foreign aid?
- Thread starter biggles
- Start date
Just to step it back to foreign aid in general: On the ground, foreign aid - rather than specific instances of disaster relief aid, seems to be actually BAD for third world countries.
- Aid dependent governments factor in being given money for nothing by other governments. This promotes many things, including corruption at all levels of government and acts as a strong disincentive for growth of domestic industry and independence - why develop methods of generating income when other countries will give you money for free? If you do develop your own methods of generating income the aid money dries up.
- Many aid agencies employ foreign nationals to carry out their aid work. By building, running and maintaining (in some instances) basic services FOR people and governments, rather than providing for the training and development of them by the local population, you lock people into a cycle of dependency. You also breed an attitude of charity amongst the population - people ask for handouts, not jobs, as that's what foreign aid offers.
- When you supply raw aid - resources and money to ineffective and corrupt administration, you effectively supply and perpetuate that administrative regime. Prodiving better quality of life for the citizens of such a country requires wholesale regime change, and empowering the existing government might actually be counter-productive.
So basically, disaster relief aside, I think we need to seriously think about what we offer in aid and how we offer it. Going over and digging wells, building hospitals and handing out bags of rice might make us feel good about ourselves but it might not actually promote actually realised development in aid dependent countries.
- Aid dependent governments factor in being given money for nothing by other governments. This promotes many things, including corruption at all levels of government and acts as a strong disincentive for growth of domestic industry and independence - why develop methods of generating income when other countries will give you money for free? If you do develop your own methods of generating income the aid money dries up.
- Many aid agencies employ foreign nationals to carry out their aid work. By building, running and maintaining (in some instances) basic services FOR people and governments, rather than providing for the training and development of them by the local population, you lock people into a cycle of dependency. You also breed an attitude of charity amongst the population - people ask for handouts, not jobs, as that's what foreign aid offers.
- When you supply raw aid - resources and money to ineffective and corrupt administration, you effectively supply and perpetuate that administrative regime. Prodiving better quality of life for the citizens of such a country requires wholesale regime change, and empowering the existing government might actually be counter-productive.
So basically, disaster relief aside, I think we need to seriously think about what we offer in aid and how we offer it. Going over and digging wells, building hospitals and handing out bags of rice might make us feel good about ourselves but it might not actually promote actually realised development in aid dependent countries.
biggles
Squid
biggles
Squid
Well, one could argue that Indica's suggestion you are a wanker is also his opinion and therefore as per above you agree he is entitled to it. Trifle harsh maybe and possibly it would have been better to try and correct/educate you instead of simply lobbing an insult.
On that note, do you still agree with your original post or have you changed your mind given the vehment opposition encountered? I'd like to think that the objections raised have made you rethink your original position.
For the record I do not agree with you at all - we have the means to help ourselves and others at the same time so expecting those who are (much) worse off to help us is ridiculous in the extreme, regardless of whether we have helped them in the past or no.
To a person who isn't clued up on the politics of things it does pose a genuine question. A younger person may assume that we helped people overseas because we could and then questioned why no one jumps in to support us in a time of need. Many Australian people are chucking a few bucks in to support some flood victims and that is great, it shows that regardless of your circumstances you can still think of others.
I know what Biggles is thinking and I agree. On paper, it isn't harsh for some Australians in need to wonder why other countries can't help out sometimes. Be it politics, a race discretion, lack of funds....whatever. There isn't really an excuse they could provide that won't sit well on moral grounds with many people.
I know what Biggles is thinking and I agree. On paper, it isn't harsh for some Australians in need to wonder why other countries can't help out sometimes. Be it politics, a race discretion, lack of funds....whatever. There isn't really an excuse they could provide that won't sit well on moral grounds with many people.
PINT of Stella. mate!
Many, many Scotches
To put this in simpler terms, If you can imagine that countries are households:
Indonesia with it's problems with corruption, steady supply of natural disasters, high poverty rate, high disease rate and huge population is kinda like that family in the commission house across the road where the parents are alkies, the kids are dressed in rags and are in sore need of some care and attention. Shit, you almost feel obliged to help the younger ones out as it's not their fault they're in that situation.
Haiti, is the poor chap at the end of the street whose house completely burnt down, is now living in a tent and he's had to get his legs amputated due to gangrene.
We on the other hand are living in a nice big house, have stable jobs but some f***er's just totalled our BMW.
Indonesia with it's problems with corruption, steady supply of natural disasters, high poverty rate, high disease rate and huge population is kinda like that family in the commission house across the road where the parents are alkies, the kids are dressed in rags and are in sore need of some care and attention. Shit, you almost feel obliged to help the younger ones out as it's not their fault they're in that situation.
Haiti, is the poor chap at the end of the street whose house completely burnt down, is now living in a tent and he's had to get his legs amputated due to gangrene.
We on the other hand are living in a nice big house, have stable jobs but some f***er's just totalled our BMW.
Hamsta
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Does that make the US the Crack dealer who has moved into the next street, given the kids a way to makes some $, given the guy without legs a wheelchair in exchange for hiding loads of crack in his tent and Australia the opportunity to increase territorial control in exchange for protection of their own fledgling crack empire?
But Dozer, beyond being wrong on the politics, you and Biggles are wrong on the facts. Help has been offered, so far I think we've only accepted it from New Zealand. And pragmatically it's quite possible that help from poorer places eg Haiti may hurt them far more than it benefits us.
And I think you're right about 'a race discretion' - that this furphy is a 'racial discretion' being planted to take political advantage of Queenslanders' misfortune.
Edit: not that I'm blaming you specifically for that planting, I suspect Biggles was just passing it on.
And I think you're right about 'a race discretion' - that this furphy is a 'racial discretion' being planted to take political advantage of Queenslanders' misfortune.
Edit: not that I'm blaming you specifically for that planting, I suspect Biggles was just passing it on.
Wait up. I wasn't putting my opinion forward, I was putting it in a way that may sound more familiar to people who don't know the things that actually unfold from offering and providing aid to foreign countries. I know where the crumbs of the cookie land.
Rider_of_Fast
Likes Bikes
I just took a wiff of that and smelt... survival of the fittest
Rider_of_Fast
Likes Bikes
I'd recommend; Standring, S 2008, Gray’s Anatomy, 4th edn, Elsevier, Missouri.
Just checked my olfactory, my farts smell as good as ever
What exactly do you expect to learn about evolutionary theory in a book about human anatomy aimed at medical practioners, of which the first edition predates On the Origin of Species?
As I pointed out in the science nerd thread, the details of foreign aid would have to have a differential impact on the population growth rate of human populations. If you are suggesting that socioeconomics directly translate into darwinian evolutionary principles, the increased population growth of developing countries vs developed countries would contradict that.
Economic Darwinism isn't applicable to the biological processes it is derived from as economic success does not result in increased fecundity.
biggles
Squid
to be honest i just put this up as a big up yours to indonesia, when this was posted i had no idea that indonesia had offered aid, and frankly i was amazed. this is a country that hates australia with a passion. i did 15 yrs in the military and was privy to a lot of information confirming this, this is a country that specifically targeted australia when planting explosive devices. i know people will say it's not everyone, and that is very true, but i take it VERY personally when anyone from my country is targeted. australia led the united nations effort to give east timor its freedom, and as a result indonesia wasn't too happy about losing some of their territory. we gave political asylum to west papuan refugees much to the protest of the indonesian government. i spent 6 weeks 600 nautical miles north of darwin trying to keep their fishing fleets from raping our waters. this goes on with the full support of their government. interested to see the feedback from this...........
You need the shift key on your computer fixed.
After hearing that Indonesia had offered aid, you could have just said "I stand corrected, well done Indonesia!".
biggles
Squid
i will now say well done to the government of indonesia for offering aid. i wonder if our government will accept?
biggles
Squid
if that's a thanks for serving in the australian military, you're very welcome. thanks is not a word the military hears enough.