Greyhound Racing

[Elbo]

I'm sure everyone's already heard today's announcement by the NSW state government that Greyhound racing will be banned in NSW from July 2017, and the ACT looks like they'll be following suit.

My dad had greyhounds when he was younger, as well as a share in a racehorse. I'm not involved in the industry and don't really have any hardline views on the sport either way, but it surprises me that the government would come out and say they are winding up an entire industry in less than a year's time, without an exit plan. You only had to hear how distraught some people in the industry were in the media today to understand the impact of the decision. Sure, there are the rogue trainers committing those atrocious crimes against animals (10-20% of trainers use live baiting according to the report), but surely the 4Corners exposé pushed the industry to improve and discouraged those cruel practices amongst those with no respect for their animals.

The report suggests between 48,000-68,000 greyhounds were killed in the last 12 years in NSW (4000-5666 per year). What about all the Kelpie, Border Collie and Blue Heeler litters that farmers take down to the dam to drown because they can't afford to feed them? What about all the horses killed because they're not fast enough? Is the government going to stop all racing involving animals? Probably not, because horse racing is seen as 'sophisticated' and there's big money and a lot of history involved. What about live-export of cattle? On the one hand, you've got a government making a hard moral stance against one industry, while washing their hands of humans literally killing cattle with sledgehammers, because it's not on Australian soil, so not our problem.

The cynic in me also looks at the value of land at somewhere like Wentworth Park in Sydney and wonders whether that was a factor in the decision. Harold Park Raceway in nearby Glebe sold in 2008 for $150 million.

 

[pink poodle]

I'm sure everyone's already heard today's announcement by the NSW state government that Greyhound racing will be banned in NSW from July 2017, and the ACT looks like they'll be following suit.

My dad had greyhounds when he was younger, as well as a share in a racehorse. I'm not involved in the industry and don't really have any hardline views on the sport either way, but it surprises me that the government would come out and say they are winding up an entire industry in less than a year's time, without an exit plan. You only had to hear how distraught some people in the industry were in the media today to understand the impact of the decision. Sure, there are the rogue trainers committing those atrocious crimes against animals (10-20% of trainers use live baiting according to the report), but surely the 4Corners exposé pushed the industry to improve and discouraged those cruel practices amongst those with no respect for their animals.

The report suggests between 48,000-68,000 greyhounds were killed in the last 12 years in NSW (4000-5666 per year). What about all the Kelpie, Border Collie and Blue Heeler litters that farmers take down to the dam to drown because they can't afford to feed them? What about all the horses killed because they're not fast enough? Is the government going to stop all racing involving animals? Probably not, because horse racing is seen as 'sophisticated' and there's big money and a lot of history involved. What about live-export of cattle? On the one hand, you've got a government making a hard moral stance against one industry, while washing their hands of humans literally killing cattle with sledgehammers, because it's not on Australian soil, so not our problem.

The cynic in me also looks at the value of land at somewhere like Wentworth Park in Sydney and wonders whether that was a factor in the decision. Harold Park Raceway in nearby Glebe sold in 2008 for $150 million.

Shame on you for your cynical views Elbo. This isn't am industry, it is a hobby. Just like dog fighting was. If it was generating big tax revenues for the state government this wouldn't be happening. It is a wake up call to all of us.

 

[TwoSix]

between 48,000-68,000 greyhounds were killed in the last 12 years in NSW (4000-5666 per What about all the Kelpie, Border Collie and Blue Heeler litters that farmers take down to the dam to drown because they can't afford to feed them? What about all the horses killed because they're not fast enough? Is the government going to stop all racing involving animals? Probably not, because horse racing is seen as 'sophisticated' and there's big money and a lot of history involved. What about live-export of cattle? On the one hand, you've got a government making a hard moral stance against one industry, while washing their hands of humans literally killing cattle with sledgehammers, because it's not on Australian soil, so not our problem.

The cynic in me also looks at the value of land at somewhere like Wentworth Park in Sydney and wonders whether that was a factor in the decision. Harold Park Raceway in nearby Glebe sold in 2008 for $150 million.

I'm not sure what your point is here, for one farmers killing litters of pups isn't relevant as they're doing it so they themselves can survive and feed their families - whereas the extreme cruelty subjected to animals in other industries is ultimately for profit. Are you suggesting that they should just leave the industry as it is because other animals get it worse? I think it's one step in the right direction, and heck I'd love to see horse racing and live export stopped too - but obviously this won't all happen at once so to say boo because they've shut one industry down before others is wrong IMO.

No offence but I think the suggestion it has anything to do with money is preposterous , 150 mil is a piss in the ocean for the government (unless you believe in their 'budget')

 

[Flow-Rider]

It is a bit odd to pick on only the greyhound industry though. I've seen some terrible dog breading kennels for bullterriers and bullmastiffs over the years. The way some people treat animals is just wrong but then again I remember going into a solicitor's office once and reading a sign saying "Don't expect the world to be fair' above that phrase it had "Marriage separation"

 

[redbruce]

I'm sure everyone's already heard today's announcement by the NSW state government that Greyhound racing will be banned in NSW from July 2017, and the ACT looks like they'll be following suit.

My dad had greyhounds when he was younger, as well as a share in a racehorse. I'm not involved in the industry and don't really have any hardline views on the sport either way, but it surprises me that the government would come out and say they are winding up an entire industry in less than a year's time, without an exit plan. You only had to hear how distraught some people in the industry were in the media today to understand the impact of the decision. Sure, there are the rogue trainers committing those atrocious crimes against animals (10-20% of trainers use live baiting according to the report), but surely the 4Corners exposé pushed the industry to improve and discouraged those cruel practices amongst those with no respect for their animals.

The report suggests between 48,000-68,000 greyhounds were killed in the last 12 years in NSW (4000-5666 per year). What about all the Kelpie, Border Collie and Blue Heeler litters that farmers take down to the dam to drown because they can't afford to feed them? What about all the horses killed because they're not fast enough? Is the government going to stop all racing involving animals? Probably not, because horse racing is seen as 'sophisticated' and there's big money and a lot of history involved. What about live-export of cattle? On the one hand, you've got a government making a hard moral stance against one industry, while washing their hands of humans literally killing cattle with sledgehammers, because it's not on Australian soil, so not our problem.

The cynic in me also looks at the value of land at somewhere like Wentworth Park in Sydney and wonders whether that was a factor in the decision. Harold Park Raceway in nearby Glebe sold in 2008 for $150 million.

What about those other deaths. How about some numbers to support your (I suspect emotional ) allegations intended to mitigate the reality that (by the evidence) 20% of animals in just one industry (and not dispersed across all animal industries) in a primarily discretionary income focused industry, ie gaming, is killed in the course of "business as usual", for context.

The report shows that upwards of 4000 animals/yr, within one (gambling) industry are considered an opportunity cost, that live baiting is "reasonable' in the light of desirable outcome, that there is a culture of indifference and acceptance in the industry (driven by monetary reward) is acceptable. You seem to have confused with poor return on investment (discretionary) and a lack of financial capacity to feed (farmers).

By any measure, in a humane society, this is unacceptable. Or are we not a humane society, just a self centred one.

Relative to the ongoing issues associated with live exports however, this seems a small target in the animal welfare and ethics stakes.

 

[Elbo]

I'm not sure what your point is here, for one farmers killing litters of pups isn't relevant as they're doing it so they themselves can survive and feed their families - whereas the extreme cruelty subjected to animals in other industries is ultimately for profit. Are you suggesting that they should just leave the industry as it is because other animals get it worse? I think it's one step in the right direction, and heck I'd love to see horse racing and live export stopped too - but obviously this won't all happen at once so to say boo because they've shut one industry down before others is wrong IMO.

No offence but I think the suggestion it has anything to do with money is preposterous , 150 mil is a piss in the ocean for the government (unless you believe in their 'budget')

I'm not suggesting they should leave the industry 'as is,' nor am I trying to place different animals on a 'scale of cruelty' to justify one form of cruelty over another. I would also like to see horse racing and live export stopped too. My question is, where is the hardline moral stance on those cases? If preventing cruelty was the only factor considered in shutting down an industry, yet there are still industries that are known for their cruelty, the logic, I suppose, is that cruelty is tolerated if it's committed by an industry that's too big to be shut down.

$150m might not be much in the grand scheme of things, but I don't think it's that far fetched to consider what the future use of large tracts of prime inner city real-estate might be, when that real-estate is conveniently made available by banning the industry that currently occupies it. SMH is certainly asking the question.

 

[Elbo]

An interesting perspective, to say the least.

What about those other deaths. How about some numbers to support your (I suspect emotional ) allegations intended to mitigate the reality that (by the evidence) 20% of animals in just one industry (not dispersed across all animal industries and a discretionary and primarily discretionary income focused industry, ie gaming ) is killed in the course of "business as usual", for context.

The horse racing industry calls it 'wastage.' 25,000 horses are killed every year. 52.9% of all horses killed at abattoirs in Australia bore branding that indicated they had been registered to race. That's 13,200 horses rejected from the racing industry killed per year. Say the 5000 dogs killed in NSW per year were extrapolated to the rest of the country. NSW population is 7.5m. 5000/7,500,000 = 0.000666. 0.000666 x 23,000,000 (Australian Pop'n) = 15,300. So, if NSW is an accurate representation for the number of dogs killed per capita, we can reasonably expect that 15,300 dogs are killed across Australia every year directly because of the racing industry. 15,300 dogs, or 13,200 horses? What's worse? What's enough evidence? Are the horses 'less cruel' because they end up being used as pet food or exported horse meat?
We have the evidence, gravitas and support to bring down the horse racing industry, but clearly, evidence of cruelty alone, or absolute numbers of deaths is not enough, unless you're a smaller and easier target, like the greyhound racing industry.

I guess the question I'm raising is how do we define cruelty, because clearly, there are many factors influencing what we perceive as cruel enough to do something drastic about it. We seem to have found the limit of that today with the banning of an entire industry, and rightfully so.

Your position beggars belief. The report shows that upwards of 4000 animals/yr, within one (gambling) industry are considered an opportunity cost, that live baiting is "reasonable' in the light of desirable outcome, that there is a culture of indifference and acceptance in the industry (driven by monetary reward) is acceptable. You seem to have confused with poor return on investment (discretionary) and a lack of financial capacity to feed (farmers actually

My position? I'm not defending the industry. I'm glad to see it go, although I question the exit strategy (or lack thereof) and the ramifications for the thousands more greyhounds suddenly deemed 'wastage' as well as the loss of livelihoods for the people involved.

As to the conspiracy (cynic) theory re land value driver, maybe true, but also like most such theories, inevitably a desperate clutch at straws.

Show me some solid evidence.

Got to start somewhere. It has evidence, gravitas and contemporary (widespread animal community concern) support.

This is true, and I agree, we have to start somewhere. As for the theory, I doubt it's the case, but I wouldn't put it past the NSW government to be involved in underhanded dealings.

 

[poita]

Definitely a conversation provoking move, and well timed AFTER the Fed Election....

However, I have a greyhound at home, adopted. We wanted a dog, don't really feel comfortable with the whole designer dog/purebred business, and I'm a bit of a tightarse....$75 later and we got a dog that already existed and is the perfect pet! I won't go into the more subjective, emotional side of things regarding racing animals for money but I do know some facts. Out of his litter of 8 dogs, 2 have raced EVER(a couple of lacklustre performances) and the other 5 are ....... I think maybe one other was sent for adoption? 4 other dogs....? Simple maths says a greyhound trainer isn't going to keep feeding 4 dogs (they eat ALOT) that don't make him any money or breed. And unless he has a crazy dog friend I doubt they are hanging around as pets!

The one thing I do hope is that they remove all the ridiculous legislation restricting greyhounds as pets at the same time, they are so good as pets!

 

[TwoSix]

It is a bit odd to pick on only the greyhound industry though. I've seen some terrible dog breading kennels for bullterriers and bullmastiffs over the years. The way some people treat animals is just wrong but then again I remember going into a solicitor's office once and reading a sign saying "Don't expect the world to be fair' above that phrase it had "Marriage separation"

So if it's 'a bit odd' to 'pick on only the greyhound industry' they might as well just leave it alone as not to ruffle feathers or rouse suspicion? Better not pick on any industries now eh in case it's seen as odd?

Have you ever seen a dog breeding kennel that wasn't 'terrible' to some extent? Or do some look fine to you?

I think getting short changed at the store is unfair, I think taking away penalty rates is unfair, but to call the torture of animals unfair - by definition yes but it belittles an issue that reaches far further than fairness IMO.

 

[TwoSix]

I would also like to see horse racing and live export stopped too. My question is, where is the hardline moral stance on those cases? If preventing cruelty was the only factor considered in shutting down an industry, yet there are still industries that are known for their cruelty, the logic, I suppose, is that cruelty is tolerated if it's committed by an industry that's too big to be shut down.

$150m might not be much in the grand scheme of things, but I don't think it's that far fetched to consider what the future use of large tracts of prime inner city real-estate might be, when that real-estate is conveniently made available by banning the industry that currently occupies it. SMH is certainly asking the question.

I guess in politics a hard-line moral stance is not going to go down well (except with hippies, vegans and tree hugging fairy's). Imagine the uproar if horse racing was banned.. the people making these calls have to be so calculated as to not wreck themselves figuratively speaking.

I think I misjudged your character here and after some more though I'm sure there are other motives here, there simply must be. And perhaps the moral aspect of the situation was used as a springboard. Having said this every industry involving animals is cruel full stop, dairy, chickens, pork - yet huge majority of us support these industries with our cash, so ,, do people actually care? Hardly enough to stop

 

[Minlak]

Look at all the vegans go. This is going to be very unpopular but remember these horses and dogs were breed for our entertainment just as those delicious bovines are bred for our taste buds. The animal derived food you eat everyday is treated far worse on a far larger scale. I don't agree with blooding the dogs nor being cruel for crueles sake but to annihilate an entire industry because of what is still a minority is reckless at best.

If we are now wiping things out for wide spread cruelty and corruption I await the announcement of military rule in Australia as politics is about to be banned.

 

[stirk]

Its a small win for animals used in sport as the dodgy people will continue their trade by simply moving state until it's banned across the whole country.

Horse racing will remain as ironically that industry provides the dog food.

 

[B Rabbit]

I hope the rest of the states follow.

 

[redbruce]

I hope the rest of states follow.

I didn't realise it has been banned in 40 of 50 states in US, the land of the free.

Pity they can't manage the same for guns.

 

[Flow-Rider]

So if it's 'a bit odd' to 'pick on only the greyhound industry' they might as well just leave it alone as not to ruffle feathers or rouse suspicion? Better not pick on any industries now eh in case it's seen as odd?

Have you ever seen a dog breeding kennel that wasn't 'terrible' to some extent? Or do some look fine to you?

I think getting short changed at the store is unfair, I think taking away penalty rates is unfair, but to call the torture of animals unfair - by definition yes but it belittles an issue that reaches far further than fairness IMO.

Considering there are a lot of industries where animals get treated badly, considering that not every greyhound owner is a cock and doing the wrong the thing, yes it is unfair to some people. It's the actions of a few that screw it up for the rest of the other people, why not have harsher penalties for the people that get caught doing the wrong thing.

 

[pink poodle]

I'm not sure what your point is here, for one farmers killing litters of pups isn't relevant as they're doing it so they themselves can survive and feed their families - whereas the extreme cruelty subjected to animals in other industries is ultimately for profit. Are you suggesting that they should just leave the industry as it is because other animals get it worse? I think it's one step in the right direction, and heck I'd love to see horse racing and live export stopped too - but obviously this won't all happen at once so to say boo because they've shut one industry down before others is wrong IMO.

No offence but I think the suggestion it has anything to do with money is preposterous , 150 mil is a piss in the ocean for the government (unless you believe in their 'budget')

Farmers killing puppies is usually out of greed or laziness. If you don't want the puppies, just get your dog's desexed. Simple and not that expensive in the scheme of things.

150mil is plenty motivational, all the pennies stack up. Now times the 150mil by how many tracks will be sold? The moral argument is the excuse, the money is the motivator. This industry is a soft target - Small and low profile. Given the unlikelihood of shutting down other cruel industries/sports, I'd hope that the chance for greater regulation is taken.

What about those other deaths. How about some numbers to support your (I suspect emotional ) allegations intended to mitigate the reality that (by the evidence) 20% of animals in just one industry (and not dispersed across all animal industries) in a primarily discretionary income focused industry, ie gaming, is killed in the course of "business as usual", for context.

The report shows that upwards of 4000 animals/yr, within one (gambling) industry are considered an opportunity cost, that live baiting is "reasonable' in the light of desirable outcome, that there is a culture of indifference and acceptance in the industry (driven by monetary reward) is acceptable. You seem to have confused with poor return on investment (discretionary) and a lack of financial capacity to feed (farmers).

By any measure, in a humane society, this is unacceptable. Or are we not a humane society, just a self centred one.

Relative to the ongoing issues associated with live exports however, this seems a small target in the animal welfare and ethics stakes.

Do you feel this could be a chance to bring cock fighting back? I'd love to place bets on a Malcolm Turnbull vs Bill Shorten fight!

I didn't realise it has been banned in 40 of 50 states in US, the land of the free.

Pity they can't manage the same for guns.

If they banned the guns, it would be harder to shoot the dogs...guns are making a comeback here too. Personal protection is one of the policies of a senator or two.

I lived near a greyhound trainer as a kid. His dogs were awesome. But I preferred my rescued from the damn cattle dog.

 

[schred]

If they banned the guns, it would be harder to shoot the dogs...guns are making a comeback here too. Personal protection is one of the policies of a senator or two.

More guns have been imported since PA, but from memory less than the population growth over the same period, so less per capita. Also you can't buy assault rifles anymore, dammit!

Personal protection? you need to wait until you're in fear of your life before doing anything useful. Club a rubber and be prepared for consequences, unless you have a basement, aka Henry Hill.

 

[Brooksy007]

Simple maths says a greyhound trainer isn't going to keep feeding 4 dogs (they eat ALOT) that don't make him any money or breed. And unless he has a crazy dog friend I doubt they are hanging around as pets!

THIS to me is the inherent problem with ALL animal racing/entertainment - the fact that many owners believe they have the right to make such a choice simply because the animal(s) in question aren't "making a profit", or because they have sustained an injury BECAUSE of the sport. Fuck them all is all I can say. If you want to USE an animal to make a profit, you should damn well be prepared look after it should it not "make the grade".

And to those that say they care for their animals - whether you like it or not, you are part of an industry that has (and to a certain extent still does) tolerates the above behaviour. This isn't something new, pretty much everyone in the industry knows it happens - if not actually know specific individuals that do it - the industry has had YEARS to stop the practices, and yet to continues. 10-20% is NOT just a series of random, one-off events, and neither is 4-6000 dogs...

And yes, this should just be the start - all other animal sports/entertainment should be on the list, as should live export...

 

[moorey]

Good. 10 char.

(Horses next please)

 

[pink poodle]

More guns have been imported since PA, but from memory less than the population growth over the same period, so less per capita. Also you can't buy assault rifles anymore, dammit!

Personal protection? you need to wait until you're in fear of your life before doing anything useful. Club a rubber and be prepared for consequences, unless you have a basement, aka Henry Hill.

Just wait 'til she needs more media attention...we will be hearing about the right to protect ourselves from aggressive gangs of halal pork sausages.

Good. 10 char.

(Horses next please)

I've eaten horse (delicious), I'm not sure I could eat dogs. Some kind of vague emotional attachment. What will we do with the tiny men we have bred to spank the horsies? Not many chimney sweep or cotton gin jobs going...