Eagle XO1 - Keep old chain on??

[Rossm]

I replaced the chain on my Eagle 12 speed on the weekend, as the chain checker showed it had worn. Lining up the old & new chain showed about 1/2 cm growth - so it was definitely worn - about 1%. Looking at the SRAM manual I should have replaced it at 0.75.

The sand around here is brutal on drive train wear. I clean the chain after each ride with a Park chain scrubber & de-greaser, then re-lube, but of course sand gets kicked up early into the next ride & starts the grinding!

Shifting works perfectly with the new chain, but the smallest (10 tooth) cog now skips under very moderate load.

Sooo... I'm thinking I should put back the worn chain & just run it until the cassette & chain are both totally cactus. Given cost of SRAM 12 speed chain, it seems marginal to replace chains at the 0.75% mark if I can keep a single chain going.

I don't think I have much option now but to put the old chain back (unless I live with the skipping) - it would be dumb to replace the cassette at this point, if I can get drive train to work reliably with the old chain. New chain can then wait until I absolutely need a new cassette.

SRAM manual says to replace cassette when the chain is replaced, and to replace the chain at 0.75 - WTF?? I also see comments that people are replacing Eagle cassettes after 2 or 3 chains, but that's when they replace the chain at 0.75 wear.

What do you reckon? Keep the chain on until both it & cassette are completely worn? Or replace chains frequently? At $90 a pop for an XO1 chain, replacing chains is likely to get expensive.

I also see some reviews saying the coated XX1 chains last way longer than the XO1 - so maybe that's an option, use XX1 chain & keep it running on the cassette until both are fully worn??

 

[Staunch]

Might be a dumb question, but are you sure there are no tight links in the new chain? Especially where you've joined it?
A tight link will cause slipping in the lower rings as there's less surface area to contract, and especially as the chain has to bend further to properly conform to the smaller ring.

 

[teK--]

Put old chain back on and ride until it dies or before a big event. Next time have several chains and rotate them every 300 or so KMs in your case with all that sand .

I can wear out 3 chains and a chainring but my cassette still could go for another couple of chains.

 

[Rossm]

Might be a dumb question, but are you sure there are no tight links in the new chain? Especially where you've joined it?
A tight link will cause slipping in the lower rings as there's less surface area to contract, and especially as the chain has to bend further to properly conform to the smaller ring.

No such thing as a dumb question!! Thanks for the advice.

I have not checked for that, so will put the bike up on the stand & have a close look. It did cross my mind while riding that I may have put on the quicklink upside down, but nope - on checking on the trail - it was correctly installed. What I did not do was check just how freely the link was moving - should have thought of that!!

 

[Flow-Rider]

See if you can buy the small cog separate and replace the chain, if you leave the old chain on the bike for too long it will make the front chain ring noisy. I've heard of a lot of people replacing the chain at .5 wear on the 12 speed cassettes. I ran into problems with a 10sp cassette at just above .75 with a YBN chain but when I fitted a Shimano chain it was OK.

 

[Rossm]

Put old chain back on and ride until it dies or before a big event. Next time have several chains and rotate them every 300 or so KMs in your case with all that sand .

I can wear out 3 chains and a chainring but my cassette still could go for another couple of chains.

Thanks for that advice. How many Ks's do you get with the 3 chains doing that? Do you find a brand new chain still works well on the cassette after you have worn through the original 3 chains?

 

[Rossm]

See if you can buy the small cog separate and replace the chain, if you leave the old chain on the bike for too long it will make the front chain ring noisy. I've heard of a lot of people replacing the chain at .5 wear on the 12 speed cassettes. I ran into problems with a 10sp cassette at just above .75 with a YBN chain but when I fitted a Shimano chain it was OK.

Sadly can't replace these cogs individually on an Eagle - its all machined from one piece of metal!!

 

[teK--]

Thanks for that advice. How many Ks's do you get with the 3 chains doing that? Do you find a brand new chain still works well on the cassette after you have worn through the original 3 chains?

In my case it was an XT 11 SPD drivetrain so not a direct comparison. But the point is I got just over 3000kms out of 3 chains (each worn to 0.75) before I replaced the chainring. Although the cassette looked only half worn I sold that and bought a new one to match new everything else.

 

[ozzybmx]

The small cog is 'shark finned' so it will have hooked lips worn on the teeth.

Grab a small file and file the lip off the teeth, might even want to check the rest of the cassette while you have it off. This will stop your chain being sucked down as you pedal and jumping up on the teeth.

It will also let you run the new chain on the cassette and stop wear on your chainring too.

I dont have a 12psd bike yet, but change my chains at 0.75, bottom end chains too like Sram 1110... $9 from Ze Germans and carry stock of them, reckon I must have 10 spares in my garage.

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

How much are you using the wee cog ?

I hardly use mine, if I had that problem I simply wouldn't use that gear but that's coz I'm too slow to need it.

The 50 is another story, I basically live in that gear

 

[Goats]

I’m a run it until the shifting starts to annoy me guy.
3000kms into a X01 cassette, chain and chain ring 1500km old
Drivetrain is cleaned after every ride.
I don’t think either method is wrong..whatever works for you

 

[notime]

I'm running an Eagle XX1 cassette and have been changing the chain around .5 or before, it's cheap insurance and I have 5000 km's on my cassette now and it's still shift well and even with my immense power I have no skipping. It's only on its 4th chain and 3 chain rings, one chainring I changed sizes, it wasn't a wear thing. The Eagle chains have lasted longer than any chains I've had in the past, quite impressed actually.

Cycling Deal now have gold YBN 12 speed chains pretty cheap so I have one of those to put on next. It's a lot of chains before you reach the price of a replacement cassette.

 

[Rossm]

The small cog is 'shark finned' so it will have hooked lips worn on the teeth.

Grab a small file and file the lip off the teeth, might even want to check the rest of the cassette while you have it off. This will stop your chain being sucked down as you pedal and jumping up on the teeth.

It will also let you run the new chain on the cassette and stop wear on your chainring too.

I dont have a 12psd bike yet, but change my chains at 0.75, bottom end chains too like Sram 1110... $9 from Ze Germans and carry stock of them, reckon I must have 10 spares in my garage.

Thanks - I'll check for any lips on the small cog!

 

[Rossm]

How much are you using the wee cog ?

I hardly use mine, if I had that problem I simply wouldn't use that gear but that's coz I'm too slow to need it.

The 50 is another story, I basically live in that gear

I ride about 20km on the road to get from home to the trails & back - so its used reasonably often. None of the otehr cogs seem to have this issue - I will have to re-check the tune of the drive train more carefully. Was all riding fine on the old chain, and when I changed the chain it all shifted fine on the workstand, so I did not alter any adjustments after the changeover - and its just this one issue of jumping under pressure on that one cog when riding. However I guess I should re-check everything carefully!!

 

[Rossm]

I'm running an Eagle XX1 cassette and have been changing the chain around .5 or before, it's cheap insurance and I have 5000 km's on my cassette now and it's still shift well and even with my immense power I have no skipping. It's only on its 4th chain and 3 chain rings, one chainring I changed sizes, it wasn't a wear thing. The Eagle chains have lasted longer than any chains I've had in the past, quite impressed actually.

Cycling Deal now have gold YBN 12 speed chains pretty cheap so I have one of those to put on next. It's a lot of chains before you reach the price of a replacement cassette.

Thanks - I'll check out the YBN chains as well.

For SRAM chains - 5 XO1 chains or 4 XX1 chains cost the same as an XO1 cassette. I see the YBN are $25 cheaper than XO1 chains, so that might help a bit, assuming they last as long as the SRAM chains!

I might also try a GX cassette when the time comes to replace this one. By all accounts it shifts as well as the XO1, - just adds an extra 90gm or so un-sprung mass. I'm not racing, so the weight gain is not so important to me. I don't think I would notice any difference in small bump sensitivity from extra 90gm

 

[Rossm]

OK - quick update.

I checked for stiff links - all OK.
I washed the chain again in de-greaser (did this originally), dried it & re-lubed it
I carefully redid all the the shifter tuning. Only real change was that I set the lower limit screw to allow the chain to move just a hair more to the outside for the 10 tooth cog. Everything else seemed OK, but I did change the cable tension so cable was too loose to move to the largest cogs, then increased tension until it shifted crisply. This means it also shifts up (to smaller cogs) as quick as possible - this is because tension is as as loose as possible for upshifts, while still working crisply for downshifts).
Hanger alignment was fine, and the derailleur is sitting straight. B-tension was also fine & no changes required. Checked front chainguide & all OK there.

Went for a longish ride - still slipping just a bit when under a lot of power in 10-tooth. All other cogs just fine (as they were previously).

SO - I'll keep this chain on the bike, and ensure that I only use the 10 tooth when I don't have to use a lot of power. Easy to do - it might just limit my top speed a bit when on the tarmac.

I have not yet attempted to file the teeth on the cog to take of any burs - I might look at that at a later date.

 

[The Duckmeister]

Sure-fire way to kill a chain is to wash it in degreaser......

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

Uh oh

 

[Minlak]

Sure-fire way to kill a chain is to wash it in degreaser......

I was thinking this but didn’t want to say it. Cause you know being that I am often wrong

 

[Rossm]

Huh - that's interesting. So you guys reckon that the chain lube is not enough to protect the chain? Issue with the out of the box grease is its SOOO tacky, the sand round here gets stuck onto it & just grinds away. Also chain as it came with factory grease was very stiff.

I wash my chain after every ride, dry it & apply Muckoff, which then has chance to dry prior to next ride.