What does "Riding to Heartrate" mean?
- Thread starter Misplaced
- Start date
Slowman
Likes Dirt
These days a lot of training plans are broken down into riding for amounts of time in heart rate zones E1, E2, E3 and the like. If you are racing then you generally have a max sustainable HR which you know exceeding will put you in the red and will cost you at some point. For road, tri and XC, most tri to stick to their aerobic threshold.
But that is so last year, every one is riding to power these days
But that is so last year, every one is riding to power these days
Ive only just been learning and using this, so Ill give you my take on it but Im prepared to be educated on it as well.
SLowman is right when he says you find your maximum sustainable heart rate, and work off this. Above this heart rate is where you will start dragging in big breaths and lactic acid starts to build up in the legs. Up here your energy use exponentially increases and you burn the Glycolic energy stored in your body very quickly. Not a good thing for enduros apparently.
I used the CTS field test to figure out my Maximum sustainable heart rate (MSR).
Find a flat road (or use your wind trainer) and after a 20 minute warm up with little spikes in power, do an 8 minute time trial. I.e., go as fast as you can sustain for 8 minutes. Start your heart rate monitor timer and gun it, sustainably. Get your average heart rate over the 8 minutes.
Have a rest for 10 minutes, easy peddling, then do it again. This is the last one, so give it all you have.
In the end, you will have 2 average heart rates, and the highest of these is the maximum sustainable heart rate. (MSR)?
For example, mine is 158 bpm.
It might be called your Aerobic Threshold, or lactic threshold, either way, once you know it, you will consistantly notice that when your heart rate hits it, your lungs and legs start to blow up.
What difference does it make? Well, when training, you work off this number to acheive different goals.
Hill climbs, maintaining your heart rate at +90% of your MSR is good for increasing aerobic fitness. In training I try to climb hills with my heart rate between 150 and 158 which is right on my max. The benefit is, I know not to go over 158 or I will be burning too much fuel, but at the same time, maximising my fitness. Perhaps its the most efficient way to get up the hill energy wise?
Doing interval training, which helps increase your lactic threshold, VO2 max, and other measures of power, you need to do intervals above this MSR. SO, for example, Im on a training regime where I do 2 sets of 3 x 2 minute intervals (Power intervals) with a 2 minute rest between reps, 10 minutes between sets. I need to have my HR above 158 for those 3 minute intervals. Its harder to do than you might think.
Etc etc, different training sessions targeting different strengths.
But again, why bother? You know when your body has reached max, and you probably already work to this. Well, for me, knowing I have an upper limit and that to do a 24hr I need to conserve Power, its good to get used to training at just below the MSR amd be alereted to times when it inevitably goes above this level (climbing).
Also, the longer endurance or tempo rides, where you try to keep at say 85% of MSR, really help to increase aerobic fitness without blowing up. I ride above 140 but below 150 for these long sustained periods.
Enough of my rant, but I am finding it very useful.
Hope that helps
Raf
SLowman is right when he says you find your maximum sustainable heart rate, and work off this. Above this heart rate is where you will start dragging in big breaths and lactic acid starts to build up in the legs. Up here your energy use exponentially increases and you burn the Glycolic energy stored in your body very quickly. Not a good thing for enduros apparently.
I used the CTS field test to figure out my Maximum sustainable heart rate (MSR).
Find a flat road (or use your wind trainer) and after a 20 minute warm up with little spikes in power, do an 8 minute time trial. I.e., go as fast as you can sustain for 8 minutes. Start your heart rate monitor timer and gun it, sustainably. Get your average heart rate over the 8 minutes.
Have a rest for 10 minutes, easy peddling, then do it again. This is the last one, so give it all you have.
In the end, you will have 2 average heart rates, and the highest of these is the maximum sustainable heart rate. (MSR)?
For example, mine is 158 bpm.
It might be called your Aerobic Threshold, or lactic threshold, either way, once you know it, you will consistantly notice that when your heart rate hits it, your lungs and legs start to blow up.
What difference does it make? Well, when training, you work off this number to acheive different goals.
Hill climbs, maintaining your heart rate at +90% of your MSR is good for increasing aerobic fitness. In training I try to climb hills with my heart rate between 150 and 158 which is right on my max. The benefit is, I know not to go over 158 or I will be burning too much fuel, but at the same time, maximising my fitness. Perhaps its the most efficient way to get up the hill energy wise?
Doing interval training, which helps increase your lactic threshold, VO2 max, and other measures of power, you need to do intervals above this MSR. SO, for example, Im on a training regime where I do 2 sets of 3 x 2 minute intervals (Power intervals) with a 2 minute rest between reps, 10 minutes between sets. I need to have my HR above 158 for those 3 minute intervals. Its harder to do than you might think.
Etc etc, different training sessions targeting different strengths.
But again, why bother? You know when your body has reached max, and you probably already work to this. Well, for me, knowing I have an upper limit and that to do a 24hr I need to conserve Power, its good to get used to training at just below the MSR amd be alereted to times when it inevitably goes above this level (climbing).
Also, the longer endurance or tempo rides, where you try to keep at say 85% of MSR, really help to increase aerobic fitness without blowing up. I ride above 140 but below 150 for these long sustained periods.
Enough of my rant, but I am finding it very useful.
Hope that helps
Raf
Last edited:
fezi
Likes Dirt
The above quote about power is too true. HR lags behind effort by some margin, so the below you probably find you
have pushed the 2 min effort out to 3 to 4 minutes to get to the desired HR for the desired time. Power based training is so much more accurate in the regard that you get to measure a lot more precisely. PS I'm a power convert
have pushed the 2 min effort out to 3 to 4 minutes to get to the desired HR for the desired time. Power based training is so much more accurate in the regard that you get to measure a lot more precisely. PS I'm a power convert
The biggest issue I have is every coach/expert/doctor etc has 10 different terms to descirbe their version of effort. ie threshold this threshold that E2 E3 etc. Find some terms you can easily remember so as not to confuse the issue.
bear the bear
Is a real bear
As the say goes..... "if you need to ask, you probably can't afford it"
Do a search for powermeters on here, I listed up some prices a while ago.
Do a search for powermeters on here, I listed up some prices a while ago.
jamespierce
Likes Dirt
HR has a fair lag while you are warming up, and for very short, very hard intervals. Beyond a few min, HR is basically a fine measure. Yes it can be impacted by heat, sickness, overtraining etc, but as a general rule it's a very solid way to train. Think of your HR as a laggy power meter, which you can buy for 1/20th of the price. A decent HR based plan will be better than most training, that most people get out and do. Only a power meter is better.
That book was a great Christmas present (well done mum).
I havent been able to do the whole 11 week program, but I was already in training for the Jet Black so assumed I was at about week 4 and went from there. My fitness is going through the roof, but then, it would have to, im riding 6 hours each weekend. Its good to have a program though.
Regarding lag, Fezi your dead right in my experience, the lag does occur. Takes me about 35 seconds to get the heart rate up to the desired level even though Ive been mashing the pedals at full power. I have found I very quickly understood my relative power output though, and know what kind of pressure i need to put down from the start. It also seems to have a similar lag on the back end as well.
Its funny with heart rate. Depending on fatigue, you can maintain a different MSR. Today I did hill climbs, and I was comfortably maintaining 158 for the whole climb, and a few spikes into the 160's didnt hurt too much. But last week I couldnt climb at more than 154 without feeling like popping. There are more than a few variables, and Im sure that a power meter would help me figure all this out.
Fun and games with toys.
Raf
I havent been able to do the whole 11 week program, but I was already in training for the Jet Black so assumed I was at about week 4 and went from there. My fitness is going through the roof, but then, it would have to, im riding 6 hours each weekend. Its good to have a program though.
Regarding lag, Fezi your dead right in my experience, the lag does occur. Takes me about 35 seconds to get the heart rate up to the desired level even though Ive been mashing the pedals at full power. I have found I very quickly understood my relative power output though, and know what kind of pressure i need to put down from the start. It also seems to have a similar lag on the back end as well.
Its funny with heart rate. Depending on fatigue, you can maintain a different MSR. Today I did hill climbs, and I was comfortably maintaining 158 for the whole climb, and a few spikes into the 160's didnt hurt too much. But last week I couldnt climb at more than 154 without feeling like popping. There are more than a few variables, and Im sure that a power meter would help me figure all this out.
Fun and games with toys.
Raf
Care to share which?
fezi
Likes Dirt
Thats the biggest problem with HR based training, lag and the fact that due to a myriad of reasons your HR doesn't always respond the same. Whereas a watt is a watt every time. Quick example, do a hill climb effort normally, then go pop a no-doze and repeat the same hill climb at the same perceived effort. HR will respond different in each effort all from 100mg of caffeine, do it with power as an indicator of effort and say the hill repeat was done at 330 watts, after dropping the pill the next repeat is still done at 330 watts, HR will differ but the same amount of work will be done.
Don't mis read me and think that I'm saying HR based training is garbage because its not, its just that power based training is a lot more specific and can be targeted so much more effectively.
Either way say hi when you pass me out at the 24,
wagga
Likes Bikes
Time Crunched Cyclist by Chris Carmichael.Care to share which?
Its designed to raise the fitness of cyclist with about 6 hrs per week of training. The training is an 11 week program designed for the rider to peak at 8 weeks for a race. It talks about diet and nutrition as well as riding to heart rate and power zones.
Great reading
I will be starting mine in Feb to Peak for the Wagga 6hr.
Daniel
Slowman
Likes Dirt
Yep you can take this to the bank and save yourself a heap of money until powermeters become more affordable. At the moment there are 2 main types SRM which is a device incorporated into the cranks or a Powertap hub. Either way think of spending 3-4 large.
Anyway as already said HR does lag behind power but for all but the most intense intervals, precisely structured training programmes, or high level TT racing, using HR will suffice.
The other problem with power, the first being the expense, is that it works only on the bike and even then it is not very portable. If you use a PowerTap hub for training put your race wheels on and now you've got nothing. Same with the SRM, you can swap wheels but not bikes. If you do a few adventure or multisport races, there is no power for kayaking, running or swimming. If you just ride that won't matter to you but it will cost you a pretty penny to cover all your situations where you might want it.
Oh this term MSR, I'm sorry I said it now, the term used in the sport science crowd is AeT (aerobic threshold) it is a more precise term, when I said maximum sustainable rate that was in the context of an endurance type distance, someone then came up with the acronym MSR but the problem here is it would be different if you were a track rider doing the kilo or even a 200m sprint whereas AeT will always mean maximum sustainable rate for endurance.
Last edited:
bear the bear
Is a real bear
Aerobic threshold is a myth and has no absolute physiological definition.....
bear the bear
Is a real bear
wolfjjj
Likes Dirt
No physiological definition ... not the point where lactic acid is building up quicker than it can be removed?