2012 Sunshine Series Official Discussion

sherman

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I know that 2012 is a long way away, but instead of waiting till the end of the year to start organising the sunshine series, we should start posting up what we want to see included. With this extra time and input, hopefully the 2012 series will be a blast.

Please don't post up crap within this thread about this years series or start a fight which seems to happen on the majority of the threads on here.

Just follow a simple format of something along the lines of:

No. of Races:
Locations:
Time of Year:
Gap between races:
Cost per Race:
Comments: (just a quick overview of what you would like to see in the series)

Hopefully this will help the organisers of the series to get it back on track and also try and cater for everybodys wants.

Also, please don't post up arguing someones point, as everybody is entitled to an opinion and this will also just start another 'shit' thread.

Cheers
Jiel
 
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wertmewert

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Was thinking about this but wasn't quite sure about making it yet but full credit for doing it. 2012 Sunshine Series, lets make it a good one.

No of races: 8
Locations: Beerburrum, Illinbah, Toowoomba, Kenilworth, Kandanga, Upper Brookfeild (old school one), Kenilworth... I know there is one more
Cost per Race: As is.
Time: Late Juce, 2 week gaps, 3 or 4 week gap in the middle incase postponed race. The less weather effected races at begning / end.
Comment: So much to comment on! another night....
 

friz

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There is alot more to it than just what you have listed. ANY series must fit in around the National Series, and the National Series is the proving grounds for World Cup selections. So the National rounds must end well before the World Cup season starts.

Fraser,
Goldcoast MTB Club President.
 
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sherman

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There is alot more to it than just what you have listed. ANY series must fit in around the National Series, and the National Series is the proving grounds for World Cup selections. So the National rounds must end well before the World Cup season starts.

Fraser,
Goldcoast MTB Club President.
Having been involved with organising the last two sunshine series, I know that there is a lot more to it then what I have listed but just as a starting block it would be good to just getting knowledge of what everybody wants.

I want to see not only dh but mountain biking in general progress within southeast Queensland so if we can find what people want, we can try and cater for their needs, within reason such as what you said about the national series.

Cheers
Jiel
 

dirt lover

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Well looking at the national series from this year the races were planned to start end of october-early november right? (Can't remember exactly when Illinbah was scheduled). So how about a series starting from late june (last or second last weekend) that goes until early October (first/second weekend). That way it shouldn't impeed on the National series too much.

As for the time between races I think a two week break between races is a good option so it goes in three week cycles. Firstly this is enough time for any damages to be completely fixed from a previous round, allows 5-6 rounds to be held in this time which is a possible number of races to have (if you include state champs in there its definately possible). If the gap between rounds were any bigger than this then there would be too few races in most peoples eyes and if it was any less then people would have to spend too much in a short period of time/take too much time off work.

As for tracks I honestly don't mind a huge deal as long as race get to happen. With that said though I feel it would be a real shame to hold say 3 rounds at one place and 2 at another so variety would be good. So if it was a 5 race series I would pick Illinbah, Kenilworth, Beerburrum, Toowoomba, Mt Joyce (assuming there arent any future problems there). If it was a 6 round series I'd probably double up on those tracks unless places like Ceder Creek or Brookfield are available. For state champs just use one of those tracks (prefereabley not Beerburrum because while I don't have anything against the track and have yet to see the changes they're doing on it now it's not really up there in standard compared to the others).

I think over the summer months or start of the year it would be great to have some club races that are more social orientated such as what they have in NSW with that track that starts with O, (Orimbuh or something, name eludes me at the moment :eek:). Even if they were push runs at Castle Hill or own shuttles at Beerburrum but with a timing system set up so that you had a target. If there's a problem with liabilities regarding the own shuttles isn't it possible to have everybody entering sign a waiver saying they won't sue the club? Or even run all of the open days during this time, have a break over winter when its wet then start the racing season from end June till early October.

That's all I can think of at the moment, just want to add though my thanks to the Gravity club for finding a replacement to Kenilworth so quickly due to the weather. Obviously its not an ideal situation but one thats out of anybody's control, thanks for still finding a way to let us race.

*EDIT* Oh and for the cost I think it should and probably will stay the same. The host club needs to make some money out of it so even if it might be a bit over priced so that the club gets a bit more profit that money will come directly back to us in the form of more races and better venues.
 
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Registered Nutcase

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No. of Races: 5-6 + champs
Locations: Within 200km of Brisbane
Time of Year: March-Sept
Gap between races: 3weeks-5weeks
Cost per Race: 70 for race day assuming shuttles are provided, same for a practice day assuming shuttles are provided
Comments: I think that the season needs to have a better website that is crystal clear about everything and updated more frequently. I think to a large extent the venue is irelivant becuase people just want to race.

If possible even if it has rained heavly that we should be able to race. I would rather race and then help rebuild a track than constantly miss out on races.

We need to bring back day liceneces, its more work for the people but how the hell do you get new people into the sport?
 

drivebytrucker

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just a thought but how about a 2 series in one type set up?
The 4 big tracks being tbar, k'wrth, mount joice, and illinbah 4 weeks apart making up the sunshine series, with a race inbetween each one at one of the smaller tracks, kind of like in the uk with the mini dh series.

two separate series, two separate points systems running as one. i'm not sure where the other short tracks are other than beery and castle, but i,m sure they are there somewhere and this way it will still trickle feed the clubs with a bit of cash as the mini series should be able to be run at a lower cost, but it makes the bigger comp seem a bit more prestigeous, and everyone keeps getting a race in, cos it seems that if the weather goes tits up its allways the smaller venues that cope better.

mtc
 

sherman

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No. of Races: 5-6 + champs
Locations: Within 200km of Brisbane
Time of Year: March-Sept
Gap between races: 3weeks-5weeks
Cost per Race: 70 for race day assuming shuttles are provided, same for a practice day assuming shuttles are provided
Comments: I think that the season needs to have a better website that is crystal clear about everything and updated more frequently. I think to a large extent the venue is irelivant becuase people just want to race.

If possible even if it has rained heavly that we should be able to race. I would rather race and then help rebuild a track than constantly miss out on races.

We need to bring back day liceneces, its more work for the people but how the hell do you get new people into the sport?
Day licences were gotten rid of this year as they only provide third party insurance and this leaves the the rider that has an accident at the race with no benefits.
When nsw went to this system, numbers actually went up so hopefully this will this will happen in Queensland.
So I think this system will be in place for years to come.
 

Registered Nutcase

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Day licences were gotten rid of this year as they only provide third party insurance and this leaves the rider that has an accident at the race with no benefits.
When nsw went to this system, numbers actually went up so hopefully this will this will happen in Queensland.
So I think this system will be in place for years to come.



NSW downhill has a lot more going for it that QLD. I'm saying this from experience as used to live in Sydney as well as racing both PRE the requirement for full membership and POST full membership.

  1. They have far more people than up here.
  2. They have club races, Ourimbah, Lithgow, Hunter
  3. The clubs have lots of races making it Viable to go to the full membership
  4. The clubs bring in new members who race a few founds on day licences(how I started racing)
  5. They have a state series that hasn’t had lots of rounds changed or canned.(not trying to start and e-fight, just the facts)
  6. Qld doesn’t seem to have many clubs that race DH.
That’s why it was a smart choice for NSW to go to full memberships.

From experience when the rule came out in NSW, I was planning on racing 3 rounds of the state and the rest were local rounds mostly Ourimbah. Without the club races I would of stoped racing because I felt that I was being shafted as did a lot of riders.

By getting rid of the day licences you cut of all the people who want to ride 1 race and given the way this series is looking there might only be one race. With DH in qld have next to no races. If it is the "way forward" I fear this will strangle the sunshine series to the point where it is not viable.

How can the organisers justify cutting this portion of people out?

Please don’t blow smoke up my ass about the fact that you looking after riders by forcing them to get membership for the insurance at best that’s a by product of doing this. I think most people who race are aware that they can get injured and they should be looking after those themselves.

 

sherman

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NSW downhill has a lot more going for it that QLD. I'm saying this from experience as used to live in Sydney as well as racing both PRE the requirement for full membership and POST full membership.

  1. They have far more people than up here.
  2. They have club races, Ourimbah, Lithgow, Hunter
  3. The clubs have lots of races making it Viable to go to the full membership
  4. The clubs bring in new members who race a few founds on day licences(how I started racing)
  5. They have a state series that hasn’t had lots of rounds changed or canned.(not trying to start and e-fight, just the facts)
  6. Qld doesn’t seem to have many clubs that race DH.
That’s why it was a smart choice for NSW to go to full memberships.

From experience when the rule came out in NSW, I was planning on racing 3 rounds of the state and the rest were local rounds mostly Ourimbah. Without the club races I would of stoped racing because I felt that I was being shafted as did a lot of riders.

By getting rid of the day licences you cut of all the people who want to ride 1 race and given the way this series is looking there might only be one race. With DH in qld have next to no races. If it is the "way forward" I fear this will strangle the sunshine series to the point where it is not viable.

How can the organisers justify cutting this portion of people out?

Please don’t blow smoke up my ass about the fact that you looking after riders by forcing them to get membership for the insurance at best that’s a by product of doing this. I think most people who race are aware that they can get injured and they should be looking after those themselves.

This is why I wanted to start this thread with plenty of time for people to express their thoughts about next years series as organising the 2011 series was done late 2010/early2011 and I belief that the riders could have have greater input into the season.

The full membership has some people for it and many against it, but like you said RN, Queensland does need more races to make it viable. Hopefully if we start organising the 2012 sunshine series at an earlier date than we have in previous years we will have more time to make it much better series than it has in the previous years.

But like I said, it would be good to get a lot of rider input, so the organisers know what the people want out of the series.

Also we could fill this thread up with arguments for and against day licences. We know its an issue that needs to be addressed but if we could just go back to people posting up what they want out of the series that would be good. (It's not that I want to palm it off, I just dont want this thread to turn into an argument)

Cheers
Jiel
 

needaride

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NSW downhill has a lot more going for it that QLD. I'm saying this from experience as used to live in Sydney as well as racing both PRE the requirement for full membership and POST full membership.

  1. They have far more people than up here.
  2. They have club races, Ourimbah, Lithgow, Hunter
  3. The clubs have lots of races making it Viable to go to the full membership
  4. The clubs bring in new members who race a few founds on day licences(how I started racing)
  5. They have a state series that hasn’t had lots of rounds changed or canned.(not trying to start and e-fight, just the facts)
  6. Qld doesn’t seem to have many clubs that race DH.
That’s why it was a smart choice for NSW to go to full memberships.

From experience when the rule came out in NSW, I was planning on racing 3 rounds of the state and the rest were local rounds mostly Ourimbah. Without the club races I would of stoped racing because I felt that I was being shafted as did a lot of riders.

By getting rid of the day licences you cut of all the people who want to ride 1 race and given the way this series is looking there might only be one race. With DH in qld have next to no races. If it is the "way forward" I fear this will strangle the sunshine series to the point where it is not viable.

How can the organisers justify cutting this portion of people out?

Please don’t blow smoke up my ass about the fact that you looking after riders by forcing them to get membership for the insurance at best that’s a by product of doing this. I think most people who race are aware that they can get injured and they should be looking after those themselves.


Mate you are 100% right I've just moved up from Newcastle and have suggested on here (in another QLD DH related thread) that there needs to be a regular, non state series, club level race up here on a monthly basis. This would provide..

1. Incentive for more people to get full membership
2. A consistent event for DH riders in SEQLD
3. An entry point for newbies who just want to try it out
4. A great practice ground for young riders
5. A regular "trial and error" event to work towards better events
6. If run well - a positive example to give councils/state forests, of how the DH community can operate.
7. A great event for the mountain bike community to continue to grow and expand.. more riders meeting more riders = more riding.

I know many will cringe at this point but I'll say it - a track like Beerburrum would work for this. Got a great shuttle road, not on private property and it can handle a bit of rain fairly well.

I know a few on here have said the answer is more State Series races next year, but I really dont think thats the way to go.. NSW runs successfully as has been mentioned, the state series down there is only 5 races (thredbo, awaba, ourimbah, canberra, coffs) which is the same number of races that were originally planned for the series up here. So based on that comparison I see QLD's key issues being:

1. Extreme misfortune with weather
2. A lack of regular grass roots club races

If people are working hard towards any of the things ive mentioned, this isnt a rant and I appreciate your work - let me know what is happening as I am really keen to help.

that might be a little more than 2c worth...
 

Dirt king

Likes Bikes and Dirt



NSW downhill has a lot more going for it that QLD. I'm saying this from experience as used to live in Sydney as well as racing both PRE the requirement for full membership and POST full membership.

  1. They have far more people than up here.
  2. They have club races, Ourimbah, Lithgow, Hunter
  3. The clubs have lots of races making it Viable to go to the full membership
  4. The clubs bring in new members who race a few founds on day licences(how I started racing)
  5. They have a state series that hasn’t had lots of rounds changed or canned.(not trying to start and e-fight, just the facts)
  6. Qld doesn’t seem to have many clubs that race DH.
That’s why it was a smart choice for NSW to go to full memberships.

From experience when the rule came out in NSW, I was planning on racing 3 rounds of the state and the rest were local rounds mostly Ourimbah. Without the club races I would of stoped racing because I felt that I was being shafted as did a lot of riders.

By getting rid of the day licences you cut of all the people who want to ride 1 race and given the way this series is looking there might only be one race. With DH in qld have next to no races. If it is the "way forward" I fear this will strangle the sunshine series to the point where it is not viable.

How can the organisers justify cutting this portion of people out?

Please don’t blow smoke up my ass about the fact that you looking after riders by forcing them to get membership for the insurance at best that’s a by product of doing this. I think most people who race are aware that they can get injured and they should be looking after those themselves.

I agree with this completely.

I understand the push for the full membership and in my eyes it is a great idea. Clubs benefit, and MTBA also benefit, allowing these organisations to provide even better events for more people to enjoy. With that said, and as mentioned, in comparison to NSW, from my own perspective, there is a greater following and larger involvement in the sport in NSW in comparison to QLD.

Myself being a University Student, as luck would have it, many races last year, and this year fall around test time, and I can only attend 2-3 max of the series if weather permits etc etc. Therefore the Day License was great for that. Where as now having to make a yearly commitment seems a lot for just 2-3 races.

Again I understand the implications of a Day License only being a 3rd Party Insurance, but surely if this is clearly stated to competitors and they are given the choice of either being fully covered by insurance, or only 3rd party wouldn't the Day License be a viable option again? Prior to the rules on licensing changing for this year, I will admit I was not aware that a Day License was only a 3rd Party Insurance.... in fact I never gave the notion of the 'License' and thought prior to now. But with the recent events, and the changing of race format regarding licensing and club membership it certainly has been brought to my attention and I am fine with it only being the equivalent of 3rd Party Insurance.

Also, as others have said, if there were to be club races throughout the year at club run venues i.e. Illanbah (I know it is having problems at the moment), Kenilworth, Beerburrum and the likes, I would be able to justify a full year agreement to club membership and a MTBA license, but with for myself only being able to attend 2-3 races if I am lucky it does make it difficult. I know that this is situational and well predominately I am using myself as an example, but I would be surprised if there weren't a few members of this forum, or if no in the QLD DH scene who are not in the same boat as I am.

All that said, in the few races I have attended, they have been awesome events, heaps of fun and racing your mates never gets old. Certainly there have been there ups and downs in the last 6-12 months regarding the Sunshine Series in general, but I think everyone who is helping out in running it are doing a great job.

This is my 2 cents on the DH scene in Brisbane, and QLD as a whole. Downhill is a great sport and is obviously enjoyed by many many people in Brisbane and Queensland for that matter. I think this thread may be of a lot of use for the Sunshine series organisers and Brisbane/QLD Clubs and was a great idea.

Fingers crossed this rain holds off for the race tomorrow!
 

Steve-0

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Twp.........
Ahh the good ol' days of bill and libby. They weren't bad but do you remember how many times they screwed up my podium result? atleast once a year. For the money we paid I don't think there a viable option anymore, Especially with the new ways to time races. These days the times are done easily and results posted next day, not next week.

Fingers crossed this rain holds off for the race tomorrow!
It rained ALL night and it still is raining. Race could still go ahead for sure but one or two gaps may be taken out maybe. I'll be Spectating!

Few things I want to see next year:
  • Series pushed back until June.
  • More club races and fun days separate from the series.
  • Full MTBA Membership required.
  • Less bitching and Automatically falling back on "QLD DH is Dead" Bullshit

With the series pushed back there maybe less disruption due to weather. Ride days that cost like $20 + License would be sweet, twice a month from like March to June would be awesome. Any track can be used, Beerburrum/Ipswich Even if we just used those tracks I'd still be keen.

Full MTBA Membership helps out everyone and it's a great way to grow the sport. It's also a neccesity if your racing IMO. I hurt myself pretty bad last year and That's when I found out about what the day license covers. Nothing. (Maybe the reason they ditched it this year) But seriously kids. Buy a full membership.

Also, More respect and appreciation needs to be given to organisors. There doing everything they can to create the best event possible for you to ride. Yet you blame them for killing DH? Are you a fucking idiot? Support the guys above and they will put more effort in and with your help they can achieve more, More locations, more rounds, cheaper prices....

My 2c. The XC world is so easy, DH can be too with the right support.
 

haydo

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Ask HAYDEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ask TWP. I did and they didn't want to time the series as they have been building the trails at Mt Joyce. What this has done is allowed a club to purchase the equipment and run timing for the races. This will hopefully allow more low key racing to be held at an economical price.

What is key is that the sunshine Series is supported by a network of other club races. Many of the club representatives I spoke to yesterday are excited about this prospect. So, I suggest members attend their next club meeting and discuss ideas with their committees on how running an event may be possible.
 

flamshmizer

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2012 needs 1 major, frequently updated news source. It sucks having to look at the facebook page, on here, on the MTBA website etc. just to find out whats going on. 1 source that has all the latest official information, straight from the horses mouth, any questions and you get sent there.

A more official feel will add to the authority of the event organisers. If you have your own news outlet it won't be just another guy posting stuff on Rotorburn.
 

needaride

Likes Dirt
2012 needs 1 major, frequently updated news source. It sucks having to look at the facebook page, on here, on the MTBA website etc. just to find out whats going on. 1 source that has all the latest official information, straight from the horses mouth, any questions and you get sent there.

A more official feel will add to the authority of the event organisers. If you have your own news outlet it won't be just another guy posting stuff on Rotorburn.
Good point, and I think this could still be done through Rotorburn in the "Clubs" section of the forum, when I first moved up here I looked there for info but there seems to be an absence of QLD clubs represented there? Could be the easiest option...
 

needaride

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Ask TWP. I did and they didn't want to time the series as they have been building the trails at Mt Joyce. What this has done is allowed a club to purchase the equipment and run timing for the races. This will hopefully allow more low key racing to be held at an economical price.

What is key is that the sunshine Series is supported by a network of other club races. Many of the club representatives I spoke to yesterday are excited about this prospect. So, I suggest members attend their next club meeting and discuss ideas with their committees on how running an event may be possible.
Awesome! Glad to hear there is momentum behind the Club based racing concept, this is the starting point for more consistent and successful racing..
 
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