To build or not to build? A Mosque at Ground Zero, that is...

[my_bike]

Now why should we (we as in Westerners in general) allow to be run over by a minority (sadly increasigly becoming a majority) who don't exercise the same acceptance or tolerance that we give to others. (i.e. you go to the middle east and you MUST cover up women etc, and when they come here they are allowed to just do as they please).

Are you Retarded?
How are Muslims a minority if there are more of them than the whole population of USA?

 

[Rider_of_Fast]

Are you Retarded?
How are Muslims a minority if there are more of them than the whole population of USA?

Fuck off ya jerk... Muslims are currently a minority in Australia last time I checked -by the way your response doesn't make sense - you should trying putting it into context. Its obvious that the entire world Muslim population exceeds that of the population of the US.

Maybe take a lesson in grade 2 reading and comprehension while your at it.

On the subject of retardation, I'll tell you whats retarded: Australia, if there isn't a major swing away from ALP in NSW & QLD. Thats retarded.

And no I'm not retarded. Just a straight talker who isn't scared of shooting the truth from the mouth.

Ps. You should try it FUCK FACE

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

And no I'm not retarded. Just a straight talker who isn't scared of spouting xenophobia, homophobia and general redneck bullshit from his mouth

Ps. You should try it FUCK FACE

Fixed it for ya.

Oh and any more direct abuse towards other members and you're taking a holiday from the site!

 

[jjperko]

I'm not going to get involved with this debate. But an interesting American opinion that's is close to mine here. -

http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense

 

[Dante666]

I'm not going to get involved with this debate. But an interesting American opinion that's is close to mine here. -

http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense

Ah damn, beaten to it...

 

[jbro24]

Look at Hiroshima, America fucking flattened the whole city and killed pretty much everyone there and there are christian churchs right in the centre!.

America and Japan where openly at war with each other, and there is no comparison here!!

Let them build the mosque. In my own opinion anyone who opposes it are just racist fucks.

2,957 people died during 9/11 (excluding hijackers) and over 6,000 people were injured! Given the 10s of 1000s of people still morning over the loss of loved ones, I dont see it as being racist', I see it as showing respect to the people who gave their lives as a result of this unprovoked attack.

 

[scuba05]

2,957 people died during 9/11 (excluding hijackers) and over 6,000 people were injured! Given the 10s of 1000s of people still morning over the loss of loved ones, I dont see it as being racist', I see it as showing respect to the people who gave their lives as a result of this unprovoked attack.

You seem to forget the community centre isn't being built on ground zero, so bares no significance to those who are mourning(It was 9 years ago anyway). The rest of the islam population should be able to practice their religion in their own right, as long as it is done in private and isnt pushed onto the rest of the popn in my opinion(as their bill of rights states i believe?)

After reading some more on the topic, i have gone from being a "They probably shouldn't build it there", to a "let them build it as long as it isn't hideously overpowering". That article posted previously was one of the major movers for me.

 

[floody]

America and Japan where openly at war with each other, and there is no comparison here!!



2,957 people died during 9/11 (excluding hijackers) and over 6,000 people were injured! Given the 10s of 1000s of people still morning over the loss of loved ones, I dont see it as being racist', I see it as showing respect to the people who gave their lives as a result of this unprovoked attack.

The problem is, you seem to be unable to separate islam, and al qaeda. When in reality one is a religion that preaches peace for the most part, and one is a terrorist group openly baiting the west.

Building an islamic community centre has nothing to do with respect or lack thereof.

 

[Purt]

Bahahahahahahahaha.

You are actually serious in those thoughts.

Bahahahahahahahaha.

It's sad to see some people are proud that they have their head firmly shoved up their arse, ignoring what EVERYONE else knows as fact.

"As official videographer for the U.S. government, Kurt Sonnenfeld was detailed to Ground Zero on September 11, 2001, where he spent an entire month filming: "What I saw at certain moments and in certain places ... is very disturbing!" He never handed his 29 tapes over to the authorities and has been persecuted ever since. Kurt Sonnenfeld lives in exile in Argentina, where he wrote "El Perseguido" (the persecuted). His recently-published book tells the story of his unending nightmare and drives another nail into the coffin of the government’s account of the 9/11 events.

There were many things, in hindsight, that were disturbing at Ground Zero. It was odd to me that I was dispatched to go to New York even before the second plane hit the South Tower, while the media was still reporting only that a “small plane” had collided with the North Tower — far too small of a catastrophe at that point to involve FEMA. The Agency was mobilized within minutes, whereas it took ten days for it to deploy to New Orleans to respond to Hurricane Katrina, even with abundant advance warning! It was odd to me that all cameras were so fiercely prohibited within the secured perimeter of Ground Zero, that the entire area was declared a crime scene and yet the “evidence” within that crime scene was so rapidly removed and destroyed. And then it was very odd to me when I learned that FEMA and several other federal agencies had already moved into position at their command center at Pier 92 on September 10th, one day before the attacks!

We are asked to believe that all four of the “indestructible” black boxes of the two jets that struck the twin towers were never found because they were completely vaporized, yet I have footage of the rubber wheels of the landing gear nearly undamaged, as well as the seats, parts of the fuselage and a jet turbine that were absolutely not vaporized. This being said, I do find it rather odd that such objects could have survived fairly intact the type of destruction that turned most of the Twin Towers into thin dust. And I definitely harbor some doubts about the authenticity of the “jet” turbine, far too small to have come from one of the Boeings!

What happened with Building 7 is incredibly suspicious. I have video that shows how curiously small the rubble pile was, and how the buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed. It had not been hit by an airplane; it had suffered only minor injuries when the Twin Towers collapsed, and there were only small fires on a couple of floors. There’s no way that building could have imploded the way it did without controlled demolition. Yet the collapse of Building 7 was hardly mentioned by the mainstream media and suspiciously ignored by the 911 Commission.

The Secret Service, the Department of Defense, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Internal Revenue Service, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Office of Emergency Management’s “Crisis Center” occupied huge amounts of space there, spanning several floors of the building. Other federal agencies had offices there as well. After September 11, it was discovered that concealed within Building Seven was the largest clandestine domestic station of the Central Intelligence Agency outside of Washington DC, a base of operations from which to spy on diplomats of the United Nations and to conduct counterterrorism and counterintelligence missions.

There was no underground parking level at Seven World Trade Center. And there was no underground vault. Instead, the federal agencies at Building Seven stored their vehicles, documents and evidence in the building of their associates across the street. Beneath the plaza level of US Customs House (Building 6) was a large underground garage, separated off from the rest of the complex’s underground area and guarded under tight security. This was where the various government services parked their bomb-proofed cars and armored limousines, counterfeit taxi cabs and telephone company trucks used for undercover surveillance and covert operations, specialized vans and other vehicles. Also within that secured parking area was access to the sub-level vault of Building 6.

When the North Tower fell, the US Customs House (Building 6) was crushed and totally incinerated. Much of the underground levels beneath it were also destroyed. But there were voids. And it was into one of those voids, recently uncovered, that I descended with a special Task Force to investigate. It was there we found the security antechamber to the vault, badly damaged. At the far end of the security office was the wide steel door to the vault, a combination code keypad in the cinderblock wall beside it. But the wall was cracked and partially crumbled, and the door was sprung partially open. So we checked inside with our flashlights. Except for several rows of empty shelves, there was nothing in the vault but dust and debris. It had been emptied. Why was it empty? And when could it have been emptied?

With so much chaos, it was difficult to think. It was only after digesting everything that the “alarm bells” went off.

Building Six was evacuated within twelve minutes after the first airplane struck the North Tower. The streets were immediately clogged with fire trucks, police cars and blocked traffic, and the vault was large enough, 15 meters by 15 meters by my estimate, to necessitate at least a big truck to carry out its contents. And after the towers fell and destroyed most of the parking level, a mission to recover the contents of the vault would have been impossible. The vault had to have been emptied before the attack.

I’ve described all of this extensively in my book, and it’s apparent that things of importance were taken out of harm’s way before the attacks. For example, the CIA didn’t seem too concerned about their losses. After the existence of their clandestine office in Building Seven was discovered, an agency spokesman told the newspapers that a special team had been dispatched to scour the rubble in search of secret documents and intelligence reports, though there were millions, if not billions of pages floating in the streets. Nevertheless, the spokesman was confident. “There shouldn’t be too much paper around,” he said.

And Customs at first claimed that everything was destroyed. That the heat was so intense that everything in the evidence safe had been baked to ash. But some months later, they announced that they had broken up a huge Colombian narco-trafficking and money-laundering ring after miraculously recovering crucial evidence from the safe, including surveillance photos and heat-sensitive cassette tapes of monitored calls. And when they moved in to their new building at 1 Penn Plaza in Manhattan, they proudly hung on the lobby wall their Commissioner’s Citation Plaque and their big round US Customs Service ensign, also miraculously recovered, in pristine condition, from their crushed and cremated former office building at the World Trade Center."

..................

 

[wespelarno]

Purt, I have similair information proving AIDS is a form of gay cancer, and that H5N1 avian influenza was infact a government constructed media scare program to allow the USA via the redcross to inject unsuspecting locals in oil rich countries with a combination of smallpox, herpes and mercury, all in the name of a vaccination against said non-existant avian influenza to allow them to set up a government and dictate global oil prices while removing constitutional rights of Americans by declaring state of emergency. It blames Jews and Zionists a lot.

Check it out

But, nobody takes them seriously either. Evidence from that reporter is at best circumstantial and basically resoundes of conspiracy theory.


If the mosque isn't physically at ground zero and it is built as a site of religious worship as opposed to dominance, I don't see any issue, but that argument doesn't even factor into this.

 

[Arete]

Wes beat me to it - but I was coming in with the more insipid "evolution doesn't exist - here's the evidence!" articles.

 

[martinpb]

.

Hey Wespelarno,
didn't you know that Obama was the one who started the process that lead to the CIA blowing up their own towers so that he could ride the wave of liburul populism into power, fueled by the scientist's propoganda about gobal warming, in order to disolve the US government and hand over power to the UN who will then put all of the true thinking people in the world into FEMA's concentration camps so that they won't cause any trouble during the rise of the illuminati and the antichrist's domination of the earth. And you're right about the vax conspirisy, CSL, GSK, Baxter... are all in on it. The US government stole the swine flu from the biowarfare labs at USAMRID and took it over the boarder so that the outbreak would start from Mexico and then tried to instigate a mass vax policy which would have turned out to be "tainted" meaning that all the suckers who did get the shot (and that would be everyone if you didn't want to end up in FEMA's hands) would then be contaminated with a disease like AIDS but with a much shorter inncubation once you stop taking the drugs that prevent it from killing you! What went wrong was that they stole the wrong batch...

 

[wespelarno]

The message is:

If you open your mind too much, your brain falls out.

 

[Drizz]

The message is:

If you open your mind too much, your brain falls out.

Nah! The tin-foil hat stops that!

 

[martinpb]

Nah! The tin-foil hat stops that!

does it also stop people coming along and throwing any old junk into it?

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

"
I’ve described all of this extensively in my book,

I think everything that needs to be said is summed up in that sentence and what a good book it is too! I got ripped abs in 4 weeks, met attractive singles in my local area AND learned to master the powers of attraction after buying it!!!

 

[Hugle]

I have been following this thread with interest, if you have the time i think this may be an interesting/relevant read:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0905/Why-Islamophobia-is-less-thinly-veiled-in-Europe

 

[Ben-e]

This has become an issue of politics

I agree with Dozer, it would be unconstitutional to disallow the construction of such a building. But this isn't to say that construction should go ahead. Is this issue a question of general hatred towards Islamic followers? What are the real reasons for/against its construction? Regardless, this issue seems to have been completely blown out of proportion, for the sake of politics, which is now overshadowing the real meaning behind a memorial.
Bigotry seems to be the 'real' issue here. Is see no problem in constructing a religious center near ground zero; its just that most people associate Islam with terrorism. However, I think that sensitivity must be practiced in the finer architectural details of the building perhaps, a toned-down facade.

 

[dcrofty]

However, I think that sensitivity must be practiced in the finer architectural details of the building perhaps, a toned-down facade.

I think its just renos for an existing building?

 

[Ham]

I think everything that needs to be said is summed up in that sentence and what a good book it is too! I got ripped abs in 4 weeks, met attractive singles in my local area AND learned to master the powers of attraction after buying it!!!

Not to mention the increase in penis length.