Metal Working! Fitting, Machining, Welding, Sheet and General Metal Fab
- Thread starter Urban DH
- Start date
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Yeah nah. That Porsche 968 that won outright is just bonkers. A 1.17 at SMSP is just otherworldly. I'd love to do some driver training with Barton Mawer.
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link1896
Mr Greenfield
The VR38DETT has iron applied to the blocks cylinder walls. Iron is vaporised and sprayed onto the bores, and is then sized and honed. The factory has three target bore diameters, 1 2 and 3.
On the back end of the block, facing upwards, on the driver's side, are the factory bore size designations. 111111,222222,333333 or any combination there of.
The iron coating method avoids iron cylinder sleeves, which brings cylinder spacings closer together, reducing block and crank lengths. Reduces static and dynamic weights, too. Allows for a closed deck block to be used too, which is critical for silly boosted applications.
Nissan claims the bore finish is good for 300k km.
Mercedes also uses vaporised iron cylinder lining treatment in some high end production blocks. Lots of secrecy, IP and special sauce around everyone's processes. By the sounds of it, Nissan flows powdered iron through an electrical arc generated plasma, where as Mercedes feeds two iron wires into an electrical arc running between the tips of the wires.
Iron deposited onto the cylinder bores is the go to method used by F1 engine builders.
Mercedes claims in a 6 cylinder passenger engine, with all other variables held constant, vapourised iron bore treatment saves 2.3L per 100km of fuel from reduced ring friction.
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On the back end of the block, facing upwards, on the driver's side, are the factory bore size designations. 111111,222222,333333 or any combination there of.
The iron coating method avoids iron cylinder sleeves, which brings cylinder spacings closer together, reducing block and crank lengths. Reduces static and dynamic weights, too. Allows for a closed deck block to be used too, which is critical for silly boosted applications.
Nissan claims the bore finish is good for 300k km.
Mercedes also uses vaporised iron cylinder lining treatment in some high end production blocks. Lots of secrecy, IP and special sauce around everyone's processes. By the sounds of it, Nissan flows powdered iron through an electrical arc generated plasma, where as Mercedes feeds two iron wires into an electrical arc running between the tips of the wires.
Iron deposited onto the cylinder bores is the go to method used by F1 engine builders.
Mercedes claims in a 6 cylinder passenger engine, with all other variables held constant, vapourised iron bore treatment saves 2.3L per 100km of fuel from reduced ring friction.
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Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Thanks Link, fingers crossed I've got a 222222 and the bores are intact after 65k kms.The VR38DETT has iron applied to the blocks cylinder walls. Iron is vaporised and sprayed onto the bores, and is then sized and honed. The factory has three target bore diameters, 1 2 and 3.
On the back end of the block, facing upwards, on the driver's side, are the factory bore size designations. 111111,222222,333333 or any combination there of.
The iron coating method avoids iron cylinder sleeves, which brings cylinder spacings closer together, reducing block and crank lengths. Reduces static and dynamic weights, too. Allows for a closed deck block to be used too, which is critical for silly boosted applications.
Nissan claims the bore finish is good for 300k km.
Mercedes also uses vaporised iron cylinder lining treatment in some high end production blocks. Lots of secrecy, IP and special sauce around everyone's processes. By the sounds of it, Nissan flows powdered iron through an electrical arc generated plasma, where as Mercedes feeds two iron wires into an electrical arc running between the tips of the wires.
Iron deposited onto the cylinder bores is the go to method used by F1 engine builders.
Mercedes claims in a 6 cylinder passenger engine, with all other variables held constant, vapourised iron bore treatment saves 2.3L per 100km of fuel from reduced ring friction.
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What's the process for matching up pistons to bores? I've seen coating mentioned to make clearances tighter, and I assume you machine the cylinder if the piston is oversize?
dazz
Downhill Dazz
Barton did a 1:17.860 in the RP968 and Tim a 1:25.926 in the Xtreme GTR, HUGE time gap between 1st and 3rd (outright).
Feeling pretty good about this as both those cars are running our trannies. Essentially the same sequential gear set in both cars but in very different configurations. Fantastic demonstration of how much power our trans will hold if the guy tuning the shift events understands the dynamics of what need's to happen mechanically.
Feeling pretty good about this as both those cars are running our trannies. Essentially the same sequential gear set in both cars but in very different configurations. Fantastic demonstration of how much power our trans will hold if the guy tuning the shift events understands the dynamics of what need's to happen mechanically.
You cannot machine oversize. The sprayed lining is very thin. Honing is ok but no machining. Not sure what the tolerances are... quite a few manufacturers have been doing these or a nickel silicone spray for ages. It is good juju.
Flow-Rider
Burner
They're all standard-size pistons, the pistons are to suit the variance in machined sizes of the bores, you have to resleeve with iron liners if you want to go to rebore to oversize pistons, and probably cheaper to buy a new engine block. Not ideal but you can get away with slight honing of the piston bores by the looks of it if the pistons are too big. Close to Half thousands of an inch difference in the piston sizes is nothing, you get more than that in wear over the life of the engine. Notice how the manely turbo tuff pistons come in one size.
I'd definitely get everything crack tested, they're known to pop pistons when over boosted, and everyone will wipe their hands of you because you supplied secondhand parts otherwise.
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Piston to bore can vary a few thou. Ring gaps are the most important bit. Filing ring gaps is great fun...
Flow-Rider
Burner
Modified Turboed engine with the extra heat if the clearances are too tight for the piston to bore, you have chance they can pickup on piston skirts, on the other side if too loose and you'll probably get some annoying piston rattle when cold, especially with forged short-skirted pistons.
Mattyp
Cows go boing
This..my brother in law is an engine builder, and says there is nothing worse than a customer who insists on sourcing their own shit off the internet... probably fine for a 200kw crumpadore. Start talking big boost and power and spending all that money to have a customer sourced part fail and put your name in the mud would be pretty shit.
Let your engine builder actually build your engine, or...do it yourself.
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Fair call, hopefully we can at least re-use the rods.
Flow-Rider
Burner
You really don't know what you have to work with until you pull the engine down either but you know the saying about the poor man doing things twice.
Flow-Rider
Burner
Have you asked if they'll warrant the work with the 2nd hand parts, I'd assumed you already had.
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Given it's a 15 year old car, I had assumed that the work wouldn't be warrantied only the failure of new parts. The block, ancillaries and most of the heads will be re-used, who knows what kind of shape they are in.
I did consider a crate engine, but I don't actually want big boost/power and the cost is prohibitive ($35k). I was just going to get a E85/FBO package done, but the early GTRs usually have cracked manifolds and it was cheaper for me to get my friends custom GT30s then to get the manifolds done and a new internal wastegate.
If I'm getting more responsive/bigger turbos, then I run into the 600 ft-lb limit on the rods. Which means I might as well get forged rods and pistons and the whole bottom end balanced to go to 8500 rpm. Etc etc etc.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the R35 has almost reached the end of it's run. More and more parts have been discontinued, e.g. HKS have just discontinued their R35 diff cooler. So I'm buying lots of high spec parts now and running the car in a relaxed tune, so it will last me the rest of my life.
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I did consider a crate engine, but I don't actually want big boost/power and the cost is prohibitive ($35k). I was just going to get a E85/FBO package done, but the early GTRs usually have cracked manifolds and it was cheaper for me to get my friends custom GT30s then to get the manifolds done and a new internal wastegate.
If I'm getting more responsive/bigger turbos, then I run into the 600 ft-lb limit on the rods. Which means I might as well get forged rods and pistons and the whole bottom end balanced to go to 8500 rpm. Etc etc etc.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the R35 has almost reached the end of it's run. More and more parts have been discontinued, e.g. HKS have just discontinued their R35 diff cooler. So I'm buying lots of high spec parts now and running the car in a relaxed tune, so it will last me the rest of my life.
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Flow-Rider
Burner
I'd expect some type of warranty on their workmanship, say for eg they didn't install a gudgeon pin clip properly on the piston and it lets go. Are they going to blame the secondhand piston or their work? I wouldn't expect catastrophic failure from redlining the car for the majority of its life to be covered.
You'd be able to adapt aftermarket diff coolers to work also.
dazz
Downhill Dazz
Engine was too embarrassed to be in that.
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Hold my beer!
That's a total cop magnet. I'm aiming for the exact opposite. I'm leaving the outside of the car totally stock.
The only external giveaways will be the intercooler and the rear diffuser.
Oh and the turbo era F1 exhaust note.
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link1896
Mr Greenfield
Years supply of rubber fits into one photo, I'm impressedHold my beer!
That's a total cop magnet. I'm aiming for the exact opposite. I'm leaving the car outside of car totally stock.
The only external giveaways will be the intercooler and the rear diffuser.
Oh and the turbo era F1 exhaust note.
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