Bike riders running red lights

[flamin'trek]

It's a tough one. Follow all the rules and ride safely don't always fit perfectly. I don't agree with running red lights. I will admit that I bend the rules for safety. My commute home sees me turning right at a busy 2 lane roundabout. I have only used the correct road rules a few times there, I consider it is much safer (for myself mostly) to pick a gap in traffic, cross to the footpath on the other side then cross the road at the pedestrian refuge on the exit road. Riding on footpath is illegal, probably as well as crossing the road as I do. I don't disrupt traffic in doing so by picking gaps etc, but feel that the process is so much safer.

It should be black and white when it comes to the law, but until motorists accept that cyclists have the same rights and treat them with respect it wont be black and white for me.

 

[g-fish]

^ Couldn't agree more on that one.

I break rules, as we have said we all do. But 90 percent of the time I break the rules because its safer for me to do so. At the end of the day, I dont care what other drivers have thought of me, so long as i'm still alive at thee end of the day. I'm quite happy to sit in traffic and wait for my turn at the lights if I feel that the drivers and the flow of traffic doesnt pose a risk to me. However, if I feel that by lingering with the bogans, buses and fuck wits who text while drive i'm in danger I will do anything I can to get out of there - ride on the wrong side of the rode, lane split, skip traffic lights or ride on the foot path. Yeah, sometimes I make the wrong judgement, or it gets me into more shit with those aforementioned bogans when they catch up. But id rather have an angry bogan throw something at me because they saw me be a law breaking cyclist than to be cleaned up by the same person because they were too busy updating their facebook status and didn't see me at all.

I've been dilliberatly hit in rode rage twice. Once I was riding on the left of a wide road, obiding by all road rules and the driver swerved and hit me side-on for absolutely no fault of my own. The second time I held up a driver on purpose because i'd seen him try to run over another cyclist further up the street.. Incredibly stupid, I agree. But he was a total fuckwit.

And after saying all that, I will say that 10 percent of the time I will break the rules for my own benefit. Whether to speed up my journey. Or because I get a rush out of it (hooligan, I hear them say). I have been pulled over by the 5-0, and I made no attempt at arguing.

Sent from my U20i using Tapatalk

 

[Big JD]

All Fixie riders are hipster wan*kers

I ride a brakeless fixie - I don't have a mustache (but I would like to be able to grow a big bushy beard), I don't run red lights or ride in a reckless manner. So why the singled out hate?

I could say the same thing about the "commuter" crowd with their panniers, cable tied helmets and stupid looking rolled up suit pants..................

But that would be stereotyping and kinda stupid as the majority of people just see us as "cyclists"

Fear not Brasco - the hipster fixie talk is just stirring - I just thought it was an interesting observation that 80% of the observed red light runners were on fixies - perhaps they couldnt stop - please dont get me wrong, SS road bikes are the most efficient form of inner city commuting.
They most however ensure they have a moustache, jeans rolled up, boat shoes (brown) and preppie cardigan to run those lights.

 

[Dozer]

Why do we constantly single out one type of road user, (and a small minority at that)?

My point is that we need to complain about all lawbreakers, not just cyclists. A car, truck bus going through a red light or not stopping at a stop sign has the potential to do far more damage than a cyclist. In Paris they are seriously talking about trialling a system whereby cyclists can treat stop signs and red lights as Give Way signs. The 'Idaho Stop' in the US is another example of this. The problem with road rules is that that they are biased towards high powered vehicles such as cars and trucks and buses. I would hazard a guess that all of you drive cars? I bet you don't get all high and mighty about breaking the law when you do 65-70km/h in a 60 zone? How many of you do exactly 110 km/h on the freeway? Ditto for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign (especially when there is no other traffic). Speeding in any form or not stopping COMPLETELY is BREAKING THE LAW. So, please don't get all goody two shoes about a very small minority who decide that it is ok to break the law when it suits them. 99% of cyclists who do go through red lights have scanned ahead and made a risk assessment that suits them - they don't blindly ride through at speed without thinking about the safety aspect. If they get it wrong the only person hurt is themselves and they are very unlikely to do major harm to anyone else - this is not the case for a car/truck/bus. Yes, we know they are breaking the law (naughty, naughty people) but the next time you go to criticise them have a good look at your speedo.

Frensham, this ain't a dig at you, its just some points to add to the conversation.
Roadies are singled out more than any other type of cyclists because they are seen more by other community members. That could be one side of the coin........the other could be that it is an increasing amount of roadies are constantly doing the wrong thing and totally pissing Australian motorists and other road users off just be being obstinate arseholes. To me, the latter applies where I live as they are brainless twits who think and act as though "It won't happen to me". Is is not to simple to understand that the rules are in place to protect everone using the road? Chances are you'll get home okay if you enjoy your ride and ride by the rules. I do!
When I was learning to drive and under instruction from an instructor I learnt some valuable stuff. I knew how to operate a vehicle back then but the most important stuff I learnt was how to perceive the road and other users. Yeah, I've got car control, can get myself out of the pooh blah blah blah but learning to action things out of the ordinary was the best stuff to learn. I was put in many situations that taught me to respect others around me and keep my shit together. One thing that sticks with me is the instructor chipped me for taking a little too long doing my three point turn and I said "Hey, no one is a perfect driver" and he made me pull over and bluntly pointed out that he is a perfect driver on registered roads. He also raced cars so his control was already great but as a road user he is perfect. From then on I promised to be a perfect road user and I'll challenge any one to follow me and find anything against the rules and / or common sense of driving. Can you be a perfect road user? Yep! Can you avoid accidents? Yep! Can you avoid other people involving you in an accident if they are in the wrong? Most likely not......................my point? Just ride / drive / walk to the rules. They are there to protect you and everyone around you.

 

[Big JD]

Original purpose of thread

Was to highlight that we often do not do ourselves any favours by vagrant flaunting of the road rules. We all bend the road rules either for convienience or to ensure safe passage. Sometimes the best form of defence on the roads is to attack/be seen/ensure you take more space/ speed up because being sheepish with a truck is not an option.
SCBlack - I am not a goodie /purist/do gooder for highlighting the road rules. One of those cyclist running the red light almost hit me/panicked and almost got stuck in the tram lines and just missed pedestrians. The walkers were shouting at the cyclist and he just told them to f*ck off. Perception / public opinon. Just look at the streams of support for Warnie after his altercation with a cyclist - people just dont understand how dangerous it can be as a cyclist on our roads. A Gillet Foundation, 1 meter campaign, awareness of doorings, Melbourne looking at spending 2.5 million on cycling specific infrastructure over the next two years. I just think we could all lift our game abit to really drive the change in community opinon. I doesnt take much to acknowledge a driver who does the right thing by you - a simple wave / smile goes a long way.

 

[thecat]

I don't run red lights but is it really worth while letting it upset you that others do? As for giving a bad perception to others... Didn't your mum ever tell you not to worry about what other people think.

Lots of people perceive mountain bikers to be dangerous adrenaline junky/environmental vandals. That doesn't mean I have to shape myself to off set their ignorance.

Too many people with bees in their bonnets about what other people are doing. Get over it.

 

[50burn]

I agree with the original poster. We don't have the luxury/inconvenience of traffic lights out here but I know if there is a battle between me and another road user there is a really good chance I am going to lose.

That is why I make every effort to be seen to be doing the "right" thing on the road, in the hope that car/truck/bus drivers will do the right thing by me, that being not kill me.

 

[Turley]

I don't run red lights but is it really worth while letting it upset you that others do? As for giving a bad perception to others... Didn't your mum ever tell you not to worry about what other people think.

Lots of people perceive mountain bikers to be dangerous adrenaline junky/environmental vandals. That doesn't mean I have to shape myself to off set their ignorance.

Too many people with bees in their bonnets about what other people are doing. Get over it.

The bad perception of others DOES affect me!

Why? Because I commute 4-5 days/week, and the perception of road users towards me affects the probability that I will be hit/killed/injured. I can ride defensively, but I cannot control what other road users do.

If one road users have a negative opinion of cyclists, because they see other cyclists runnings lights/breaking road rules, then they are less likely to take due care around me. This increases the chance that I will be hit, injured and killed on the road. This is why I care about what others do!

We all need to share the road and respect the rules. And breaking the laws in public will not increase the respect of others towards us.

Although the law states that we have the right to ride on the road, we do not currently have the respect of many motorists. We DO need to their respect and no LAW will change the perception of many drivers.

There is NO good reason for running a red (with the exception of avoiding a major accident, which isn't being discussed here).

T

 

[Big JD]

I don't run red lights but is it really worth while letting it upset you that others do? As for giving a bad perception to others... Didn't your mum ever tell you not to worry about what other people think.

Lots of people perceive mountain bikers to be dangerous adrenaline junky/environmental vandals. That doesn't mean I have to shape myself to off set their ignorance.

Too many people with bees in their bonnets about what other people are doing. Get over it.

OK let me get this right - you dont care about perception / how bike riders are percieved / or public opinon. I dont have a bee in my bonnet about someone breaking the rules - I am absolutely amazed at the folks who think we shouldnt care about how we are percieved or how we act. To all the people out there lobbying for positive changes for bike riders - you are saying, I will do what i like / when i like because I dont care what others think. That is a very romatic individualist ideal and should be encouraged in art / life and spiritually - but rules are black and white - you are either in the right or your are breaking those rules - it is as simple as that.
Take that attitude off road and your actions fly in the face of many organisations/clubs/ trail advacacy groups who are tring to change public perception of cyclist the the betterment of our sport/interest. I think we all have to shape ourselves to off set their ignorance and the easiest thing we can do is play by the rules and be civil with others. I would like to see better things for cyclists, I would love to see a safer enviroment and laws changed to faviour us - I want more trails off road and park hubs that support local communities - the last thing I would like to say is "I dont care what you think" - not great stakeholder management.

 

[Knut]

Well said

I don't run red lights but is it really worth while letting it upset you that others do? As for giving a bad perception to others... Didn't your mum ever tell you not to worry about what other people think.

Lots of people perceive mountain bikers to be dangerous adrenaline junky/environmental vandals. That doesn't mean I have to shape myself to off set their ignorance.

Too many people with bees in their bonnets about what other people are doing. Get over it.

That would be a good signature.

 

[wilddemon]

Do I care if you get killed running a red? Not really.

you sound like a total arsehole.

 

[Ridenparadise]

Maybe I am a dork; I don't like seeing bikes running red lights, but I totally get the concept of cutting through traffic and onto verges, paths etc to keep away from cars. Road rules do not apply to bikes as they do to cars because we are more vulnerable. If pedestrians were running in traffic, the road rules would not apply to them either.

Anyway, sadly I heard on the news that another Melbourne cyclist is in critical condition after "colliding with" a car this morning. Why do they always make out bikes hit cars when it is almost 100% the opposite.

 

[muvro]

I have to say, I hate seeing cyclists going through red lights.

I commute 2-3 times a week and always stop at etc. I want to be treated fairly and safely on the roads, so I act accordingly, it's just a courtesy thing. The way I see it, if I want to ride on the road, I should obey the rules as I do in the car. There are some rules that are simply there to protect us from idiots and some that are needed to keep flow and safety. I've seen on numerous occasions cyclists going through a red light only to be nearly cleaned up by a driver with a green arrow coming from the opposite direction. I won't generalise or catagorise the people that do this, as it's all types. Guys dressed in full roady gear, young and old. Occasionally the odd commuter, etc. But if we as a cycling community can act in a way that motorists can't pick on, then there's no reason apart from sheer idiocy that we can't be accepted on the road.

 

[brendonj]

I don't run red lights but is it really worth while letting it upset you that others do? As for giving a bad perception to others... Didn't your mum ever tell you not to worry about what other people think.

Lots of people perceive mountain bikers to be dangerous adrenaline junky/environmental vandals. That doesn't mean I have to shape myself to off set their ignorance.

Too many people with bees in their bonnets about what other people are doing. Get over it.

Two good reasons to worry about this:

First, if I am a pedestrian - which is often. Recently at the Gold Coast my wife, my 2 year old and myself proceeded to cross at a pedestrian crossing (green man showing) when we had to dodge about 3 road bikes cruising through the red light as if they had a green. My son could have been killed or seriously injured if struck as they weren't going slow. (Didn't have time to see if they were SS )

Second when I am riding myself. Context is riding on the road, not on the dirt. If motorists think cyclists are idiots than this effects how they treat me on my bike. This increases the amount of discrespectful behaviour (eg cutting someone off), abusive comments, and potential crashes leading to serious injuries or death.

Having said all that, I strongly believe that the cycling community needs to challenge the way that the rest of the community thinks about cyclists. When people winge about a cyclist breaking this rule or another, we need to challenge them that motorists do the same also - so that we are on equal footing. We are all just road users - some good some bad. But we also need to get our own backyard in order I think.

I also wonder how some of the comments in this forum would affect peoples perception of cyclists.

 

[jonny the boy]

yep, this one really gives me the shits. its hard enough to get respect on the road without these cowboys, its pretty much the only time i feel like abusing a cyclist.

 

[Dozer]

Recently at the Gold Coast my wife, my 2 year old and myself proceeded to cross at a pedestrian crossing (green man showing) when we had to dodge about 3 road bikes cruising through the red light as if they had a green. My son could have been killed or seriously injured if struck as they weren't going slow. (Didn't have time to see if they were SS )

I would have totally grabbed one of those arseholes given the chance and made him suffer. That is a chance I would not have passed up.

 

[beardi]

you sound like a total arsehole.

Thanks for that wonderful contribution. For what it's worth I certainly would feel sorry the innocent motorist who has had their life turned on it's head because a rider made a stupid decision.

 

[mars mtb]

This is actually a topical thread.

It is the one main thing I believe that pi55es of motorists that don't ride and many who do ride. I had a crack at a few over the years but now I think 'meh' and will stand my ground and that is my message to the motorists that we don't all do it. The issue is when and how they do it I reckon, peak hour, blatant running straight through.

I do however cite the law of "crack of dawn with no cars around" governed by the "left turn right turn but not straight ahead caveat".

The fact we are discussing it on this thread is a positive, as when was the last time you saw a thread on the web anywhere in the world with motorists discussing:

that they should not be texting whilst driving
that they should not drink and drive
that they should not speed
that they should not run reds
that they should drive more calmly to eliminate road rage
that they should be more cyclist and pedestrian aware
that they should not harrass, cut off or door cyclists
how they recognise that cycling means less cars on the road so the remaining motorists have less traffic
how they recognise most cyclists have 2 cars and pay rego and insurance but as we don't drive the ecomonomy of scale we contribute financially to infrastructure is enormous

We are responsible for our own actions and that's our positive contribution, we can't boil the ocean and we can't cure world hunger but I'll track stand at the lights and that's my bit, unless of course it is very early in which case I will invoke the "law of the crack of dawn".

 

[thecat]

Two good reasons to worry about this:

First, if I am a pedestrian - which is often. Recently at the Gold Coast my wife, my 2 year old and myself proceeded to cross at a pedestrian crossing (green man showing) when we had to dodge about 3 road bikes cruising through the red light as if they had a green. My son could have been killed or seriously injured if struck as they weren't going slow. (Didn't have time to see if they were SS )

Did you look to the left, look to the right, look to the left again to double check or did you just assume because the green man was flashing the world was safe? What is a truck had been careering out of control? What if the traffic light was broken?




Try walking around in Paris, red lights don't seem to apply to motor bikes and scooters turning left. Step out with the green man without looking at your peril

 

[Big JD]

killed

Thanks for that wonderful contribution. For what it's worth I certainly would feel sorry the innocent motorist who has had their life turned on it's head because a rider made a stupid decision.

Yeah like the driver who recently opened their door on a young rider who got sent under a truck - horrific thing to live with for the rest of your life. Yet the majority of drivers dont look and open their doors - the effect of that simple action can be enormous. I have encouraged my wife and kids to check for cyclists before opening their doors

It is positive to be discussing this I think.