Bike riders running red lights

MB

Intense Australia
To the 5 different cyclist I witnessed running red lights this morning in the Melbourne CBD - get your sh*t together. Other road users are just looking for reasons to justify their negative opiniun of cyclists. You are making it harder for those that are trying to highlight our issues and make cycling more accessible / safer and accepted mode of transport. Four of the five were SS Fixie Hipsters - if that means anything.
Please folks obey the road rules (it aint hard) otherwise we wont have a leg to stand on.
JD
Ride in the same manner you would expect drivers to behave (when commuting anyway)
As cyclists we really need to try to abide by some rules. It sucks, I know and it takes some of the 'freedom' from cycling, but if we act like reckless fools whilst on the road then we are no worse than the motorists that hate us so much. Why should we give them more reason to do so? There is nothing wrong with going fast or having a bit of fun, but brakeless fixie riders give us all a bad name with their reckless riding and stupid moustaches....
 

Big JD

Wheel size expert
Who's passing the buck???

I run red lights at times on my roadie, in Sydney. But in a very careful and restricted manner. Be silly not to really, in certain situations. Never at a major intersection, or dangerously, or in a way that inconveniences others. You have to be careful of course.

Maybe some do it badly, but I'd guess thats a very small minority.
glad i didnt need to reply to that one. Only a bit stupid and a bit illegal, well it would be silly not to really.
 

frensham

Likes Dirt
Why do we constantly single out one type of road user, (and a small minority at that)?

My point is that we need to complain about all lawbreakers, not just cyclists. A car, truck bus going through a red light or not stopping at a stop sign has the potential to do far more damage than a cyclist. In Paris they are seriously talking about trialling a system whereby cyclists can treat stop signs and red lights as Give Way signs. The 'Idaho Stop' in the US is another example of this. The problem with road rules is that that they are biased towards high powered vehicles such as cars and trucks and buses. I would hazard a guess that all of you drive cars? I bet you don't get all high and mighty about breaking the law when you do 65-70km/h in a 60 zone? How many of you do exactly 110 km/h on the freeway? Ditto for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign (especially when there is no other traffic). Speeding in any form or not stopping COMPLETELY is BREAKING THE LAW. So, please don't get all goody two shoes about a very small minority who decide that it is ok to break the law when it suits them. 99% of cyclists who do go through red lights have scanned ahead and made a risk assessment that suits them - they don't blindly ride through at speed without thinking about the safety aspect. If they get it wrong the only person hurt is themselves and they are very unlikely to do major harm to anyone else - this is not the case for a car/truck/bus. Yes, we know they are breaking the law (naughty, naughty people) but the next time you go to criticise them have a good look at your speedo.
 

Brasco_Designs

Likes Dirt
I ride a brakeless fixie - I don't have a mustache (but I would like to be able to grow a big bushy beard), I don't run red lights or ride in a reckless manner. So why the singled out hate?

I could say the same thing about the "commuter" crowd with their panniers, cable tied helmets and stupid looking rolled up suit pants..................

But that would be stereotyping and kinda stupid as the majority of people just see us as "cyclists"
 

furry forester

Likes Dirt
I dont run red lights full stop and especially on a bike, never have accidentally or deliberately. To try and justify your unconcionable behaviour in any way is a joke.

Its illegal. What gives you the right to decide what law you will adhere to and what you are above?
The right to break laws???? What???? Is it impossible that there may be laws you disagree with? That you may flaunt laws, fully accepting that if you are caught there will be consequences (like a fine or being hit by a taxi)?

I dont know if red lights are the place to make a conscience vote about road law reform, but breaking laws has made significant changes to society and I cant understand how amazingly annoyed people get if someone CHOOSES to ignore a law they disagree with.
Im not suggesting that everyone should have a meth lab and go on a killing spree, but reminding that most of the (for example) equal rights law reforms have involved significant illegal behaviour.
 

waldog

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Why do we constantly single out one type of road user, (and a small minority at that)?

My point is that we need to complain about all lawbreakers, not just cyclists. A car, truck bus going through a red light or not stopping at a stop sign has the potential to do far more damage than a cyclist. In Paris they are seriously talking about trialling a system whereby cyclists can treat stop signs and red lights as Give Way signs. The 'Idaho Stop' in the US is another example of this. The problem with road rules is that that they are biased towards high powered vehicles such as cars and trucks and buses. I would hazard a guess that all of you drive cars? I bet you don't get all high and mighty about breaking the law when you do 65-70km/h in a 60 zone? How many of you do exactly 110 km/h on the freeway? Ditto for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign (especially when there is no other traffic). Speeding in any form or not stopping COMPLETELY is BREAKING THE LAW. So, please don't get all goody two shoes about a very small minority who decide that it is ok to break the law when it suits them. 99% of cyclists who do go through red lights have scanned ahead and made a risk assessment that suits them - they don't blindly ride through at speed without thinking about the safety aspect. If they get it wrong the only person hurt is themselves and they are very unlikely to do major harm to anyone else - this is not the case for a car/truck/bus. Yes, we know they are breaking the law (naughty, naughty people) but the next time you go to criticise them have a good look at your speedo.
You make some really good points there.

Where I can't agree is that a bike running a red light can't do any damage, unlike a car etc.... A bike/cyclist running through a red light and hitting a pedestrian will most definitely make a mess, have all in Melbourne forgotten the beach road incident?

I agree that we all probably speed or not completely stop at a stop sign once in a while albeit subconsciously, but these behaviours can't be condoned either. I don't profess to be some angel of law abiding awesomeness, but I can't overlook the inherent risks associated by other individuals misguided choices.
 

scblack

Leucocholic
Frensham has said what I am about to say FAR better and more eloquently than I ever could.
:fat:
To the people crapping on about running a red light. Get a grip for f*ck's sake. If any of you have ever recorded a TV program, you have BROKEN THE LAW. Have any of you EVER ridden a bike without a helmet, even just rolled to the car - if so, you have BROKEN THE LAW.

Bloody hell there's some "puritans" in the threads today. Or are you just going to carry on choosing which laws apparently matter to you today. I don't care what certain hypocrite's want to carry on about, I run SOME red lights. Big deal, cope with that how you wish, and I don't care if you have a problem with that.
 

waldog

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Frensham has said what I am about to say FAR better and more eloquently than I ever could.
:fat:
To the people crapping on about running a red light. Get a grip for f*ck's sake. If any of you have ever recorded a TV program, you have BROKEN THE LAW. Have any of you EVER ridden a bike without a helmet, even just rolled to the car - if so, you have BROKEN THE LAW.

Bloody hell there's some "puritans" in the threads today. Or are you just going to carry on choosing which laws apparently matter to you today. I don't care what certain hypocrite's want to carry on about, I run SOME red lights. Big deal, cope with that how you wish, and I don't care if you have a problem with that.
Forget about all the law abiding crap, do you not care at all about how cyclists are perceived?
 

UncleFeet

Likes Dirt
HA!...I thought that JD meant they were 'running red lights' on the front of their bikes instead of the rear...duh!...country boy I suppose...there is a traffic light set up near here at some roadworks though y'know....
 

beardi

Likes Dirt
I think SCblack and frensham have missed the sentiment of this thread to be honest. We all break laws, no doubt there, however I think what people are jumping up and down about is how that action affects the way cyclists are viewed in the general community.

As cyclists we can all see how you could "skip through" a red reasonably safely. The average citizen doesn't see it that way. My own father thinks we're all idiots and thinks we shouldn't be on the road! The actions of a few have a big effect on the whole and that is what shits me. Do I care if you run a red a no ones sees it? Nope. Do I care if you get killed running a red? Not really. Do I care that it makes news and gives inflammatory idiots like Alan Jones more reason to run their hate campaign - absolutely!

We're fighting an increasingly tough battle to provide safer cycling options for us. How can we demand increased safety measures from our governments, when at the same time taxpayers see cyclists running reds, riding without helmets and deliberately putting themselves at risks? The logical conclusion would be that we don't care about our own safety, so why should they.
 

frensham

Likes Dirt
I think SCblack and frensham have missed the sentiment of this thread to be honest. We all break laws, no doubt there, however I think what people are jumping up and down about is how that action affects the way cyclists are viewed in the general community.
As cyclists we can all see how you could "skip through" a red reasonably safely. The average citizen doesn't see it that way. My own father thinks we're all idiots and thinks we shouldn't be on the road! The actions of a few have a big effect on the whole and that is what shits me. Do I care if you run a red a no ones sees it? Nope. Do I care if you get killed running a red? Not really. Do I care that it makes news and gives inflammatory idiots like Alan Jones more reason to run their hate campaign - absolutely!
We're fighting an increasingly tough battle to provide safer cycling options for us. How can we demand increased safety measures from our governments, when at the same time taxpayers see cyclists running reds, riding without helmets and deliberately putting themselves at risks? The logical conclusion would be that we don't care about our own safety, so why should they.
So, the real issue (as your father might see it) is that the average citizen labels all cyclists based on what they see a very small minority do? Are we living in the 21st century yet? Surely we have gotten past the one bad apple syndrome? I would love to see the research qualifying that the average citizen sees all cyclists as idiots that should not be on the road - can you supply me with the reference?
You can't, on the one hand say, "we're all human and break the law occasionally" and then state that ALL cyclists have to obey the law at all times because the average person is watching and might form the wrong impression.

We demand increased safety measures from our governments because we have a legal right to be on the road not because we need their (or motorists) respect! It is our right to have safe roads, as it is for all road users - we don't have to earn it. All income earners (cyclists, pedestrians, motorists) pay for the roads and infrastructure - do we remove pedestrian crossings because a small minority choose to cross the road 100 metres further up? Do we remove 'Don't Walk' signs because pedestrians will walk anyway?

When the road rules and the infrastructure are more balanced and take into account ALL road users we might just see more cyclists on the road. However, we will always see the minority that choose to 'break' the law - we're only human after all.
 

wkkie

It's Not Easy Being Green
.... - they don't blindly ride through at speed without thinking about the safety aspect. If they get it wrong the only person hurt is themselves and they are very unlikely to do major harm to anyone else - this is not the case for a car/truck/bus. Yes, we know they are breaking the law (naughty, naughty people) but the next time you go to criticise them have a good look at your speedo.
You think there isn't any other damage done apart from the person that is actually hit? I can tell you first hand that it isn't just the person hurt that suffers. How would you live with the fact that the car you were driving hit and / or killed someone? Regardless if it was your fault or theirs?
 

frensham

Likes Dirt
You think there isn't any other damage done apart from the person that is actually hit? I can tell you first hand that it isn't just the person hurt that suffers. How would you live with the fact that the car you were driving hit and / or killed someone? Regardless if it was your fault or theirs?
Being in a collision that results in death or serious injury is a tragedy for all parties. However, if a cyclist is seriously injured or killed becasue he/she took a risk that didn't pay off, this is no different to a driver of a car making the same risk choice and colliding with a bus or a semi. My (original) point was that all road users take risks and put themselves in danger, so why single out one type of road user?
 

wkkie

It's Not Easy Being Green
Being in a collision that results in death or serious injury is a tragedy for all parties. However, if a cyclist is seriously injured or killed becasue he/she took a risk that didn't pay off, this is no different to a driver of a car making the same risk choice and colliding with a bus or a semi. My (original) point was that all road users take risks and put themselves in danger, so why single out one type of road user?
Totally ageee.
 

beardi

Likes Dirt
"I would love to see the research qualifying that the average citizen sees all cyclists as idiots that should not be on the road - can you supply me with the reference?"

No hard evidence of course, but a quick flick through the 100's of comments whenever this issue come up in the papers gives you a sense that a considerable number of people hold this view - including mainstream media.

You can't, on the one hand say, "we're all human and break the law occasionally" and then state that ALL cyclists have to obey the law at all times because the average person is watching and might form the wrong impression.

I don't think it would hurt our cause to be law abiding

We demand increased safety measures from our governments because we have a legal right to be on the road not because we need their (or motorists) respect!


If we had the respect of the whole community we'd already have significant cycle infrastructure. A democratic government makes decisions for the masses and if they were all demanding it, we'd have it.

When the road rules and the infrastructure are more balanced and take into account ALL road users we might just see more cyclists on the road.
Of course. Plenty more running red lights too.
 

sikpuppyonglory

Likes Dirt
at least once a week, I hear on the radio that a cyclist & a car have come together, both use the road, both parties need to be aware of each other. I respect the fact that motorists think we are idiots, but we as motorists are f**king idiots also, whether we ride a bike or not also. I hate it when roadies take up half the lane, but I respect what they are doing & pass safely when I can trying to give them as much leeway as possible, ignorance creates hatred & blame on either party.

We all need to wake up to ourselves if we want to live side by side each other on the roads safely.
 
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