The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.
- Thread starter johnny
- Start date
Andy.G
Likes Dirt
Yep, I like where you're going with that Johnny ...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again ... with all due respect - fuck the Liberals.
The world at this moment somehow seems to me like a prelude to the action-bit in a Will Smith movie about some apocalyptic event ... piece together the soundbites - add the many I've missed and extrapolate at will.
"International war on terrorism"
"Terrorism seems to be still winning"
"Oil Prices"
"Food Prices"
"Interest rates"
"Poor people getting poorer, rich getting richer"
"Natural Disasters killing fucking squillions, famine and disease killing more"
"Political instabilities and nut jobs like Mugabe and the Burmese junta"
Is it a coincidence, is it by design, or is it indeed THE causal factor that the old Cold War days of scaring the living shit out of the entire world with poised fingers over mythical triggers ready to unleash nuclear hell, are ended ??
Maybe the freedom to act has brought a propensity to act ... stupidly.
Did I say fuck the Liberals yet ??
I've said it before, and I'll say it again ... with all due respect - fuck the Liberals.
The world at this moment somehow seems to me like a prelude to the action-bit in a Will Smith movie about some apocalyptic event ... piece together the soundbites - add the many I've missed and extrapolate at will.
"International war on terrorism"
"Terrorism seems to be still winning"
"Oil Prices"
"Food Prices"
"Interest rates"
"Poor people getting poorer, rich getting richer"
"Natural Disasters killing fucking squillions, famine and disease killing more"
"Political instabilities and nut jobs like Mugabe and the Burmese junta"
Is it a coincidence, is it by design, or is it indeed THE causal factor that the old Cold War days of scaring the living shit out of the entire world with poised fingers over mythical triggers ready to unleash nuclear hell, are ended ??
Maybe the freedom to act has brought a propensity to act ... stupidly.
Did I say fuck the Liberals yet ??
demo man
Used to be cool.
That's a great post mate!
RacelineBoy
Likes Dirt
Personally before the elections I believe that the Liberal Parties policies were better. However now that Kevin Rudd is in office, there isn’t much difference between the parties. Is this good for democracy? I don’t think so.
I don’t like Kevin Rudds environmental polices (budget) and immegration policies. He has cut the solar power rebate: eek: and 35c of petrol is tax. Cut that and take it from somewhere else, higher income earners. Also more skilled immegration less refuges and auslum seekers.
I don’t like Kevin Rudds environmental polices (budget) and immegration policies. He has cut the solar power rebate: eek: and 35c of petrol is tax. Cut that and take it from somewhere else, higher income earners. Also more skilled immegration less refuges and auslum seekers.
bazza
look at me
you aren't serious are you?
i still don't see why the wealthy have to be targeted ALL THE TIME. wow you just worked your ass off/got through years of uni now we are going to tax you as harshly as we can! its the lamest excuse for a budget but it makes all the 'working class' seem to lose their shit over it.
nizai
Likes Dirt
Yeah because that makes alot of sense. How long will it take for that 35c's worth to be taken up by increasing oil prices? It gives us what, 12-18 months respite and depletes the Australian governments coffers by... wait for it...
10.5 BILLION DOLLARS
You name me the education and health programs youd like to see cut to make up for that eh?
For the record thats according to ABS statistics which states in 2003 Australia as a whole used 27,564 million litres of petrol. At a rate of 38 cents per litre of excise that equals 10.5 billion (excluding the GST component).
Everyone seems so keen to cut petrol excise without thinking of the consequences incurred. These same people would be up in arms if Labor wasnt running budget surpluses and putting money away into future funds, spending more on health and education and so on.
If they cut excise, wheres it going to come from?
Only the US Fed can pull money out of its arse, and look where it got them.
N
Drizz
Likes Dirt
No, thats not wealthy you are describing, thats the middle class. Wealthy are the people with most of their assets in a trust floating somewhere in bahamas and an army of lawyers/accountants to do battle with the tax office.
Face it - Western base social model is all about poping people up to the middle class and raping them for cash! These poor folks have constant commercials to remind them they not wealthy because their TVs/House/Car/Penis is not big enough.
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wombat
Lives in a hole
Derr, all those silly investements into hippy energy for a start!
Once they rip the excise out of the petrol prices, everybody can go back to being able to afford to power fill up their, and totally forget that there is a generally huge upwards trend in oil prices.
That way, this whole energy crisis thing can be largely forgotten, and noboy will give a shit about what we're going to do in 15 years time!
scooter
Likes Bikes
You're not much of a Liberal, are you?
The key to solving our current petrol price issues is simple:
remove all taxes on petrol
give massive tax cuts to the middle and upper classes so they can fill up their landcruisers to take the kids to school
subsidise said landcruisers as a commercial vehicle
stop all spending on education and infrastructure
then when the arse falls off our economy blame Labor/young people/poor people/muslims.
Score!
Hobzai
Likes Bikes
I'm more than a little annoyed with the Blame Labor Brigade at present. The ANZ sowed a seed in the media regarding double digit interest rates - they're trying to create a self-licking icecream, I think.
Anyway, the Blame Labor Brigade jump all over it and it's all "I told you so" and "Give Labor a chance and they've destroyed this country" and so on. On interest rates and fuel prices, they're right on it. It's All Rudd's Fault.
They've been in office SIX MONTHS and got handed a shit sandwich to begin with. And no, I don't think rising interest rates were John Howard's fault, but he shouldn't have made the mistake of claiming credit for low rates.
It's no wonder political media campaigns work so well in this country, we're all stupid.
Anyway, the Blame Labor Brigade jump all over it and it's all "I told you so" and "Give Labor a chance and they've destroyed this country" and so on. On interest rates and fuel prices, they're right on it. It's All Rudd's Fault.
They've been in office SIX MONTHS and got handed a shit sandwich to begin with. And no, I don't think rising interest rates were John Howard's fault, but he shouldn't have made the mistake of claiming credit for low rates.
It's no wonder political media campaigns work so well in this country, we're all stupid.
stoff
Likes Dirt
I have decided to wait a full 12 months before I start blaming them.
Any reduction in fuel tax is not going to mean much if our dollar begins to get back to a more normal US65-75c range.
scblack
Leucocholic
Bahahahahahaha!
Following that same argument red death, Howard was simply working flat out for the decade he was in power correcting the crap created by Keating and Hawke.
Labor loved to spout about "stopping the blame game" - but it is all Labor supporters do - attempt to blame Howard. How about instead of simply blaming Howard all you Labor groupies, please provide us with some genuine good policy implemented by Labor from their own devices. That will be a very quiet argument I know, but try giving it a go.
Lets track Labors economic credentials so far shall we:
- Implementing John Howard & Peter Costello's income tax cuts - Tick.
- Fuel Watch for cheaper petrol - Cross (according to Treasury advice).
- Inquiry into grocery prices - Cross (no cheaper groceries round here).
- Cutting solar rebates - Tick (crap policy but its a tick).
- Increasing FBT Tax - Tick.
- Raising Medicare Levy threshold - Tick (but its unbudgeted, uncosted).
pull ya head in mate!
Why have you quoted me? My post does not suggest all Howard's policies are shit, nor all Rudd's gold. Simply making the point that different policies take different times to come to fruition, whether bad or good. Struth, I recall some time ago posting that the NT aboriginal intervention would be years before we could judge whether it was a good or bad thing.And of course some of the Hawke-Keating changes affected outcomes while Howard was in office! No brainer that one!
I offer you the opportunity to refute my statement:
with a logical argument rather than hysteria
Andy.G
Likes Dirt
I hate having TV envy ...No, thats not wealthy you are describing, thats the middle class.
These poor folks have constant commercials to remind them they not wealthy because their TVs/House/Car/Penis is not big enough.
The Australian scientific research community put up with year after year of budget reductions and incresed competition for less and less money under Howard, until the final couple of budgets, when a chunk of cash was poured back into Australian science. Yeah a good percentage was pork barrelling - unfortunately the addition of last minute funding didn't remove the sourness of years of cutbacks and it probably didn't help Howard's flagging popularity very much.
Australia's brain drain, touted as a good thing by the Libs - "they'll go overseas in their early careers and come back with all that experience" wasn't working. Top scientists, in advanced stages of their careers were taking their bat, ball and entire programmes overseas - e.g. the Moritz Evolutionary biology lab going from UQ to Berkley, and the Caccone lab going from USyd to Yale, and not coming back. Macquarie, my former institution looks like a very quickly sinking ship with academics running while they can. Australia dropped from a top 20 research country to off the top 50 charts.
Unfortunately it looks like Mr Swan and Mr Rudd in their "Oh noes intrests rates!!!1111!!!" scramble to hack off the pork barrelling of the last Howerd budget have taken a logging team to research funding in the country, and huge chunks of funding that was hard fought over years to get out of the Howard government have been completely taken. 3 positions were cut from our institution, ending next month.
Well done Krudd, you've lost some of your strongest supporters and it's a dark day for Australian scientific excellence and any notions of this being a "smart" country. When my tenure runs out, I'm looking abroad.
I agree with a lot of the things he has done - apology, Iraq withdrawal, etc., but education revolution, pig's arse. Economy at all costs, again. I won't vote for this government again, but I won't vote Nelson either. Looks like it's donkey vote or the Greens.
Australia's brain drain, touted as a good thing by the Libs - "they'll go overseas in their early careers and come back with all that experience" wasn't working. Top scientists, in advanced stages of their careers were taking their bat, ball and entire programmes overseas - e.g. the Moritz Evolutionary biology lab going from UQ to Berkley, and the Caccone lab going from USyd to Yale, and not coming back. Macquarie, my former institution looks like a very quickly sinking ship with academics running while they can. Australia dropped from a top 20 research country to off the top 50 charts.
Unfortunately it looks like Mr Swan and Mr Rudd in their "Oh noes intrests rates!!!1111!!!" scramble to hack off the pork barrelling of the last Howerd budget have taken a logging team to research funding in the country, and huge chunks of funding that was hard fought over years to get out of the Howard government have been completely taken. 3 positions were cut from our institution, ending next month.
Well done Krudd, you've lost some of your strongest supporters and it's a dark day for Australian scientific excellence and any notions of this being a "smart" country. When my tenure runs out, I'm looking abroad.
I agree with a lot of the things he has done - apology, Iraq withdrawal, etc., but education revolution, pig's arse. Economy at all costs, again. I won't vote for this government again, but I won't vote Nelson either. Looks like it's donkey vote or the Greens.
b_S
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Stop trying to play yourself as the poor innocent Liberal supporter that's picked on like a geek at school - most "pro labour" arguments put up here of late are relatively objective, screaming "you're a labour fanboy" only weakens the merit of your arguments, to the point where you're coming accross as much a Liberal fanboy as you're accusing others of being over Labour.
Same goes for everyone else too, now the election's been and gone we can worry more about issues at hand than who we want to lead. Let's forget teams and sides and focus on policies and results. The sooner we move on from fanboyism and typical media-hype brainwashing the better for everyone...
scblack
Leucocholic
Well, how about you actually complete the sentence of mine that you have partially quoted and do EXACTLY what you have sprouted as your idea.
Please please please provide me with good Labor policy......... objectively that should be dead simple as they are in power in every state and now federally as well. Yep, please just provide me with some good policy and good results.
Currently yes, I vote Liberal but your "fanboy" labelling unfortunately falls dead flat due to the fact I have voted Labor in the past, when Hawke and Keating led Labor. They had some progressive policy back then - Floating the Dollar, CGT among others were good initiatives.b_S said:
The difference now is, I think current Labor policy is weak and seemingly directionless. Other than copying Liberal income taxes, saying Sorry or getting rid of WorkChoices (which they still have not shown WHAT they intend doing) there is very little difference to the Liberals. So why bother?
Did calling Labor supporters Groupies hit a sore point for you? Whether you say Groupies or fanboys its the same thing........
I will admit I am dissapointed so far with KRudd. The budget failed to provide any significant changes.
A couple of good policies.
Lost the solar rebate. Great idea, all it was/is is a very expensive way for the general public to subsidise rich folks guilt at their power usage. If we are going to address climate change - efficiency improvements and carbon taxes are the way to do it.
Upped the cutoff for the Medicare levy. All private healh cover does is pick out the most profitable, predominantly elective procedures, and leaves the public system with the less profitable ones. The private health companies have had it too good for too long.
A couple of good policies.
Lost the solar rebate. Great idea, all it was/is is a very expensive way for the general public to subsidise rich folks guilt at their power usage. If we are going to address climate change - efficiency improvements and carbon taxes are the way to do it.
Upped the cutoff for the Medicare levy. All private healh cover does is pick out the most profitable, predominantly elective procedures, and leaves the public system with the less profitable ones. The private health companies have had it too good for too long.
A transitional Act amending the Workplace Relations Act 1996, and dealing mostly with removing AWA's, ITEA's & limited other matters, was proclaimed 27/3/08.
The main amending Act will be the subject of an Exposure Draft in September. There are presently ongoing consultation with affected parties. As far as I can see (& I do keep up with this stuff - boring as it is to most people) so far Labor is putting up only that which was indicated pre-election (despite lobbying from unions & no doubt business also.)