Turner DW Link

[No Skid Marks]

why don't you? To lazy,and I have a Mac,can't get linkage. I mapped it with paper quickly, but very inacurate(I don't have a printer,I had to trace off screen), I found it to have a vertical to possibly slightly rearward axle path. But I also wanted to know about the shock ramping up, looks fierce. I guess it's why they're running very light damping.

and how the hell are we suppose to do that anyway?Linkage?

Maybe you should read this interview - http://www.competitivecyclist.com/z...AM+Carbon+Powermeter+Sale&utm_term=QA+with+DT

Dave Turner is possibly the one person in the bike industry who is actually willing to admit when a marketed feature isn't the best option any more, and change to something more functional. He ditched FSR/ICT for that very reason, rather than continuing to push forwards with the marketing BS that 90% of the riding population believe. I haven't always been a fan of his bikes but it's hard to argue with Turner's design ethos.

Hmmm, I'll have to read it again, I thought he was very indirrect and leaving a lot of the facts up to the readers discretion, with implying statements. Talking a lot but saying nothing, and defending his old marketing. From Horst link and it's benefits over low pivot with marketing to support it, then jumping beyond Horst link, with a more vertical axle path and probably less brake affect than the Horst bikes, and less pedal kickback/lockout.. Please set me straight S, I'm to tired to think.

 

[dhd]

New frames look awesome. No wonder Bill was riding a Specialized around Majura the other day while waiting for the 09 models to arrive

Specialized? What Specialized?????
I'm so excited I'm gunna burst into flames waiting!

 

[dhd]

NSM. Somehow you always seem to jump on the negative side of anything that isn't one of the brands you carry.
I can tell you Dave Turner is very much a straight shooter and to be honest if you have any massive doubts to his motives or abilities, you can ring Turner in a few weeks when the smoke clears and chances are he'll actually answer the phone. I'm pretty sure he'd be more than happy to tell you personally how and why he has done the things he has. Sorry to deflate your balloon but there is no smoke and mirrors here trying to fool anyone mate. Dave stands behind his products and takes any problems (if any) with the frames he sells very personally and does whatever it takes to set it right. I have no doubt that will be the case with the new '09 frames as it has been in the past. The bikes and all details are slated for launch at Interbike in a few weeks. Let's wait and see what info is available then eh? He's not a fool and would not change the frame design if it was a backwards step. The '08 frames are awesome and I can only assume the new designs will be better.....and that's gotta be a good thing!

 

[S.]

Hmmm, I'll have to read it again, I thought he was very indirrect and leaving a lot of the facts up to the readers discretion, with implying statements. Talking a lot but saying nothing, and defending his old marketing. From Horst link and it's benefits over low pivot with marketing to support it, then jumping beyond Horst link, with a more vertical axle path and probably less brake affect than the Horst bikes, and less pedal kickback/lockout.. Please set me straight S, I'm to tired to think.

I think what he said was actually 100% accurate. I haven't mapped anything but a bag of bolts in your chosen size and length says the shock rate is similar to the Sunday, ie fairly linear.


Personally I'm freakin stoked, the DHR now truly is a bike that ticks pretty well all the boxes:
- Good geometry
- Good build quality (if it's up to Turner's usual standard)
- Probably reasonable weight, knowing Turner
- Good suspension
- Extremely reputable customer service backup
- Reliable, helpful, non-ripoff distributor (this was the one thing that really sank the boot into the Sundays I reckon)
- If it's the same price as the old DHRs, cheaper than other US and Euro-made frames.

It may well have first year bugs but I'll be damned if this isn't the most promising move in frame manufacture that I've seen thus far.

 

[No Skid Marks]

NSM. Somehow you always seem to jump on the negative side of anything that isn't one of the brands you carry.I just hate lies and people to busy with other things believing them. I'm sure you'd agree, most of the hype around most of the designs is fiction, weather it's believed by those saying it or if it's just to sell their wares.
I can tell you Dave Turner is very much a straight shooter and to be honest if you have any massive doubts to his motives or abilities, you can ring Turner in a few weeks when the smoke clears and chances are he'll actually answer the phone.I totally beilieve you, and I questioned my own opinion on that article, it just seemed he was voiding making clean cut statements based on facts I'm pretty sure he'd be more than happy to tell you personally how and why he has done the things he has. Sorry to deflate your balloon but there is no smoke and mirrors here trying to fool anyone mate.I believe that. Dave stands behind his productsand previous beliefs? and takes any problems with the frames he sells very personally and does whatever it takes to set it right. I have no doubt that will be the case with the new '09 frames as it has been in the past.

Sorry to appear negative. Good points had been covered though,and I got pretty sick pretty quick about people raving about how it looks. It looks hot,done. Turner have always had their finger close to the pulse and have repeatedly bought out some of the best feeling bikes available. Their quality is good and reputation deserved.
I prefer the new suspension design to the old. However I'm not sure die hard DHR fans will prefer the feel, pity for them,but who cares if they're happy.

 

[Cave Dweller]

As for the bad rep he has picked up, a multiple world cup series and world championship winning suspension design is definitely something I'd hate to have hanging over my head too.

Ha!.... your right, its all about the bike and not about the rider, by your yard stick the kona is a world championship winning design as well, good one I guess if Sam wins no races next year then you can come back and say "nananana i was right, it was all about the dw link" but you know thats not going to happen so calm down little man.

There is a whole sticky thread on RM as a testament to the woeful build quality and poor shock performance of the iron horse DW link. Im glad he found a company that can produce a good quality DH bike for him. I personally don't like the way the DW link is hyped by everyone but i will continue to ride turners because i like the geometry, warranty and build quality of their bikes, not what kind of suspension system they use.

 

[dhd]

Sorry to appear negative. Good points had been covered though,and I got pretty sick pretty quick about people raving about how it looks. It looks hot,done. Turner have always had their finger close to the pulse and have repeatedly bought out some of the best feeling bikes available. Their quality is good and reputation deserved.
I prefer the new suspension design to the old. However I'm not sure die hard DHR fans will prefer the feel, pity for them,but who cares if they're happy.

Sorry.....I mighta jumped a bit early.....My brain is going into overload today!!! Sooo many questions and so much to take in.
I too will be very interested in seeing how the new DHR rides as I have been a huge fan of the supple feeling rear end of the last 5 or so years.
I've also liked the way Sundays ride as well so I can only assume at this stage it will ride like a "Turnerfied" Sunday which in my eyes will be pretty special!

 

[S.]

Ha!.... your right, its all about the bike and not about the rider, by your yard stick the kona is a world championship winning design as well, good one I guess if Sam wins no races next year then you can come back and say "nananana i was right, it was all about the dw link" but you know thats not going to happen so calm down little man.

There is a whole sticky thread on RM as a testament to the woeful build quality and poor shock performance of the iron horse DW link. Im glad he found a company that can produce a good quality DH bike for him. I personally don't like the way the DW link is hyped by everyone but i will continue to ride turners because i like the geometry, warranty and build quality of their bikes, not what kind of suspension system they use.

Oh give it a rest man, you're as much of a turner fanboy as anyone else is a DW-link fanboy, and you're clearly anti-DW. Just leave it alone.

 

[udi]

but i will continue to ride

You don't even do that anymore, what are you talking about!
But I have to hand you the little man comment, you're like a foot taller than me right?

 

[No Skid Marks]

Sorry.....I mighta jumped a bit early.....My brain is going into overload today!!! Sooo many questions and so much to take in.
I too will be very interested in seeing how the new DHR rides as I have been a huge fan of the supple feeling rear end of the last 5 or so years.
I've also liked the way Sundays ride as well so I can only assume at this stage it will ride like a "Turnerfied" Sunday which in my eyes will be pretty special!

All good, I could have put more effort into thinking and what I said

 

[Cave Dweller]

Oh give it a rest man, you're as much of a turner fanboy as anyone else is a DW-link fanboy, and you're clearly anti-DW. Just leave it alone.

Or what? I was reply to udi trying to rev me up, why are you getting involved again?

I have said this before, im not anti DW link, im anti hype and anti the fanboy who regurgitates "DW link is great" but could not explain to you WHY its so good (not taking a swipe at anyone here, just in general...).

I like turner because they are not full of bullshit and the bikes are beautifully made, have good CS and a good warranty. If that makes me a fan boy then so be it, im a sucker for well engineered products that work.

The DW link is a good design, but its not an optimal design. No such thing exist's due to the moving rider mass, changing centre of gravity, changing mass moments of inertia and changing gear ratios. IMO tire pressure, tyre choice, geometry (chain stay, head angle, bb height), suspension setup, weight of the bike, weight and inertia of the wheels, rider ability and rider fitness all make a bigger combined difference then suspension design of top level DH bikes (which are mostly good these days). Vpp's win races, commencals win races, honda won races, FSR won races. Rider + setup + geomerty > suspension design.

You don't even do that anymore, what are you talking about!
But I have to hand you the little man comment, you're like a foot taller than me right?

Thats right pip squeak! For some reason i always think of you as 4 foot tall. Probably won't be doing much riding in the next 6 months either, heading straight into a european winter. Lots of snow boarding though. Thats alright, the new DHR will be coming out for the northern summer just in time to thrash it in the alps, come over if you want to do some real riding. I will be on board the dw link turner, and as a consequence will be as fast as sam hill

 

[Tazed]

How about we all reserve judgement until someone actually gets to ride them?
I'm no fan of single pivot bikes but Turner seems to have got those to a legendary level of performance (amongst others).
His 4-bar designs are/were equally well received.
I can't see his application of the DW-Link design being anything else than his usual build quality with his usual exemplary customer support.
So why not cut the resistance to the change and see what he does with it?
When Intense and Santa Cruz went to VPP from 4-bar/FSR and single pivot respectively, there was also much skepticism. There's obviously still some dissatisfaction, but on the whole it's been a positive and progressive move.
I bet Turner's decision proves the same.

 

[floody]

Personally I'm freakin stoked, the DHR now truly is a bike that potentially ticks pretty well all the boxes:
- Possibly Good geometry
- Possibly Good build quality (if it's up to Turner's usual standard)
- Probably reasonable weight, knowing Turner
- Maybe Good suspension
- Extremely reputable customer service backup
- Reliable, helpful, non-ripoff distributor (this was the one thing that really sank the boot into the Sundays I reckon)
- If it's the same price as the old DHRs, cheaper than other US and Euro-made frames.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves when the thing's not even going to lob until March.

 

[Cave Dweller]

How about we all reserve judgement until someone actually gets to ride them?

So why not cut the resistance to the change and see what he does with it?

Im not really "resisting" change. My point is (and i think its completely valid and true) that turners generally always ride awesome (as DW points out, when he designed the sunday the DHR was his benchmark) and they are engineered really well. The DW link camp is going to benefit massively out of this alliance, more then turner will IMO. Muppets will ride a turner dw link for the first time and will truely beleive the riding experience is all because of the dw link because "the dw link is the best suspension design in the universe, i read it on ridemonkey and mtbr" and forget that geometry and build quality are (more IMO) important.

Sure, turner will sell more bikes and for the time being the bikes they sell will be the most sought after, but what happens when turner stop using the DW link? Nothing last's forever, look what is about to happen to iron horse. Helped build up the DW link brand (if you can say that....) then cast aside. Hope turner doesn't go the same way, time will tell, enjoy it while it last's i guess.

 

[Turner_rider]

First thing I thought - great styling, keeps with the Turner look

Actually I think they have lost the Turner look in some respects, paticularly because the one piece CNCd bottom bracket/suspension/shock mount used from 1996 to date on all but the lightweight frames is now completely different due to the new rear end.

 

[benwilson1]

So does this mean sundays will lose their resale value because another company now has the license, and they will be seen as the lower class DW bike, or do u think they will keep their resale value because, after all, they still use the DW linkage....

 

[rc30]

commencal

yeah im looking at buying the budget specced commencal is it same frame as the superteam and how does the package worki wantg too see how fast i can ride downhill.

 

[PSYCHO-T]

So, Correct me if i'm wrong that's Ibis and Turner on DW-Link bikes...Anyone Else???? Maybe Sam could end up on a Turner.

Why does everybody assume that Sam will go where DW link bikes are?

they look sick still

 

[toodles]

Having owned multiple DHRs and Sundays, it's safe to say they're both contenders for my favourite bike. I'm very keen to see the new offerings (altho I'm afraid for the value of my recently aquired 08 DHR), as I think DT will bring a level of manufacturing excellence to compliment the awesome DW design. The geo chart looks very promising (altho Turner's geo charts aren't their high point by far).

Nevertheless... it will be a very sweet 2009 model year. Can't wait to see them in the flesh.

 

[S.]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves when the thing's not even going to lob until March.

You're right, why even bother discussing it at all?

Geometry - will be good unless they fuck it up severely from the published measurements, because they're exactly the same as this year's model, which I happen to have ridden and will vouch for.

Turner build quality - well they haven't released any new bikes that I can think of that have sucked quality wise. Yes it's an assumption, but it's based on a trend, and honestly nobody would expect less from Turner.

Weight yeah could go either way, but again Turner are well known for the depth of FEA they do, and I'd be surprised if that frame was particularly heavy. Speculation yes, but again based on a trend, not just absolutely nothing.

Good suspension - the pedalling characteristics and axle path will be very close to the same as the Sunday, and provided they don't do anything wack to the shock rate (which given that Weagle designed the shock rate, I very much doubt they did, in fact Weagle has stated it'll be similar to a Sunday in the early stroke but with more ramp up at the end of the travel) it'll be good. This is based on things Weagle himself has said.

Getting ahead of myself - perhaps but I think my predictions will be proven correct. This should be a friggin awesome bike, and I'm glad they have a good distributor behind them.