Little Things You Hate

[Boom King]

Not one living person can claim that they've been effected by the "invasion back in the day" so I say this country needs to stand together instead of creating divide and taking backward steps.

Not directly perhaps but it could be argued that "standing together" fuels the current divide driving us further backwards.

For the country to stand together on the current Australia day requires one group to acquiesce to another. Why should this be the case? Why shouldn't we have a mature discussion between all parties and agree on another date that is acceptable to ALL Australians?


Edit: Given that indigenous Australians were only recognised as Australian citizens in 1967, I'd say there are plenty of living people that have been affected by the "invasion back in the day" as Dozer puts it.

 

[Zaf]

Not directly perhaps but it could be argued that "standing together" fuels the current divide driving us further backwards.

For the country to stand together on the current Australia day requires one group to acquiesce to another. Why should this be the case? Why shouldn't we have a mature discussion between all parties and agree on another date that is acceptable to ALL Australians?

To what end will changing the date resolve the issue?
I think this is the argument that needs to be made, and convincingly, before the greater population even begins to entertain the prospect of it. Especially in light of the last time the Gov't played symbolic politics, and the subsequent backlash when it, unsurprisingly, didn't solve anything.

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

Change it, don't change it

but keep your filthy hands off my public holiday you stinking pollies

 

[Boom King]

To what end will changing the date resolve the issue?

That really depends on what "the issue" actually is?

My patents escaped Hungary during the revolution in 1956. I was born here and feel completely Australian but I also feel a connection to Hungary simply through lineage and family history. Given what my parents went through, with an uprising against those that had invaded their homeland and taken control, I can sympathise with indigenous Australians and understand why they have issue celebrating "Australia" on a day that signifies the taking of their ancestors land from them. Like it or not, that's what happened and we, as a whole, should have some empathy.

A different date will, at its simplest, allow everyone to celebrate the place they call home.

 

[Zaf]

I was born in Australia to Portuguese and Dutch parents.

Even then, I take issue with the concept that others be made to inherit the guilt of the responsible parties, simply because happen to cohabit the landmass. Further, these types of complaints never come with a suggested solution attached, as if it falls on the blamed party to solve the issue. Then people act surprised when these solutions either don't work, or come in a unexpected format.

As far as more callous take on the way of the world, calling "dibs" or trying to lay claim to something because you were the first there is not exactly the a realistic expectation. But you don't make peace with your friends, you make peace with those who you are in conflict with. Maybe it's best to simply leave the date the same and use it as a celebration of the differences we've been able to overcome, rather than a constant excuse to bereave past failings.

 

[pineapplehead]

There's two sure things in life:

1) Changing the date of Australia Day won't change anything and you're bound to offend someone whichever way you go. I say leave it, it's my dog's Birthday and I'm proud to call this country home. Not one living person can claim that they've been effected by the "invasion back in the day" so I say this country needs to stand together instead of creating divide and taking backward steps.

I'm not sure you actually understand the debate, and your agreement is essentially saying 'I'm not offended therefore noone else should be either'.
Plus, wouldn't you agree that the current scenario is creating division anyway? (*Perhaps not as you seem to only see the debate through your own lens).

I've got an elderly indigenous friend who loves Australia very much. Loves it to bits. But she's one of the stolen generation, and she is mighty uncomfortable celebrating Australia day on the anniversary of the date that the British flag was planted on our soul. For her its a very uncomfortable thing given that she grew up without her family because of British values.

Changing the date would allow everyone to enjoy the day.

Anyway, who would genuinely be offended by changing it away from the 26th, apart from those who would be pissed off by the 'lefties' - which let's face it is simply a spiteful reaction and quite different to legitimately having reason to be hurt.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Pick a date and justify why it is better. The first fleet didn't actually arrive on the 26th anyway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Australian_history

Few holes and gaps and no mention of the Chinese in the 15th century.

 

[pineapplehead]

Pick a date and justify why it is better. The first fleet didn't actually arrive on the 26th anyway.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Australian_history

Few holes and gaps and no mention of the Chinese in the 15th century.

Plenty of alternative options. There's more reason to change the date than there is to keep it.

*I realise the 26th isn't the date they arrived, but it is the occasion represented by that date.

 

[pink poodle]

Moorey is on the money - November for the win, and always on a Friday.

The date as is exacerbates tension and conflict. In contrast you'd have to be pretty hard nosed to be offended by changing it. What is the gain vs loss comparison? Changing the date would also provide tangible reinforcement of K.Rudd's apology. Who knows what next? A treaty...?

 

[Boom King]

I was born in Australia to Portuguese and Dutch parents.

Even then, I take issue with the concept that others be made to inherit the guilt of the responsible parties, simply because happen to cohabit the landmass. Further, these types of complaints never come with a suggested solution attached, as if it falls on the blamed party to solve the issue. Then people act surprised when these solutions either don't work, or come in a unexpected format.

As far as more callous take on the way of the world, calling "dibs" or trying to lay claim to something because you were the first there is not exactly the a realistic expectation. But you don't make peace with your friends, you make peace with those who you are in conflict with. Maybe it's best to simply leave the date the same and use it as a celebration of the differences we've been able to overcome, rather than a constant excuse to bereave past failings.

"We didn't start the fire
It was always burning since the world's been turning"

Billy Joel.

Isn't it always the responsibility of the current generation to right the wrongs of previous?

 

[Dales Cannon]

My vote is a date in September, 23rd ish or if not September then my birthday.

 

[cokeonspecialtwodollars]

Isn't it always the responsibility of the current generation to right the wrongs of previous?

Then whose responsibility is it, or should the wrongs just continue to remain unwritten?

 

[Boom King]

Then whose responsibility is it, or should the wrongs just continue to remain unwritten?

Is there an echo in here?

 

[cokeonspecialtwodollars]

Is there an echo in here?

My apologise King of Boom sir, I misread your early post as "It isn't always" as opposed to "Isn't it always"

 

[Zaf]

Isn't it always the responsibility of the current generation to right the wrongs of previous?

If the greatest, most pressing, problem of our time is the contention over the date of a public holiday, I think we're in a really great place.
I have worked the better part of the past decade in Aboriginal healthcare, and in a relative sense, this Australia Day drama is a serious dose of trying to turn the oven off when the house is already on fire.

But it's the usual thing, it's a way of making people feel like they're making a difference without having to actually do anything (you have the day off anyway right?) and has very little to do with actually achieving anything. Which is why I err on the side of caution when it comes to symbolic politics to begin with.

 

[pink poodle]

^ the issue is symbolic of a divided Australia. While changing the date of a public holiday won't align Aboriginal health and life expectancy with the rest of the country, it might be a step towards better collaboration on problem solving rather than perpetuating the current norm.

 

[Dozer]

I'm not sure you actually understand the debate, and your agreement is essentially saying 'I'm not offended therefore noone else should be either'.
Plus, wouldn't you agree that the current scenario is creating division anyway? (*Perhaps not as you seem to only see the debate through your own lens).

I've got an elderly indigenous friend who loves Australia very much. Loves it to bits. But she's one of the stolen generation, and she is mighty uncomfortable celebrating Australia day on the anniversary of the date that the British flag was planted on our soul. For her its a very uncomfortable thing given that she grew up without her family because of British values.

Changing the date would allow everyone to enjoy the day.

Anyway, who would genuinely be offended by changing it away from the 26th, apart from those who would be pissed off by the 'lefties' - which let's face it is simply a spiteful reaction and quite different to legitimately having reason to be hurt.

I understand the timeline and what has gotten us to this point. I've spoken about it with friends of Aboriginal heritage and others that have only been granted citizenship in Australia in the last ten years and of course the "I was born here" folks. I won't say my resource pool is vast but 94.2% of the people I speak to about it just shrug and admit they don't see what the fuss is about and don't see the point in changing it. One of those people said that the obvious thing would be for Australia to become go full Republic, get a new a flag and call that day our national day. Maybe thats the ultimate resolution, maybe it's not but I'm sure this topic will become more of a thing as time goes on.

 

[Minlak]

A very simplistic view and based on my experience of 48 yrs of age and I offer no solution with this statement...
"Agitators will always be agitated" Move the date or don't move the date just make a final decision (Maybe a mail out plebicite to boost Aus post profits for the year again). Then there will be the next "Fight".
*Disclaimer I am not trivialising anything here there is always good things to fight for.

 

[pink poodle]

94.2%

I call bullshit. Show us the methodology!

...and if we are going to shrug off the empire, I demand a new public holiday without the loss of an existing public holiday!

 

[Ultra Lord]

^nailed it in one. We need more days off damnit