you're ignorant on the topic is because it has ZERO to do with the belief of superiority. I said some may use that interpretation, but it isn't meant to be that nor is it ever explicitly described as that. Its because of this lack of actual agreed meaning that SOME may view it that way, especially from the outside. The concept is deep and well debated among Jews, Jewish scholars etc. because of this. You should probably do some reading on this if you care, but know you're waaaaay off the mark.

Whether it is cunty or not for religions to accept LGBTQILMNOP+ isn't the point were talking about. Were talking about Jews and chosenness. However since you brought it up, Jews have plenty of gays in their ranks. It's worth noting that their texts only ever expressly had issues with male to male sex, not homosexuality in of itself. The thing is that Jews recognise how divisive this inconsistency in their texts is so there isn't really a modern synagogue in existence that would turn away a homosexual Jew, or any Jew for that matter. The Jewish people value community far more than a vaguely, possibly misunderstood text. That wont stop them talkign about it though and seeking to better interpret it for the times. You're sort of clutching at straws on that one.

As far as homsexuality or gender politics come into religion in general, they're not inherently opposed to each other in the modern world. It just the old individuals within these organisations that might be because of some dated interpretation of an old bunch of books, which is why these things are and have been changing for decades. Its like the American right to bear arms - made sense 300 years ago. not today. Religion is progressive these days, or at least trying to be. They are playing catch up, but most of them recognise their old world views and interpretations is how they alienate future faithfuls. We have lesbian priests in any number of Christians religions as an example, many observant openly gay muslims etc. Might be hard pressed to sell a gay male catholic priest given the climate though.

Anti Semitism has nothing to do with the abolishment of the Jewish religion. Anti-Semitism is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews. Which by its very definition, saying something like " The concept of chosenness is essentially being a cunt. " is anti Semitic. Youre showing prejudice and hostility to Jews because you think that what they believe equates to being a cunt.

is that enough mansplaining on the the topic, or did you want to make some other vague attempt at humor on the topic that just slides into anti-semitic rehtoric ala Kanye West.
 

Tubbsy

Packin' a small bird
Staff member
is that enough mansplaining on the the topic
Nice mansplainy rant.

I think @Scotty T made it pretty clear he was talking about "chosen ones" in general, a pretty common view of many different religious extremists and eugenicists.

No need to spew out a patronising 2000 word essay accusing someone of anti-semitism when the semantic point (chosenness v chosen people) you're basing it all on was cleared up in the post you quoted.

Let's draw the line at personal shit and religion eh? Last time this happened Hambo got hamboned, and nobody needs to witness something like that again.
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
I'm fine with people who dress up like us rednecks, just don't pretend to be surprised when I try to root you like you are my brother or sister.
On a serious note, the media failed miserably to demonize Dom, even if I don't support him it's good to see their bullshit failed.

There is no shortage of material to de.oniee him on. Playing dress ups didn't get a lot of mileage because they just wanted to remind him who holds the leash.
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
Nice mansplainy rant.

I think @Scotty T made it pretty clear he was talking about "chosen ones" in general, a pretty common view of many different religious extremists and eugenicists.

No need to spew out a patronising 2000 word essay accusing someone of anti-semitism when the semantic point (chosenness v chosen people) you're basing it all on was cleared up in the post you quoted.

Let's draw the line at personal shit and religion eh? Last time this happened Hambo got hamboned, and nobody needs to witness something like that again.
Even after re reading it twice, i don't think the post quoted did anything to clear up the comment. It reads like more af a dig in than a clarification. I dont fundamentally think scotty is an anti-semite, just trying to draw attention to how the words matter. In any case happy to leave it there.
 
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