2012 Sunshine Series Official Discussion

flamshmizer

flamshmizer

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Registered Nutcase said:
How about we start with something simple like a dedicated website.

Harvey what is the point of paying out for a full membership when you don't get your moneys worth? at best we can race 4 rounds this year. that does not cover the cost of this Mandatory membership. How can you or the organizers justify this?
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Schoey is correct and so is Harvey. I know from sitting in on TMBC meetings that when we have to cancel due to rain it costs the club a lot. Busses and trucks have deposits, the SES set aside their day for us and want some compensation, first aid guy, the toilet people, the food the list goes on. Yes all of that can be got back next time but deposits are lost, and it does cost the club a lot of money to postpone an event. If you know the history of Toowoomba rounds you know that its frequently cancelled.

The other point about the business and its customers. Thats true, a business runs for profit and its main motive is to make moeny, to make money it keeps the customer happy. A Club is run by members for the benefit of members. There is no bottom line to hold up. It is run purely for people to enjoy the sport.

As I said its a catch 22. A question for you. If there were more races and events would you feel the need to volunteer more and buy a yearly membership? Or since it was already happening without you anyway would you simply sit back and attend?

I'm far from a patron saint myself, I haven't been helping out as much as I could. But after seeing how the sunny series is spiraling away lately due to lack of involvement, I'm more keen than ever to help.
 
Steve-0

Steve-0

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binner said:
geebus, and we haven't even touched on "Prizes" yet.
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haha I have a cupboard full of trophies and medals but nowadays you pretty much have to win a Redbull event to get one of those! Tyre's are cool and I don't race for the prize but I think they should bring back the traditional stuff. Same cost, little bit more hassle.

MTBA Membership and pre-entry helps everyone and really it's not that expensive. I mean, it may seem like it but $115 for a full year? That's one light night out on the grog or like 1 set of handlebars... The Benefits are huge! No hassle, More support for clubs, insurance, better organized races etc.

Knowing exactly how many people will show up means a smoother run race and hopefully profit for the club. Profit to the club means more races!!
 
Registered Nutcase

Registered Nutcase

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flamshmizer said:
Schoey is correct and so is Harvey. I know from sitting in on TMBC meetings that when we have to cancel due to rain it costs the club a lot. Busses and trucks have deposits, the SES set aside their day for us and want some compensation, first aid guy, the toilet people, the food the list goes on. Yes all of that can be got back next time but deposits are lost, and it does cost the club a lot of money to postpone an event. If you know the history of Toowoomba rounds you know that its frequently cancelled. I agree that there is costs that a club with lose out, I hate that as much as anyone! I will admit I don't know the history of Toowoomba.

The other point about the business and its customers. Thats true, a business runs for profit and its main motive is to make moeny, to make money it keeps the customer happy. A Club is run by members for the benefit of members. There is no bottom line to hold up. It is run purely for people to enjoy the sport. I belive any business, wether it's for profit or not for profit(which all clubs are?) they both must make enough turnover to cover costs. This is the most fundemetal business ideal and although a club is not there to get rich they need to make enough money to cover all costs or are telling my that clubs make/ should make a peputal loss?

As I said its a catch 22. A question for you. If there were more races and events would you feel the need to volunteer more and buy a yearly membership? Or since it was already happening without you anyway would you simply sit back and attend?

Thats a very fair question, and It caused me to think for a while. Ill answer it in sections:

I would happy volunteer more if the clubs rewarded me. I'm not talking about anything amazing, A thank you and a sausage sandwich and a coke and ill dig all day every day and the ability to be the first group to ride the new track I have helped build/ repair/ maintain etc. you could even have a rego of sorts for them and ask for a gold coin donation for food. I know from experiance how much it costs to cater for 50 people with drinks and sausages and its not that much. 2 sausages each and 1 can each. it should be around $110-150 depending on where you get them from.

I would buy a yearly membership as soon as its possible to make it economical to do that, which means 2 club races and the state rounds, so that we can have 1 wash out.
Not to give you my life story but the first time I got my membership i ended up racing amost 12 races. the year before I raced 4. for me and alot of younger people its the economics.

Can you answer me this, if you stop them from having a punt on a state round and to this year no club rounds(that I remember) how are we going to attract new people?

For me personally it dosn't matter if its already running. I would want to help out, even if its only marsheling. Saying that Ourimbah had an amazing idea, compensating you for missing a round with = first points.

I'm far from a patron saint myself, I haven't been helping out as much as I could. But after seeing how the sunny series is spiraling away lately due to lack of involvement, I'm more keen than ever to help. Agree, while I'm probly coming across as a gaint douche. I only want racing and riding to improve in Brisbane, I belive whole heartedly that NSW has alot of things we can learn from them,I think they are a good 5 years into our future and we have alot that we can learn from their sucesses and failers, but I think before we implement them we need to look at our situation and see the differences and simlaraites and see if it is benifital to the sport, even at the cost of short term pain.
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please forgive the spelling I can't do it to save my life.
 
R

rsquared

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There has been some really good points made so far. My quick two cents for some ideas of what needs/could happen:
- dedicated website. We all know we need one. I'd say 95% of members probably have facebook accounts, start a sunshine series account and people can get updates from there phones, computers anytime.
- Grassroots racing. Club rounds. Not going to lie, I haven't been responsible for organising a race before surely club races can't be too difficult. The organisers showed that a race can be organised and run in a few days with Blackstone.
- We all know the difficulties with the rain in QLD. The issue most of the time seems to be the shuttle road being inaccessible by the 4wd rather than the actual track itself. correct? Is it possible to have a backup track option for each round to fall back on should it rain, which has a bitumen shuttle road? Beerburrum? Yeah sure we would all prefer not to race 4 or 5 rounds of the same track for a series but I'm sure everyone would prefer that than no races at all. I'm not sure of the licenses/paperwork required for this or if this is a viable option.
- We need to seriously look at other states and see what they are doing with there races, both state and club scenes and apply what is working for them to the sunshine series.
- As for MTBA compulsory membership, why don't clubs start hooking up with local businesses to provide something similar to the 'bro card' for those who have been to whistler. It's a membership card you could give members when they sign up to your club which gets them discounts and deals at a variety of businesses. Eg. Bike shops 10% off or free service once a year, 10% off at local bottle shops, food stores, basically anything that bikers shop at. It should be looked at favourably by the shops getting on board cos it will bring more business in and it would also help how mountain biking and mountain bikers are seen across a wider range of the community.

All good ideas so far guys, keep them coming. Some of this needs to start being actioned as well rather than just lip service.

my2c's
 
sherman

sherman

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Now that his season is over and its still fairly fresh in everyones minds, I thought I would gravedig this thread back to the top.

Same deal as when I started it, keep it simply to what suggestions you have about the running of the events and matters that concern the events.

Hopefully we can come out and have a ripper 2012 season.
 
Deadman

Deadman

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There is no disagreement that we need a race season with a sensible amount of races on a variety of tracks. What this thread is discussing is the structure that underpins all the activities involved with running a race. Yes there is an unbrella body MTBA. But at the bottom the grass roots, it is not about individuals, it is about individuals belonging to a club. I believe that only a club member should be able to race. For the future of DH, individuals need to make a commitment to a club; hand over their hard-earned for membership and insurance. This will make a club more financial and insurance premiums potentially cheaper. It appears that the clubs with enthusiastic members have a club track. GCMC has Illinbah, DRMC has Beerburum and I'm sure there is a club behind the Toowoomba track. And these clubs have the people that can organise a race.

Just some thoughts.

DM
 
dirt lover

dirt lover

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I think that the full year license is a brilliant idea as it gives the clubs a bit of money back, better insurance, etc. But I think there should be day licenses for the first 1 or 2 races as a way for people to give it a go. I know this year I had a couple of mates who would have been interested in doing one of the later rounds after they'd gotten a bit better but didn't want to pay $100 for one or two rounds so decided to wait until next year to start. Would have improved both the numbers at the events (which I'm assuming is crucial in squiring sponsorship) and it would have improved these riders abilities.
 
Deadman

Deadman

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Couldn't a club holding a low key club race day on their track cater for riders wanting to try a DH race. Even a low key club day needs management, shuttles, medical aid of some form. Can a day licence be used at this level to cover some costs and insurance for non-club members? Clubs could use a club race day as a membership drive and apply some creative fund raising ideas like skills clinics on the day.

Having strong cashed up clubs with highly motivated members is the major element of having a great race series. The weather can't be controlled and it is a risk DHers must take when signing up for a race - it pisses everybody off but the club/organisers should not lose out. We all benefit if the club/organisers are financially strong.

DM
 
needaride

needaride

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As everyone has said; day licenses and club races are the answer to DH in QLD (or anywhere) growing - but it comes down to having people put in the time and effort to organise and run these events... And before anyone can organise anything - getting regular access to tracks to decent tracks seems to be a BIG issue up here.
 
iridedh

iridedh

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My 2c are simple;
1-Better website, showing dates, venues, Maybe links for clubs and all, and very important results!!!
I couldn't find the result for the whole series!!!! Anywhere in the net!! Let's make people proud of their achievements and all!
Maybe add some YouTube link from a race highlights!!!
2-bigger discounts for full members and if u buy as a series pack!! More expensive day licenses and individual races!! Purely because most serious people are the ones with less chances to get hurt, they have better bikes better armour and etc, plus they take it serious, you won't see them drinking beer before a race!!! So lets reward those guys!!! They the ones that have being paying their membership for years even in the currant situation where we don't get many races or support!!!

For everyone involved, I might not be able to go dig and help out with the race, because I'm a single father with 2 young kids!! But if u asks I more than happy to help with a website, with maintaining a web site, editing clips of a race and etc (I work with I T)

If we all get together I'm sure we could make something awesome
Cheers
 
L

LessRideMoreDig

Squid
No. of Races: 5
Locations: Just the good ones - I dont mind repeating tracks, it beats pedalling!
Time of Year: Same as usual. I remember even in the Drought the Sunshine Series brought rain ;)
Gap between races: 3 week cycle as previously mentioned.
Cost per Race: Race 65 - Practice 45
Comments:

I basically agree with everything Registered Nutcase has said (except entry fee's are right on the border line for me at the current rate).

You are killing new blood from entering our races by the introduction of the day licence. Everyone I know riding in SEQ has gone through the same process in DH - you buy a DH bike - ask the shops where to ride - get no where - hear about a race, buy a day licence and enter - make lots of friends - then find tracks to ride this way - get bored of the track or find a slight competitive spirit and buy another day licence to race something awesome like k/worth or Illinbah. Its not easy!!

Having said that, I can see the great benefit to clubs, and I beleive its cheaper for the serious racers that go to lots of events. In anycase if Day Licence is not available, I certainly wont be racing in 2012. :(

Other than that I think we have a good setup - I would LOVE to see split timing of the track and a chainless category, oh and TWP (although I know its not goin to happen.... maybe if enough people beg them, they will organise our series out of pure sympathy?) ;)

Cheers
Sunni.
 
ac_DHer

ac_DHer

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I completely agree with both previous posts, without the ability to get a day license you will all but kill off most people getting into downhill and lets face it a lot of the people getting started are teens with no full time job etc. (We were all there once). The MTB state champs really gave me a bit a of a look into where SEQ downhill was at. There was max 120 riders and next to no crowd. I remember when we use to get 150+ to a fun day at Illinbah (with a bigger crowd), so something definitely isn't working at the moment.

This year i found myself out of downhill for the start of the year and had the ambition of racing one of the rounds at the end of the season but for 90 + 100 couldn't justify doing it. (So how many people did the exact same thing i wonder)?

Of course i understand the clubs need $$ otherwise we don't have any races, but like you guys said maybe the approach of being a member is made more enticing i.e cheaper race fees, a local bikes shop discount or something to give it a little more value at little to no cost may be the way to go. Also i'm not going to lie I’ve been to a lot a races now and how many times have you been asked to become a club member when you get your number plate at rego???(even if it's a flyer the club puts together) It’s simple stuff like that, which could make the difference over the season.

As yeah new website, with more info, details, club information and there's new thing called Facebook which goes alright too. :p

My 2 cents.


Jamie
 
S

Stinky

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before the days of MTBA you were able to buy a 3 race licence as an introduction to cycling (covered all fomats), but it was a once off deal. When you had done your 3 races, you had to fork out for a full licence. From memory this carried over for consecutive years (ie you could not survive on a 3 race licence each year). This was administered by Cycling Queensland so the admin workload was not on the clubs. A return to this sort of system could be the compromise for new riders. The key would be MTBA stepping in to help out grass roots racing with someof this admin support.

It hasnt happened in 10 years so I am not holding my breath but it would be nice....
 
Deadman

Deadman

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Day Licenses - is there a way for them to work for all ?

Before each season could a Day License register be set up. Work out a Day License rego fee that covers the admin costs of keeping the data base and riders pay this fee for each race they are interested in for the season. If they turn up for the race day this fee is deducted from the overall cost, if they don't turn up this fee goes into consolidated revenue for prizes or event costs etc.

Can this idea be developed? From what I read in this thread it appears that having no day licenses reduces interest and participation in racing.

DM
 
trailblazinBros

trailblazinBros

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Bring back Kandanga

not to beat my own drum but I would like to see a race at kandanga like back in 2008... It was enough to get Sic Mick Hannah back on the bike... the trails have been improved and are ready to rip skids on. I also think that day licences are required for the sport to survive. As much as I love the sport I would not be a member of any club that would accept someone like me as a member..
 
Rowey

Rowey

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Hi Guys,

Add additional DH and XC rounds to the series or restructure the series so to win the series out right (not the State Champs) you must race majority of the rounds with in the state of QLD. From Carins to Gold Coast, as it was configured in the 90's.

Would also be great to re-introduce some the older DH trails, like Mapleton, Magpie Creek (longer version from the very top), etc. In addition consider removing 4x racing and bringing back Dual Slalom, just as entertaining at 4x but more about speed and ability.

Just a thought.
 
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