Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

[Squidfayce]

Australia is a fairly lucky place to live because it's a relatively new nation with a very small population, if you want to see proof of what uncontrolled pollution looks like over many years, just look at places like China, they even need to outsource their drinking water because everything is so polluted over there. Proof is all there in front of us, look harder, and you'll see it. To reverse pollution, it will take 1000's of years if they were to stop at this very point.


View attachment 382663

yeah china. Also some of the ewaste dumps i think in bangladesh? pretty horrific.

Though I'm not arguing for proof of polution, I was just hypothesizing whether the alarmist language and failed predictions has hurt the cause. I agree there are places in the world no one will be able to live anymore that we just cant fix regardless what we do about it.

 

[Squidfayce]

See previous point about discussion and presentation of such predictions not including the uncertainties and caveats attached to any model…

AKA dont let the truth get in the way of a good yarn. I guess there was a commercial point to making the film too. Uncertainties, maybes and wide spreads dont make for compelling viewing.

 

[Haakon]

AKA dont let the truth get in the way of a good yarn. I guess there was a commercial point to making the film too. Uncertainties, maybes and wide spreads dont make for compelling viewing.

Pretty much. But if you know how to read models, you can see a pretty clear picture emerge despite the uncertainties. The yarn itself wasnt wrong.

Ie - we is proper fucked. Go and read up on Thwaites Glacier and all the recent research by British glaciologists.

 

[Squidfayce]

Go and read up on Thwaites Glacier and all the recent research by British glaciologists.

Ohhh doomsday glacier. sounds promising!

 

[Scotty T]

I came across a meme today that listed out all our failed cataclysmic climate predictions over the last 50 or so years. All alarmist.

I came across a meme too. It was bullshit.

there was a prediction specifically made in that film that the arctic would be Ice Free by 2013. Clearly that hasn't happened.
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/arctic-sea-ice/

Fact Check-Al Gore did not ‘predict’ ice caps melting by 2013 but misrepresented data

A 2009 comment by former U.S. vice president Al Gore that the North Pole would be ice-free by summer 2013 has gone viral in tandem with COP26 climate talks in Glasgow. The quote has been used to claim he made bogus predictions. While he did say something similar, the claim...

www.reuters.com

Yes it was a misrepresentation of something a scientist said rather than a specific study, however also: Gore said studies suggested “in the next 50 to 70 years in summertime [the Arctic ice cap] will be completely gone” which looks pretty realistic given the current science.

So I done my research and...

Famine 1975: a singular newspaper article quoting a single professor is cited, no study or peer review. Also had nothing to do with climate change, it was about overpopulation and ability to feed as many people as we do now.

Maldives under water: A single aricle in the Canberra Times, again no study quoted, one person saying the next 20-40 years. They were planning a study.

The three things you quote from your meme are bullshit, they are cherry picked newspaper articles and a single line in a single doco. Most of the language from the actual studies has not changed. Like all science where they found new information they updated the predictions and if you take the time to look around at reputable sources quoting the peer reviewed studies, you'll find almost all of it tracks pretty accurately with what is going on.

Start here if you want to know what the peer reviewed science says about climate myths commonly found in memes: https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php

 

[Squidfayce]

I came across a meme too. It was bullshit.

Fact Check-Al Gore did not ‘predict’ ice caps melting by 2013 but misrepresented data

A 2009 comment by former U.S. vice president Al Gore that the North Pole would be ice-free by summer 2013 has gone viral in tandem with COP26 climate talks in Glasgow. The quote has been used to claim he made bogus predictions. While he did say something similar, the claim...

www.reuters.com

Yes it was a misrepresentation of something a scientist said rather than a specific study, however also: Gore said studies suggested “in the next 50 to 70 years in summertime [the Arctic ice cap] will be completely gone” which looks pretty realistic given the current science.

So I done my research and...

Famine 1975: a singular newspaper article quoting a single professor is cited, no study or peer review. Also had nothing to do with climate change, it was about overpopulation and ability to feed as many people as we do now.

Maldives under water: A single aricle in the Canberra Times, again no study quoted, one person saying the next 20-40 years. They were planning a study.

The three things you quote from your meme are bullshit, they are cherry picked newspaper articles and a single line in a single doco. Most of the language from the actual studies has not changed. Like all science where they found new information they updated the predictions and if you take the time to look around at reputable sources quoting the peer reviewed studies, you'll find almost all of it tracks pretty accurately with what is going on.

Start here if you want to know what the peer reviewed science says about climate myths commonly found in memes: https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Thanks but you must have missed the section where I said I took the meme with a grain of salt (as these things deserve) and then missed the observation I was making/ thought process i was trying to question.

For your benefit, the question was "has the alarmist language used in all sorts of cataclysmic predictions that didn't come true influence the progress we've made towards dealing with the problem?". The question arose from observing how my feeling has gone from dumbfounded astonished anxiety about it all to relative calm "meh, it'll get sorted out".

Not questioning science, just describing the thought process I went through.

You'll excuse me for not recalling the exact wording from a film I saw in 2006.

 

[Haakon]

You'll excuse me for not recalling the exact wording from a film I saw in 2006.

I dunno, sounds like a good reason for some serious flaming

 

[rockmoose]

Thanks but you must have missed the section where I said I took the meme with a grain of salt (as these things deserve) and then missed the observation I was making/ thought process i was trying to question.

For your benefit, the question was "has the alarmist language used in all sorts of cataclysmic predictions that didn't come true influence the progress we've made towards dealing with the problem?". The question arose from observing how my feeling has gone from dumbfounded astonished anxiety about it all to relative calm "meh, it'll get sorted out".

Not questioning science, just describing the thought process I went through.

You'll excuse me for not recalling the exact wording from a film I saw in 2006.

I think a lot of people have been tricked, or fatigued into thinking that way.

We are already experiencing feedback loops. Once we get some serious versions of these, and all the world's billions say "shit, we better do something about this", before realising we can't, it's too far gone, the planet is going to be a pretty scary place to be........ for the short time that we are, anyway.

 

[Scotty T]

I dunno, sounds like a good reason for some serious flaming

For your benefit, the question was "has the alarmist language used in all sorts of cataclysmic predictions that didn't come true influence the progress we've made towards dealing with the problem?". The question arose from observing how my feeling has gone from dumbfounded astonished anxiety about it all to relative calm "meh, it'll get sorted out".

Everyone knows the Al Gore stuff and how he's been flamed for it, but the other two about famine and Maldives I had not heard and turns out they are all a beat up. I don't agree that these three predictions (or all the other ones I found on the page with the two I hadn't seen) have gained widespread enough attention to influence anyone but those who weren't already looking for an excuse not to act.

The language from the science remains the same and in some quarters (eg. Murdoch papers) is changing to more alarmist than it ever was before. You should still be alarmed, I don't see any material coming out giving me the impression "meh" and as the science gathers more info it becomes more alarming, apart from the occasional meme and our governments tech solution.

 

[Scotty T]

I think a lot of people have been tricked, or fatigued into thinking that way.

It's roughly in the 20-30% range in Australia for people not thinking it's a problem needing immediate action.

If Australia were 100 people, here's where we'd stand on climate change

If Australia were 100 people, 84 of us would want action on climate change. So who are the other 16?

www.abc.net.au

Edit: not

 

[DuncanJenkins]

I think a lot of people have been tricked, or fatigued into thinking that way.

We are already experiencing feedback loops. Once we get some serious versions of these, and all the world's billions say "shit, we better do something about this", before realising we can't, it's too far gone, the planet is going to be a pretty scary place to be........ for the short time that we are, anyway.

And for the short time we have left to enjoy the planet, there's a bastard tyre shortage..

 

[Squidfayce]

I think a lot of people have been tricked, or fatigued into thinking that way.

We are already experiencing feedback loops. Once we get some serious versions of these, and all the world's billions say "shit, we better do something about this", before realising we can't, it's too far gone, the planet is going to be a pretty scary place to be........ for the short time that we are, anyway.

yeah this is a good way of putting it. Fatigued is pretty accurate - we see that with covid and thats only been last 2 years

 

[Squidfayce]

Everyone knows the Al Gore stuff and how he's been flamed for it, but the other two about famine and Maldives I had not heard and turns out they are all a beat up. I don't agree that these three predictions (or all the other ones I found on the page with the two I hadn't seen) have gained widespread enough attention to influence anyone but those who weren't already looking for an excuse not to act.

The language from the science remains the same and in some quarters (eg. Murdoch papers) is changing to more alarmist than it ever was before. You should still be alarmed, I don't see any material coming out giving me the impression "meh" and as the science gathers more info it becomes more alarming, apart from the occasional meme and our governments tech solution.

i chose those two from the lot because they were alarmist

Im not suggesting the material coming out gives the impression of "meh" but the onslaught of alarmist material and confirmation bias experienced by failed alarmist predictions makes ME "feel" meh about it all. Was just a self critical observation that I wondered if it could be extrapolated to our leaders in a general context.

I actually do think technology is the answer, but as to what and when, I'm in the same boat as the govt (ie - no clue).

At the moment, meaningful actions seem to be in the realm of meaningful reductions in taxation revenue for the govt. I think if you polled general Australians and asked them if they were willing to pay more tax, my guess would be a resounding "no".

 

[DuncanJenkins]

I actually do think technology is the answer

Paring down our choices and not consuming so much meaningless shit are also answers.

Facebook's Meta announcement has me in equal measures of despair and rejoice. Despair because we have a real world full of wonder out there. Rejoice because it could mean more people stop collecting meaningless physical things that further pollute the world.

 

[Squidfayce]

Paring down our choices and not consuming so much meaningless shit are also answers.

Facebook's Meta announcement has me in equal measures of despair and rejoice. Despair because we have a real world full of wonder out there. Rejoice because it could mean more people stop collecting meaningless physical things that further pollute the world.

Consume less? Burn the witch!

People getting stuck In meta aren't the people that will be enjoying the great outdoors IMO.

Meta has already made the comment that the younger audience is the "North star" and will focus less on integrating older users or something to that effect.

People will just shift their consumptive habits to the virtual environment if metals vision takes off. We already see this with usless micro transactions in games. People pay fortunes for silly hats in game.

I'm not sure Zuck's vision will take off, but I've litterally been wrong about every App ever, every stupid online idea (online shopping, streaming, bitcoin).....hmmm maybe I should just buy stock in everything that I think is stupid and get rich.

I hope it doesn't take off. The guy is responsible for so much hate, heartbreak and mental health issues that I sort of hope he puts all his eggs in one basket and drops them.

 

[Haakon]

I think a lot of people have been tricked, or fatigued into thinking that way.

We are already experiencing feedback loops. Once we get some serious versions of these, and all the world's billions say "shit, we better do something about this", before realising we can't, it's too far gone, the planet is going to be a pretty scary place to be........ for the short time that we are, anyway.

I've seen some credible work done 10 years ago that saw climate signals in Victoria rainfall data as early as the 1930s. Feedback loops have been ramping up for decades, and really by definition as soon as the first one starts up its too late...

A few years ago I'd have said at least i wont see too much in my lifetime despite the inevitability of it all going to shit, but have changed my tune on that one as its snowballing a shit tonne faster than feared. Next few decades will be "interesting"....

 

[Haakon]

i chose those two from the lot because they were alarmist

Im not suggesting the material coming out gives the impression of "meh" but the onslaught of alarmist material and confirmation bias experienced by failed alarmist predictions makes ME "feel" meh about it all. Was just a self critical observation that I wondered if it could be extrapolated to our leaders in a general context.

I actually do think technology is the answer, but as to what and when, I'm in the same boat as the govt (ie - no clue).

At the moment, meaningful actions seem to be in the realm of meaningful reductions in taxation revenue for the govt. I think if you polled general Australians and asked them if they were willing to pay more tax, my guess would be a resounding "no".

There is no alarmist material. I wish there were - the so called "alarmist" material you refer to still massively underplays how fucked we are.

There should be a lot of genuinely alarmist material - it is in fact very fucking alarming. Suggesting we can save the situation is counter productive, but unfortunately climate scientists have to remain "optimistic" in order to get the great unwashed to at least not do nothing.

As a service to my fellow burners, I will give the real story - we is all fucked and humanity may very well not survive the next few centuries. But lets have a crack at minimising the damage and buy Elon some time to sort out the Mars colony. There is a zero chance that any of the future generations will enjoy the bounties and luxury of the stable and comfortable planet our forebears had.

 

[Haakon]

Consume less? Burn the witch!

People getting stuck In meta aren't the people that will be enjoying the great outdoors IMO.

Meta has already made the comment that the younger audience is the "North star" and will focus less on integrating older users or something to that effect.

People will just shift their consumptive habits to the virtual environment if metals vision takes off. We already see this with usless micro transactions in games. People pay fortunes for silly hats in game.

I'm not sure Zuck's vision will take off, but I've litterally been wrong about every App ever, every stupid online idea (online shopping, streaming, bitcoin).....hmmm maybe I should just buy stock in everything that I think is stupid and get rich.

I hope it doesn't take off. The guy is responsible for so much hate, heartbreak and mental health issues that I sort of hope he puts all his eggs in one basket and drops them.

Go back in time and knock off Hitler, Rupert and Zuckerburg - three measly bullets for some much gain... Mind you, Murphy is a bitch and would probably throw up something worse.

 

[Squidfayce]

Also choice is what we as humans want. Meaning of the shit we buy is subjective. It makes us feel good (most of the time).

I've seen some credible work done 10 years ago that saw climate signals in Victoria rainfall data as early as the 1930s. Feedback loops have been ramping up for decades, and really by definition as soon as the first one starts up its too late...

A few years ago I'd have said at least i wont see too much in my lifetime despite the inevitability of it all going to shit, but have changed my tune on that one as its snowballing a shit tonne faster than feared. Next few decades will be "interesting"....

So....consume with abandon? Not having kids is paying off

 

[Squidfayce]

As a service to my fellow burners, I will give the real story - we is all fucked and humanity may very well not survive the next few centuries.

Centuries? Sounds like not a me problem.