People trying to convert us to various alternative lifestyles

[moorey]

No not at all, I was just making sure there was no offense anywhere in there.
It's interesting to hear points of view on this subject.
Out of curiosity what's the deal with veg vs vegan while I understand the concept but would be interested to here a vegans view on the "free range" and no antibiotic or steroid ways of growth. While eating chicken etc is still the same principal of killing the chicken what's the general idea behind by products like cheeses eggs etc of these free. Range style foods?

Just interested to here the other sides point of view on them. I personally like the idea due to two reasons. 1. While free range is a bit misguided as thy are not entirely free it is still better for the animal and 2. Free range animals tend to be leaner contain more protien and are generally healthier...

In a nutshell, and personally speaking only, sure, true free range eggs are not something that worry me...I just happen to think that eating an egg is repulsive, lol. The official vegan line on it, I couldn't tell you. I don't live by anyones guidelines but my own. "free range" ain't that free and ranging, btw, but that's another matter http://m.smh.com.au/national/outrage-over-egg-industrys-definition-of-freerange-20110914-1k9r8.html
Freerange animals as food? Sure they may be happier when they're alive, but they're still being killed in their prime to be eaten. Better than factory farmed, but wrong still IMHO, and still repulses me to think about eating it.
Milk? Keeping a cow permanently lactating after taking its calves away at birth or soon after to become soft leather, veal and rennet. (you know what rennet is, right?)
Cheese? See milk and rennet.

Are you sitting down now though? Many vegans wouldn't accept me as a vegan.
I don't eat meat, dairy, gelatin etc. I don't wear leather, silk or wool, etc. I choose cruelty free toiletries and products etc yada yada....
But, I've started eating honey again in the last 12 months. I no longer think its an issue, and have recently learned that many vegans feel the same way.
Hypocrit? You decide. I'm at ease with it.

 

[Shredden]

I fucking love dairy products. They are like at least 1/3 of my life.

Meat wise, my whole family (parents and 2 sisters) are vegetarian. They never pushed it on me, and I made a decision on my own that I was going to eat meat. Having said that, after 16 years of having no meat served at home, I really dont enjoy it that much anymore, could happily be vegetarian aha.

Moorey, feel like eggs now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAiTOuSyJsQ

 

[driftking]

In a nutshell, and personally speaking only, sure, true free range eggs are not something that worry me...I just happen to think that eating an egg is repulsive, lol. The official vegan line on it, I couldn't tell you. I don't live by anyones guidelines but my own. "free range" ain't that free and ranging, btw, but that's another matter http://m.smh.com.au/national/outrage-over-egg-industrys-definition-of-freerange-20110914-1k9r8.html
Freerange animals as food? Sure they may be happier when they're alive, but they're still being killed in their prime to be eaten. Better than factory farmed, but wrong still IMHO, and still repulses me to think about eating it.
Milk? Keeping a cow permanently lactating after taking its calves away at birth or soon after to become soft leather, veal and rennet. (you know what rennet is, right?)
Cheese? See milk and rennet.

Are you sitting down now though? Many vegans wouldn't accept me as a vegan.
I don't eat meat, dairy, gelatin etc. I don't wear leather, silk or wool, etc. I choose cruelty free toiletries and products etc yada yada....
But, I've started eating honey again in the last 12 months. I no longer think its an issue, and have recently learned that many vegans feel the same way.
Hypocrit? You decide. I'm at ease with it.

Wow I never considered honey, How is honey seen in the eye of vegans, isn't honey the bees natural way of living?
Yeah free range is somewhat misleading. Free range Implies that they (stating the obvious) are free to do what they may in space. I remember seeing something on free range and while some do let them in barns of a decent size from what I remember for something to be considered free range it just needs to qualify for a specific size, so even caged animals can be considered free range....but that's a whole another topic.

Question to well anyone, with vegan diets they obviously are in regards to animals and their by products, while I understand that the following is quite different I will put the question forward.
So in terms of by products like eggs and cheese etc how does this vary between things like palm oil which is killing and causing harm to animals. While we don't eat these animals or use their by products is this something some vegans consider? It just seems like it might have some relation to the issue of animal cruelty?
While the lines of each individual are separate opinions, is there any reason why these other products that damage and cause harm to animals indirectly ie habitats destruction. Are not considered under a vegan style diet?


This is what happens when diet discussion pops up I love it and get almost to involved.

 

[bpow]

I dont eat red meat or dairy, never liked it and started this early, so no it wasnt a choice I made but my pallet just doesnt like it. I do eat a little chicken and fish but rarely. But after much reading (env science degree) I am glad I dont eat red meat, the amount of water for example used to produce grain feed beef is out of control. For some its not becoming a moral thing (dont want to kill a animal) but a ethical thing as In they want to provide a world for the future generations. Tofu can be just as bad as natural areas are/have been destroyed to plant soy. Some other vego products are no better.
Our food choices are going to get more important over time as our finite resources begin to dwindle.

 

[converge11]

another this is, some people just cant do the no meat thing. my mrs was a vego when i was, and the docs kept getting up her cause she was low in this, low in that ect....40 something kilos......she tried all the different foods to boost these things without having to take supplements but she was still the same. we went back to meat eating and she hasnt been hassled since. its just easier for our family to eat meat. a busy life with 3 kids (and one hates veggies....) and lots of hobbies, doesnt give us alot of time or money to cook good wholesome vego/vegan feeds. if i was single or had no kids i could happily eat less meat.




oh and the guy that though no honey was an odd vegan thing. some vegans will refuse antivenom if bitten by a snake, because they use the snakes venom to make it. (thats what my vegan mate told me anyways)

 

[mtb_ts]

With serving visitors, I would include alternatives if I knew anybody was coming, simply so they could feel relaxed and comfortable. I don't go to any great lengths to convert people about their food. I am not mean to people because of their choices, even if they have made flawed choices, or choices based on a political/ideological opinion or belief in a deity.

I am aware of the food supply chain and what goes on with industrial food, genetic modification, etc. I have in a former life worked (at the coalface) in various jobs in a couple of meat processing/packing facilities so I do know whats going on. It was quite an eye opener for a young person who did not hail from the humble origins of most of the others on the job, not just in the duties but in workplace culture.

I eat an omnivore diet, aim to include plenty of fibre, grain and vegetable. My food is not generally free-range, organic, non-gmo etc, largely because I am not a wealthy person. Was I wealthy, I would probably include some more of these. I will rarely eat a micky dee's meal and often it may be because its the most proximate and accessible choice when making one of my many interstate or other long road trips. They also have clean amenities and don't give me an odd look if I ask to use the toilet before spending any money like other country food outlet may do (and send me up the road to a rundown, seedy public toilet block).

I feel strongly about the marketing of fast food, soft drink and processed snack foods when its directly marketed to children. Fortunately except for a particular annual NSW South Coast triathlon event, these kind of businesses do not appear in sponsor lists at most bike events.

 

[BlakZ]

Just thought I would share my current situation + some ranting.....

My girlfriend is completely vegetarian. We dont live together (yet) but share many meals. Just to be clear I am the guy that would order the meat lovers pizza to eat by myself.

Talking about it and semi-argueing was second date material. It is not an issue.

I respect what she eats and she respects what I eat. I will never change what I eat to suit others, whether I am in there company or not. Vegetarians who don't like watching me eat meat can just leave or STFU. I don't want to talk about it...

As far as I'm concerned, I could just as legitimately say "I find NOT eating meat offensive" and choose some subjective reason for it. So I reckon there is a double standard/hypocritical nature to the issue ( This is the only thing that a vegetarian could do to annoy me - to somehow victimise me for my choices, when I could just as fairly say the same to them .. )

With my lady, we can make the same food together(she has no probs with the preparation etc..just doesnt want to eat it). Then we put on a fillet/schnitzel/something and put one on my plate and not hers. All stir fry's/stews/pastas can have the meat added last. I ofcourse am happy to eat vegetarian meals regularly. There is also the fake chicken stuff "quorn" which just trastes like chicken nuggets so that is fine for us both too. All in all we compromise for eachother.

 

[Trigger02]

I love meat but it is very bad if eaten too much, the colon will explode...... & Yeah i am always getting told to convert to a more non-violent, hipster, crap talking outlook on life but i would be in the stolen section too looking for my stolen bike, I always though Violence was the best theft deterent. Not 1 bike was ever, ever stolen from me in my home area and i have never ever locked it away, & i lived in Fairfield.... I will never be converted irate:

 

[ajay]

Just thought I would share my current situation + some ranting.....

My girlfriend is completely vegetarian. We dont live together (yet) but share many meals. Just to be clear I am the guy that would order the meat lovers pizza to eat by myself.

Talking about it and semi-argueing was second date material. It is not an issue.

I respect what she eats and she respects what I eat. I will never change what I eat to suit others, whether I am in there company or not. Vegetarians who don't like watching me eat meat can just leave or STFU. I don't want to talk about it...

As far as I'm concerned, I could just as legitimately say "I find NOT eating meat offensive" and choose some subjective reason for it. So I reckon there is a double standard/hypocritical nature to the issue ( This is the only thing that a vegetarian could do to annoy me - to somehow victimise me for my choices, when I could just as fairly say the same to them .. )

With my lady, we can make the same food together(she has no probs with the preparation etc..just doesnt want to eat it). Then we put on a fillet/schnitzel/something and put one on my plate and not hers. All stir fry's/stews/pastas can have the meat added last. I ofcourse am happy to eat vegetarian meals regularly. There is also the fake chicken stuff "quorn" which just trastes like chicken nuggets so that is fine for us both too. All in all we compromise for eachother.

If they try to get down your throat about buying (not killing your own in the wild) meat, politely (condescendingly) ask if they grow their own veges, then enjoy the awkward silence!

 

[moorey]

Wow I never considered honey, How is honey seen in the eye of vegans, isn't honey the bees natural way of living?
Yeah free range is somewhat misleading. Free range Implies that they (stating the obvious) are free to do what they may in space. I remember seeing something on free range and while some do let them in barns of a decent size from what I remember for something to be considered free range it just needs to qualify for a specific size, so even caged animals can be considered free range....but that's a whole another topic.

Question to well anyone, with vegan diets they obviously are in regards to animals and their by products, while I understand that the following is quite different I will put the question forward.
So in terms of by products like eggs and cheese etc how does this vary between things like palm oil which is killing and causing harm to animals. While we don't eat these animals or use their by products is this something some vegans consider? It just seems like it might have some relation to the issue of animal cruelty?
While the lines of each individual are separate opinions, is there any reason why these other products that damage and cause harm to animals indirectly ie habitats destruction. Are not considered under a vegan style diet?


This is what happens when diet discussion pops up I love it and get almost to involved.

So many grey areas, lol. Hardcore vegans even have to consider things like the use of bees to pollinate crops like almonds and many other fruiting trees. Bees are brought in especially for this, and if you are being hardcore, 'using' the bees renders the food off limits to them.
Honey collection is definitely an 'inconvenience', but shouldn't harm the bees (arguement could be applied to freerange eggs, but its a diffrent story with dairy)
Secondary harm to animals is sometimes overlooked i imagine, but something I do try to consider. That said, for me, veganism is about doing all that is PRACTICALLY possible, while still living a happy and fulfilling life. Its not a religion (some treat it as one), it isn't about perfection, and for me, will always have compromises. I have a quality down sleeping bag i bought years before becoming a vegan. I still use it, and its better than any synthetic stuff im aware of (which would no doubt have other petrochemical/environmantal related production issues anyway).
I have always found excellent alternatives to leather, but have unwittingly bought S/H cars over the years with things like leather steering wheel covers/gear stick covers. I wouldn't buy a NEW car with leather interior, or furniture for that matter.
Unrelated, but 'organic' isn't something that is all its cracked up to be. Generally, the production per acre is so much lower that more land is required and more water needed. Like veganism, in a perfect world, there wouldn't need to be compromises, but it isn't a perfect world.
Every step i take, i kill stuff. Everything i eat, kills stuff, every time i take medications, i kill stuff, every time i drive my car, i kill stuff, evertime i throw a log on the fire, i kill stuff.... I'm a killing machine, lol.

 

[moorey]

If they try to get down your throat about buying (not killing your own in the wild) meat, politely (condescendingly) ask if they grow their own veges, then enjoy the awkward silence!

Sorry Ajay, but thats a lame strawman arguement, that I don't think has and relevance to the issue. When you convince me that plants are sentient, i'll reconsider my statement

 

[Spike-X]

So many grey areas, lol. Hardcore vegans even have to consider things like the use of bees to pollinate crops like almonds and many other fruiting trees. Bees are brought in especially for this, and if you are being hardcore, 'using' the bees renders the food off limits to them.

What a bunch of fucking wankers.

I understand people wanting to leave as small a footprint on the world as possible, but there are seven billion people on this planet, and we're not going to be able to feed them all by foraging for nuts and berries in the forest. A certain amount of mass production of food is unavoidable.

 

[ajay]

Sorry Ajay, but thats a lame strawman arguement, that I don't think has and relevance to the issue. When you convince me that plants are sentient, i'll reconsider my statement

Indeed, and it outlines the argument it was countering, in an equally humerous manner :very_drunk:

 

[driftking]

I always understood that vegans and veg just limited things that were at the expense of animals who were miss treated. Ie the bee pollinating the flowers would be ok, I never knew it was a issue of "used" rather than "harmed". That is certainly a new idea of the concept. if some vegans subscribe to this idea, would they also not take a horse ride as the animal is being used or not drive cars due to the damage is causes to animals.

Interesting on where the line is drawn. I guess like most things there is no clear cut point of vegan rather where each individual's opinion on where it should be drawn

 

[ajay]

I always understood that vegans and veg just limited things that were at the expense of animals who were miss treated. Ie the bee pollinating the flowers would be ok, I never knew it was a issue of "used" rather than "harmed". That is certainly a new idea of the concept. if some vegans subscribe to this idea, would they also not take a horse ride as the animal is being used or not drive cars due to the damage is causes to animals.

Interesting on where the line is drawn. I guess like most things there is no clear cut point of vegan rather where each individual's opinion on where it should be drawn

Vegetarians eat vegetables, vegans don't eat/use animal products. It's pretty clear cut, but some people take it way too serisouly...

Oh, and a Vegetarian who eats fish, isn't a vegetarian.

 

[moorey]

What a bunch of fucking wankers.

I understand people wanting to leave as small a footprint on the world as possible, but there are seven billion people on this planet, and we're not going to be able to feed them all by foraging for nuts and berries in the forest. A certain amount of mass production of food is unavoidable.

I agre it's over the top, but I can respect their commitment.
That said....If you are concerned about feeding the billions, I'm sure there are better uses for the land than gourmet expensive low yielding, labour intensive nut trees.... Jus' say'n is all....

 

[moorey]

I love meat but it is very bad if eaten too much, the colon will explode...... & Yeah i am always getting told to convert to a more non-violent, hipster, crap talking outlook on life but i would be in the stolen section too looking for my stolen bike, I always though Violence was the best theft deterent. Not 1 bike was ever, ever stolen from me in my home area and i have never ever locked it away, & i lived in Fairfield.... I will never be converted irate:

WTF are you on/on about, ladder goat? I read that 7 times and still have no idea what your point is?

 

[Spike-X]

I agre it's over the top, but I can respect their commitment.
That said....If you are concerned about feeding the billions, I'm sure there are better uses for the land than gourmet expensive low yielding, labour intensive nut trees.... Jus' say'n is all....

No doubt.

 

[moorey]

Vegetarians eat vegetables dairy and egg, and wear wool, silk and leather (oversimplification, see ovo-vegetarian, lacto-vegetarian, ovo lacto-vegetarian), vegans don't eat/use animal products. It's pretty clear cut, but some people take it way too serisouly...

Oh, and a Vegetarian who eats fish, isn't a vegetarian.

^ this, with edit

 

[ajay]

^ this, with edit

Yeah sorry! I thought the vegetarian part was obvious