Fast Vets.....

[24alpha]

Ok, what are Vets thoughts on this:

In Victoria we have some really talented and very fast Vets. So much so that there is a massive devide in times between those fast guys and the "also ran" weekend warriors.
Should there be 2 categories of Vets riders? Vets & Vets B or should those really fast guys be made to step up? Some of these guys have times that would podium/place top ten in Elite or Expert.
We have some Elite riders that are over 30, some Expert riders that are over 40. These guys ride in classes above the age because they a fast enough and want the challenge.

So should riders that qualify by age be made to step up? Should there be 2 categories of Vets? Or should there just be status quo? What's it like in other states?

I'd like to hear from really fast Vet riders as well. Especially if you're at the top of state.

Hux

 

[digby69]

Don't freak Hux

You've lost a couple of to quicks this year, cause there now to old.
Problem now is they're masters with me
Maybe seed vets and masters together and grade by times not age?

 

[24alpha]

Maybe seed vets and masters together and grade by times not age?

lol. I'm not worried, I doubt I'll be racing this year anyway. lol
Seeding & Grading might work. Any others with thoughts?

 

[cjaty]

Yea it's hard to stop the sandbagers out there,if there are a few faster vets in a club then it should be up to the club to confront these riders and talk about moving them to "sport a" or "sport b".Most time there run times are good enough to win in another class.I think vets should start at the age of 35.

 

[scblack]

...Or let's ask this question in another way:

Your question is: should a person be moved to Elite or Expert out of Vets, due to their times - Correct?

OK, should we also consider this:

Should the U19's and U17's who could place well in Elite or Expert be asked to move to another class?



I don't think the move should be put to a rider. Just because they are quick in their age group, why should they move? They are the quicker riders in their age group - why does that need a move to Elite or Expert? I don't see it as sandbagging at all. They are in their age group.

Sandbaggers relates to Sport, or Expert riders who could do well in Elite.

 

[thecat]

Agreed.

Age divisions are there to compete against the best in your age division.

There is nothing stopping the slower old guys from entering expert or sport which are more about participation than anything else .

 

[ja_har]

Agreed.

Age divisions are there to compete against the best in your age division.

There is nothing stopping the slower old guys from entering expert or sport which are more about participation than anything else .

Agreed

For me having fast guys in vets to race against is more motivating than having them mixed in with elite. Shows you whats still possible as your youth fades away in body even if the mind is willing... and thus motivates you to try harder.

And at the end of the day its all fun, we are not racing for sheep stations

 

[24alpha]

I don't think it's a matter of sandbagging. These guys have every right to race in what ever category they choose to race in. They also have the right to have a clean race run that doesn't have slower riders in it. Hence why I mentions a Vets A & B.

I think vets should start at the age of 35.

This too isn't a bad idea either.

 

[furry forester]

We ran Vets A and Vets B for a few seasons in Adelaide and it worked really well, lots of guys who had been off the bike for a few years or came to the sport later in life had somewhere to go. But you only need a few races where the numbers dwindle and all of a sudden you have 2 classes for 6 or 7 people...... Bingo back to one class this year! And with Vets racers it seems that if a race is too hard, easy, push up, coincides with a BBQ at a mates place, etc then you can easilly loose enough guys to make 2 classes non-viable. On the other hand there are 6-10 guys who came to "most" Vets B races who just aren't racing at all this year and I think the loss of a Vets B class is a contributing factor.
If you have the numbers push for it! Vets A if you were expert or elite when you were young and fit and rode lots, Vets B if you were a sport rider when you were at your best is the way we looked at it - oh and the B in Vets B stands for Beer.

 

[Wikid Z]

I have no problem with the quick guys as they have the right to be there. As for the 35+ it wouldn't have made much a difference as there were a couple of 39 year olds that aren't slow.

I hope they but the quick guys at the head of the field so I don't get in there way in the coming Vic series.

I'm after your number Hux, then I know I wont be in there way

As for competing I am only doing it for the enjoyment and I know that the only way I would ever make the podium is if I way the only one racing. Does this bother me, no. I enjoy the company I am competing against and have made some good friends and it gets me out of the house.

 

[dunndog]

oh and the B in Vets B stands for Beer.

Hahaha that gave me a good laugh

 

[Kram]

Sport class is for beginners of all ages.

Vets should be for competetive old farts, or old farts that are happy to get their ass kicked in hopes they will be challenged to get better themselves. Keep the class classy. Haven't they earned it?

 

[bitumen]

Vets should be for competetive old farts, or old farts that are happy to get their ass kicked in hopes they will be challenged to get better themselves.?

Hey Kram, call me an old fart and I just keep getting older,35+ but...
been riding mtb 11 months now,won the vets cat in a recent 100km mtb race.Happy to get my ass kicked? never raced that distance before,won by 20-30 min AND beat all the open category and a couple of elite.
I tell you that coz your generalisations of vets categories bore me.How are your results?

 

[spinner]

Sport class is for beginners of all ages.

Vets should be for competetive old farts, or old farts that are happy to get their ass kicked in hopes they will be challenged to get better themselves. Keep the class classy. Haven't they earned it?

100% agreed , Kram.

Hey Kram, call me an old fart and I just keep getting older,35+ but...
been riding mtb 11 months now,won the vets cat in a recent 100km mtb race.Happy to get my ass kicked? never raced that distance before,won by 20-30 min AND beat all the open category and a couple of elite.
I tell you that coz your generalisations of vets categories bore me.How are your results?

Good for you , champ.

 

[Kram]

Hey Kram, call me an old fart and I just keep getting older,35+ but...
been riding mtb 11 months now,won the vets cat in a recent 100km mtb race.Happy to get my ass kicked? never raced that distance before,won by 20-30 min AND beat all the open category and a couple of elite.
I tell you that coz your generalisations of vets categories bore me.How are your results?

Yeah nice one. I'm actually older than you. I guess you missed the part where I said it's for "COMPETETIVE" old farts or...

Either you're competitive or you're not. Apparently you are in the lung busting category. Sorry to bore you, but I happen to believe that vets have earned the right for their class to remain as an 'A' grade class for their age group and that people can either give it a go, or step out of it and race sport class.

Where did I generalize? Are you unhappy with my term of endearment to us old farts? Would you feel better if I called you a 'mature adult' rider? Except you don't sound like you are at all. Have a brag if you want to make yourself feel better. I know my results and anyone who's raced against me knows it too, but whether you know or care I would have cared about in high school. These days I couldn't give a shit.

 

[dl79]

Sport class is for beginners of all ages.

Vets should be for competetive old farts, or old farts that are happy to get their ass kicked in hopes they will be challenged to get better themselves. Keep the class classy. Haven't they earned it?

I agree, the Vets class shouldn't be split into 2. If someone is feeling out of their depth in Vets they should step into Sport class. I don't believe the fast Vets should have pressure on them to race Elite if they don't want to as we (over 30's) have earned the right to race our own category if we wish. There will always be a wide variety of times in age based categories as your entry is based on age and not skill level. I am 30 and choose to continue racing elite class to push myself but will one day step back to Vets when I can't cut it with the pinner kiddies any more.

Dave

 

[24alpha]

There's some great discussion going on in this thread. There's no need to drag it into the gutter. Keep it civial and respectful.

A lot of people in here seem to think that most of the Vets that race have been riding for 10+ years, this is not always the case.
I've been racing Vets for 3yrs in Vic, since when has it been "classy"! lol And then there's the XC v DH, totally different.
The sport class in the VDHS isn't your typical sport class either. This is a great reflection of the quality of our series and riders.

 

[Oldas]

So should riders that qualify by age be made to step up? Should there be 2 categories of Vets? Or should there just be status quo? What's it like in other states?

Hux

How many times have we seen pro male and females pair up and enter 'just good friends' or 'husband and wife'.

If a person enters vets and runs times close to elite then the jokes on him/her anyway isn't it? Nothing to be proud of there..

Unfortunately it's part of racing.

2 cents

 

[Kram]

If a person enters vets and runs times close to elite then the jokes on him/her anyway isn't it? Nothing to be proud of there..

I don't get the joke. Why shouldn't someone who's 38 be proud of taking out a state vet series racing against some 30 year olds and some 39 year olds?

Racing elite is for people who dedicate serious time and effort to train AND are willing to take risks to end up on top against a bunch of high testosterone fuelled hammerheads. Someone who has acqured a high level of skill over a long period of time that they can still tap in a more chilled environment doesn't sound like a joke to me. I find it unfortunate that some people have the attitude that vets is not a serious class that someone should not be proud to win. After all, they are racing their peers. 24 year old pinners who work part time and have no family are not exactly the peers of a 37 year old, regardless of how much skill they have hung on to as they've aged. I would be very proud to take out a national vet title. Much more so than coming 15th to a bunch of young guns with no regard for self preservation or paying a mortgage.

At what point do you think someone should be proud to beat their peers? If a 49 year old can beat 20% of elite riders, do you think the joke is still on them if they win masters? What about a 51 year old in super-masters that can beat 80% of the vet riders? Should they race the thritysomethings? Honest question about your point of view.

 

[scblack]

And I will ask my question again:

Why should it be only Vets expected to place themselves in Elite if they are quick - how about the quick u17s or u19s, some of whom could podium in Elite?

Why is this only a question asked of Vets riders?