Suspension gurus, your advice please.

[blacksp20]

I own a 2011 Yeti 575 and have been fairly happy with it except for pedal bob and mid travel support. I have had the factory RP23 tuned by Avalanche to get more compression damping at the expense of propedal, which I've never found to work properly even after servicing. Since the tune it's good for jumps and small drops but it still bobs under pedalling and wallows in the midrange unless I put extra air pressure in, but that messes up the small bump compliance.

I am a clyde at 115kg and I usually run 260psi for about 25-30% sag. Now I've scoured the Yeti forums on MTBR but most 575 riders haven't messed around with their shocks and the rest have move on to other frame designs.

I've found a leverage curve which shows a regressive to progressive line through the travel.
http://m.vitalmtb.com/photos/featur...ti-SB-66-Leverage-Ratio-Curve,21268/sspomer,2

From what I can gather, a coil would be terrible for this style of suspension. Cane Creek shocks don't fit, I'm guessing due to the dogbone. I investigated the larger volume air cans but realised that I would have to increase air pressure by 20-30% from the reports of other users with them, which would put me past the safe useable pressure of the can.

Can anyone suggest a shock that could work with my frame? I've been looking at Monarch+ but I'm not sure if the claimed mid support they have would be enough for me.

Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[moorey]

Can't comment on your particular situation, but got a lot of time lately for the Monarchs. Rode a mates Friday, and got a plus coming on the frame I've just bought. Anything will be better than even a tuned rp23 or ctd. I'm still loving the dhx air 5's I run on 2 bikes, and a ccdba on another, but can't wait to get rid of the 'custom tuned' rp23 on my element. What e2e and stroke do you need?
*disclaimer...I'm 80 max with kit and water, but the old dhx's are so tunable, if you can find a loaner, worth trying.

 

[blacksp20]

The 575 runs a 200x51. Bit of an annoying size as most shocks tend to be 200x57 or bigger.

What frame did you try with the monarch on it?

 

[moorey]

The 575 runs a 200x51. Bit of an annoying size as most shocks tend to be 200x57 or bigger.

What frame did you try with the monarch on it?

Focus spine, mine will be on an alpine. I've had monarch 4.2's back in the day, and always preferred them to the fox equivalent.
Yes, a bit harder size in a beefier shock. My CCDBA and dhx are all 200x57. Have you de-aired and fully compressed to see if the extra 6mm will cause an issue. Not sure of your ratios, but that will be another 15mm or so of wheel travel. I'm sure I have a 200x57 dhx air 5 hanging in the shed if you wanted to test.

 

[moorey]

 

[shake_rattle_and_ roll]

Plenty of up-sides to the Monarch+. Won't go so far as to say it'll sort out all of your issues, but you do get a significant amount of "tuneability" with them thanks to being able to install RS' volume reducers to improve the support in the mid & end stroke of the shock- they make a HUGE difference. Bought a set of RS reducer bands (come in a packet of 5) & from recollection they were circa $30. Installed 3 of the reducers in my Monarch RC3+ Debonaire & it was a big improvement on what was already a good shock out of the box. I weigh 92-3kgs watered & spared.

Given you've got the sag set up just how you like, sadly I think the answer to the pedal bob lies somewhere between a new shock, refining your pedaling technique & potentially shedding any spare/excess weight (& I don't mean that at all unkindly blacksp20).

For what it's worth, having owned one before, the RP23s are an absolute POS compared their equivalent competition in the market- I wouldn't piss on it if it was on fire.

 

[Miguel75]

... I weigh 923kgs watered & spared.

freak nasty... You might want to lay off the water

 

[shake_rattle_and_ roll]

freak nasty... You might want to lay off the water

Hahaha- whoooops. Amended.

 

[Flow-Rider]

As others have said get rid of the RP23, I went from a RP2 to RS RT3 plus to a foxfloat-X evol air can. I only went Fox because it came up cheap and the tune was suited to my frame. The pedal and trail platform is excellent after changing the volume spacers but open is horrific, blows through the travel way too easy. Going to higher pressures or bigger volume spacers makes the plush feel go away. I would suggest to give the Rockshox Monarch debonair a go.

 

[ForkinGreat]

The 575 runs a 200x51. Bit of an annoying size as most shocks tend to be 200x57 or bigger.

What frame did you try with the monarch on it?

just a heads up, Plankosaurus has a Monarch 200 x 51 in the Garage sale section. could be worth a go... :thumb:

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/sho...-cranks-some-pedals-amp-a-whole-bunch-of-junk

 

[The Duckmeister]

Yep, not at all intending to sound nasty, you're simply too big for the Fox; just something about their damper guts makes them really only work for sub-75kg riders.

 

[Plankosaurus]

just a heads up, Plankosaurus has a Monarch 200 x 51 in the Garage sale section. could be worth a go... :thumb:

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/sho...-cranks-some-pedals-amp-a-whole-bunch-of-junk

Thanks Forkin

it is minus the plus, but its the right size and wont cost you an arm and a leg to try out. for what its worth, i like it a lot better than the rp23 i got with the bike (titus rockstar), but that might be me just justifying spending money on my bike and enjoying a platform lever that does something

from the garage sale:

Item: ADDED - RS Monarch RT 200mmx51mm rear shock
Item Condition: used, but not for long
Reason for selling: bike takes 200x57, i want my 5mm
Price and price conditions: would like a swap for a decent 190mm shock with lockout, but otherwise, $80
Extra Info: minor mark on shaft that wasn't there before i removed it, must have dropped something on it also i had taken the sticker off because yellow didn't suit my bike, one edge doesn't want to stick back down
Pictures: Yup!!!!!!!!

 

[blacksp20]

Thanks for all the replies blokes.

No offense taken re: my weight. Yes I'm a clyde, but I'm also 6'6" so I'm not too far over optimal.

I will reword my initial posting, the pedal bob isn't the big issue. It only compresses a few millimeters when pedaling, it's more the dive that the rear end takes when I hit a small-medium bump while seated climbing. I stall quite often on climbs due to the rear just bogging down and I lose all forward momentum. It was much worse on my old Jamis Dakar XAM but the Yeti is still good for it. I put it down to the leverage ratio increasing from 2.4-3.0 as the travel gets to roughly the mid point. I could overcome this slightly with more pressure and thus less sag but I feel that low speed compression damping really needs to be increased to properly improve this.

Moorey: I will drop the air from the shock and see if it's at all possible to fit your DHX but I think the brace between the seat stays will foul on the seat tube.

I have already had a look at Plankosauruses shock and checked out the suspension curves for the frame it came off but it is only a light compression tune and will be incompatible with my frame. I will smash through the light compression tune and be bottoming everywhere. I thought about buying it and a piston kit but they are over $100 and I'd have to pay for someone to fit it.

Does anyone have a Monarch+ on a frame with a 3:1 leverage ratio? Or even on a frame that has a digressive to progressive suspension curve? Possibly a VPP bike, I believe that are similar in their design. If you have, please chime in with some info.

 

[Plankosaurus]

Completely forgot about that conversation

the things not doing anything at the moment and doesn't look like moving any time soon, if you want to pay for postage just to try it out i'm happy to send it on up. its definitely a different animal to the RP23...

 

[blacksp20]

Have you de-aired and fully compressed to see if the extra 6mm will cause an issue. Not sure of your ratios, but that will be another 15mm or so of wheel travel. I'm sure I have a 200x57 dhx air 5 hanging in the shed if you wanted to test.

Thanks for the offer but it definitely will not take another 6mm of shock travel. The seat tube only has 4-5mm of clearance from the brace between the seat stays and full compression

 

[blacksp20]

Completely forgot about that conversation

the things not doing anything at the moment and doesn't look like moving any time soon, if you want to pay for postage just to try it out i'm happy to send it on up. its definitely a different animal to the RP23...

Thanks for the awesome offer but I really think it will be a fruitless endeavour. Light comp tune will blow through with my weight and the frames leverage ratio.

I recall reading somewhere that for a monarch+ it is recommended to have a high comp tune for a 3:1 ratio frame so I'd have to think it would be pretty much the same for a regular monarch.

 

[ekwok]

Not sure how well a DB inline will work with your weight (reports have suggested that the damping struggles with high psi). Have one on my trance (trance runs a 200x51), very tunable (about 85-90 geared up). Got 12 strips of volume spacers out of a max of 15 in mine and it ramps up nicely. It bottoms out but I never feel it. Can use the LSC to tune out some of the bob. There's also a climb switch which works really well. Might be worth a chat with ns dynamic to see if the shock is suitable.

 

[blacksp20]

Might be worth a chat with ns dynamic to see if the shock is suitable.

Thanks for the info but they do not fit as I mentioned in my original post. Nothing from Cane Creek does and I have confirmed that with them. I think it has to do with the dogbone link fouling on the adjustment knobs and/or piggyback at the back of their shocks. CC shocks seem to have used up all available real estate around the eyelets.

I too have read that they don't work well with high air can pressures, making them doubly unusable for me.

 

[rowdyflat]

I changed my shock on my Santa Cruz from Fox to RS Monarch courtesy of Boomking .
it was 200x57 not 200x51 so I just put some fibre 2.5 mm washers in the aircan as shims it works well to stop rear tyre buzz.
The monarch has much better compression dampening than Fox IMHO .

 

[blacksp20]

I changed my shock on my Santa Cruz from Fox to RS Monarch courtesy of Boomking .
it was 200x57 not 200x51 so I just put some fibre 2.5 mm washers in the aircan as shims it works well to stop rear tyre buzz.
The monarch has much better compression dampening than Fox IMHO .

So you just reduced the travel by putting washers on the shaft inside the air can? Noticed any issues with doing that?