Our rotten healthcare system.

[pink poodle]

Why is this not regulated

You filthy low down dirty commie scum bag...we can thank our greedy selves and "leaders" like John Howard for this shit show. People have swallowed the lie of choice wholeheartedly in exchange for equality.

Here's what Regan had to say on the filthy notion of socialist health care...obviously a little different in the USA than Australia, but still quite similar at the same time.

 

[ashes_mtb]

When circumstances allow, shopping around makes an enormous difference to the cost. Unfortunately not always possible as we found out with the birth of first child in emergency situation where the anesthetist rostered at the time wasn't a preferred provider with HBF and what would have been fully covered turned into a $3k bill.

I think health services should be covered by government as an essential service but I pay for private as I've seen enough examples of better care in the private sector to convince me the cost of worth it.

Example one was again the birth of our first child. Private (nfp) hospital was happy for us to stay until we were confident to go home given it was a traumatic birth. Baby was clear to go home but we stayed 7 days. In that time there was an unanticipated complication and allowing us to stay may have been the difference between a good and bad outcome.

Other example was my grandfather having a significant heart attack. Initially was in a public hospital. Initial emergency care was great, but after he survived and moved to the recovery ward he dropped his bundle and refused to eat and slowly began to deteriorate. Attitude in the hospital was essentially we don't have time to be with him round to clock and force him to eat and have other people that need the bed. We managed to get him transferred to a private hospital: on arrival they warned us he was probably days away from dying with the condition he was in, but they worked so hard on him and managed to turn him around to the point he eventually made a full recovery.

I've experienced really good care in the public system too, but have been glad to have the option of private.

 

[born-again-biker]

Everyone one those doctors, as a consultant, are almost fifteen years in the making for the specialist qualification.

MBBS is a 6 year undergrad and a 4-5 year post-grad (depending on the UNI), and that gets you to residency, basic RMO doing rotations.
For most specialty programs, you then have at least two years worth of RMO work before you can apply. Once there, you have to make it through the specialty program, for a FRACS and FRANZCA there are another 5-6 years on their separate registrar programs (competitive years at that!!) and also include a fellowship year before qualification, and some very expensive exams to sit over that time...and college fees...and liability insurance and public indemnity...and study. That's before you even mention the shift work those two specialties are notorious for.

So usually, even if you started your training early, and depending on the specialist program you enroll into, you'll be late twenties to mid thirties before you're fully qualified and achieve any solid earning potential, and the first thing it goes towards is clearing a substantial debt for the training you've done. They then have their triennial reassessment to maintain qualification, the college fees don't end.

Most of them have worked many years in the public system before going into private to help clear debts and set up superannuation as well. I don't know any doctors who have gone into the profession for the money, that's not to say they don't exist, but I don't know any.

If you don't want to pay private, go through the public system. Personally, a $2500 out of pocket and being able to choose my own surgeon is a price I'd pay happily. I don't begrudge the system, there's a good mix of private/public sector in our system and it makes sense. I'm more pissed that nobody has gone back and fixed the PBS, because that gatekeeper system has become so fucking bloated and doesn't allow for bidding. There are substantial costs that can be saved with a few sensible tweaks to that, and nobody is doing it.

Oh please.
The "poor little doctors" Zaf?
What bubble are you living in.
Specialists drive $400,000 dollar cars. Specialists have a lodge in Aspen. We all know which suburbs they live in and how big their property portfolios are.
I'm not discounting their level of commitment. I'm not discounting their hard work. I'm grateful for their expertise. I'm grateful for their low rates of mistake.
But how much money is enough Zaf?
If my daughter needed brain surgery, or she had leukemia or something else of that nature, then my expectation of costs would be different.
(I still think a good public system should be able to cover most of that.....but I digress....)

How much after-tax profit is enough for Bupa/NIB/St Lukes/Medibank Private etc etc ??

One of my best mates' wife is currently putting the finishing touches on her medical study. She is now an anaesthetist. I was the best man at their wedding. I'm happy for her career. Has it been super difficult for her? Yeah....a bit. But not like a coal miner. Has she worked hard? Sure, but the government has paid for a lot of her training through scholarships and various free-kicks. Has she really had to struggle and fight and grind her way to the job? Not to the extent you're advocating mate. Plenty of ducks were lined up for her through family connections and sympathetic hospital managers. She deserves to do well - she does not deserve to charge whatever the fuck she feels like charging....unless the public system is a viable alternative.
Yeah, yeah...I know...she's a sample study of one.

I'm a specialist too mate. I'm tertiary educated. I have revalidation courses every 5 years. I work brutal shift rotations, away from my family. My work represents a serious risk to my health every single time I show up. We have machinery and systems that can kill everyone onboard and most of the surrounding dock in one swift explosion. I'm paid a good wage for sure. Better than most. But fuck me, I know a scam when I smell one.

All I'm asking for is to be able to book my daughter into OUR public system and receive an outcome within a few weeks. Why is the wait time 12 months when we are all paying relatively high rates of tax?

 

[born-again-biker]

Ours doesn't include extras for that price. What does your policy actually cover? It sounds like one of those junk policies that cover nothing except removing the surcharge requirement.

You're probably right. But you're also missing the main point of my post.

 

[born-again-biker]

Oh, and you should be able to see another specialist to see if they will do it cheaper.

Yep, did that.
Slightly cheaper....but earliest possible date for consultation (that's not even the surgery) is May 9th !!

 

[Skydome]

And fuck you Howard for designing a tax system that forces people to take out priavate health insurance once you earn over a certain amount. Artificially inflates the rate of take up.

wait you're forced to buy private health if your income goes over a certain point? I thought you had the choice and all that happens is you pay a higher levy or something?

 

[born-again-biker]

As others have said the $150 p/m is bloody low for family cover so I'm not surprised the OP is getting screwed. However I agreed with the sentiments of it being a shit system. Having lived in the UK for a long time every paycheck had a solid sacrifice to the NHS, but the benefit was that you knew that when something went wrong you weren't going to be forking out. That is the definition of insurance to me. Mind you, we had one child in the UK, and one in the public system here, and the Australian experience shat from a mile high over the delights of the Paisley maternity ward. There's also been several surgeries for the wife and kids which have gone generally swimmingly, although the major frustration is you never seem to know exactly how much you are going to cough up.

The bottom line is if you get a bit sick here you fork out a minimal amount, or if you are really in trouble everything is covered. Everything in between is going to cost, which is pretty fucked really.

My sister is a health care bureaucrat / project manager.
She worked for the NHS in London for about 10 years at a pretty high level of responsibility.
She is now working for an NGO in Sydney doing similar work with funding for various programs/schemes/initiatives etc.
Her opinion of the Australian system is very poor compared to the NHS. Something along the lines of "....being 20 years behind the UK in terms of data and efficiency..."
My experience of the public system here with the birth of both my kids was absolutely excellent.
But a maternity ward is not a complete health care system

 

[Haakon]

Every time I am asked by a physio or a specialist or something of late if I have health insurance, and I tell them I told the sociapathic pricks to get fucked a while back I always get the knowing nod. Its something they're used to hearing these days.

Insurance companies are discovering the limits of what aussies will generally be able to swallow. Idiots jack up the premiums more to compensate, then go whinging to receptive bunch of sociopaths we have in government to get more blackmail put in place to get people back in the system.

democracy huh...?

 

[pink poodle]

Do you think that if we gave less effort to imprisoning asylum seekers and a little more on a robust public health system things might he a little better?

 

[tubby74]

our public system isnt perfect but it is very very good.
ill I'll put my case forward. slight bowel pain so sent for a scope. paid $500 (annual family excess) as wife wanted it at private hospital. next day recalled to follow up with the same troenterologist. he got me in to see surgeon the next day. who callesld the radiation oncologist at rpa and got me on the same afternoon. 5 weeks of chemo pills and 5 days a week of radiation. so far pnly cost $38 for the pill script. 8 hours of surgery and 10 days in hospital. 0 cost. port install for chemo $0. 4 months of chemo. cost for that was $38 per cycle which was 1 nauseau pill that for some reason isnt covered. 3 different chemo drugs and a handful of pills all covered. developed blood clots. emergency visit free. hematology visits monthly free. blood thinners daily paid 38 for a months supply.
stoma supplies. i paid $12 just for delivery every 4-6 weeks.l, supplies themselves were free after a $50 annual membership fee. people in other countries talk about how long they can make expensive shit bags last. they itch and you can get awful skin conditions of they arent changed enough, not to mention the chance of a catastrophic failure.. thank fuck i didnt have to worry about that.
final surgery to get my bowels put back in so i didnt hace to shit.in a bag anymore. went private in public hospital for this . could have gone public bit that got me a registrar performing whilst the top surgeon watched on. private got ne stitched up by the good surgeon who only charged health fund payment figure. anaesthetist cost about 60 over that. was postponed twice but it really wasnt an urgent procedure.

i got fast and very good care when it was needed, had some awesome nurses when i couldnt look after myself. and resding cancer forums i was thankful daily that i wasnt american wondering if my insurance would run out. or maybe my boss would sack me for not being able to work and finding myself without insurance .

we've had 2 kids. first public, second private. couldnt pick a lot between the two. yes we could improve it. we could put the money funnelled to health funds into one bigger better system. but its enviably good already.

 

[wesdadude]

Thank fuck we're not America where if you get sick you die. I've used the NZ public system, it was very good. Surely we're not too disimilar and could achieve similar outcomes.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Thank fuck we're not America where if you get sick you die. I've used the NZ public system, it was very good. Surely we're not too disimilar and could achieve similar outcomes.

Different diseases, we use vets here.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[Calvin27]

The two examples of UK an USA basically show that private health system is basically a scam. Just provide universal care and people who still want private care can still get it. Get it away from my bloody income tax as well. If you want - charge everyone a higher rate of medicare levy.

 

[pink poodle]

@born-again-biker Holy shit that was brilliant!!! I hope you don't mind, but I just read your response out to my partner, and then on her advice a few of our friends (couple of GP's, O&G Reg, GP/Anaesthetist, Urology Reg, Cardiologist, etc.) and it's made our night.

I know it's posted to a public forum, but would you be okay if I printed a copy of that for the staff room? Legitimate pool wall material.

A true quorum of the common person.

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[pink poodle]

For an unreasonable generalisation, saying that every specialist drives a $400,000 car and has a substantial property portfolio would be an example of focusing on the exception, and not the rule.

I know a cardiologist who drives an older Honda Accord. Do they appreciate in value like other high end cars? Or should I depreciate the car from 400k?

The two examples of UK an USA basically show that private health system is basically a scam. Just provide universal care and people who still want private care can still get it. Get it away from my bloody income tax as well. If you want - charge everyone a higher rate of medicare levy.

Somebody watched Sicko.

 

[Oddjob]

There's actually a few things going here. The first is the hybrid makeup of the health system in Australia. It's setup so that public health dollars are focused on prevantive and critical care. For non-critical specialist services the system uses waiting lists and the private system to get people who can afford to pay to do so. This is in many ways a good system.

The other side of the coin is what is covered under prevantative and critical care and the resourcing decisions state health departments make for non-critical specialist services. To the OP I hate to say it but you would have been better off going to Sydney or Melbourne for the procedure. Tasmania simply does not have the economies of scale as the major cities and the wait times and costs reflect this.

In general I think the Australian system serves the majority of Australians well but things get shakier in regional and remote areas especially with chronic illnesses.

We really should have basic dental covered though. There's mounting research showing that a lot of strokes and heart disease are caused by bacteria entering the bloodstream from bad teeth.



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[born-again-biker]

@born-again-biker Holy shit that was brilliant!!! I hope you don't mind, but I just read your response out to my partner, and then on her advice a few of our friends (couple of GP's, O&G Reg, GP/Anaesthetist, Urology Reg, Cardiologist, etc.) and it's made our night.

I know it's posted to a public forum, but would you be okay if I printed a copy of that for the staff room? Legitimate pool wall material.

Yeah knock yourself out mate. If you need a petty laugh at my expense then go for it little man.
It's a shame you came back with that tone Zaf, your opinions are normally welcomed and respected from my side of the screen (even when they cut-me-real deep!)
Yes, I am aware that my ranting contains large generalisations. Yes, I went too far with the Aspen lodges and the pricey cars - gross generalisations for sure. But can you honestly say there is no 'kernel' of truth to my aggrieved observations? I am essentially calling out imbalances.

Whether you realise it or not, your shit smells just the same as everyone else's'. Or another way, a career in medicine does not grant a "God Complex".
Some Doctors would do well to remember this.....or are they all perfect humans?

As I stated, I respect the hard work, I respect the accuracy, I respect the training....but the billing/costs and the rampant entitlement are a stretch too far.
I respect an excellent carpenter or an excellent scientist or an amazing artist - but I don't feel those professions are part of a government supervised rort.

The sad thing is, it's the Doctors and specialists who are best positioned to shake up the structure of the system!
If they stated that the private system was a scam and they no longer supported it, we would likely see change, no?
I suspect it's hard to speak out against a system that allows you to extract so much money from the punter and the insurance company....

 

[born-again-biker]

I know a cardiologist who drives an older Honda Accord.

Did you check his qualifications?? He's prolly a fake.
Maybe it was just a courtesy car while the Porsche was getting serviced?