Rider etiquette sticky?

[DaGonz]

I'm pretty sure if you read the rules (MTBA) that you will see the faster rider has right of way.

Kinda...

5.3.9. Riders must act in a sporting manner at all times and shall permit any faster rider to overtake without obstruction at the earliest opportunity.

So... you shouldn't purposly obstruct a faster rider but earliest opportunity is pretty open to interpretation(unless a comissaire can come along and give their take) but most I'm sure would see that as not stopping and pulling off into the bushes just because you yelled track. It's actually poorly worded to some extent as it doesn't define of whom the onus is on to keep clear if at all and when that onus is lifted. It's odd actually as most vehicular sports are clear in giving the onus on the overtaking vehicle to keep clear untill they have overtaken. They are pretty much the same as the UCI ones though (which makes sense... that they're the same that is)

certainly specific events such as the Australian Solo 24hr mountain bike championships are run under these rules but often include additional clauses:

http://www.ozmtbsolo24hrchamps.com.au/events/rules.asp

Oddly, Despite not being a new thing and the age of the MTBA tech regs, there are no concessions made for "enduro" style events, specifically outside assistance at such events where bike swapping and mechanics are the norm really.

At the end of the day, if you wanted to get narky about the tech reg, I'm sure this part:

5.3.9. Riders must act in a sporting manner at all times

should at least mean you should at the very least keep your elbows tucked in when you pass someone.

*shrug*

Cheers
Gonz

 

[jen]

Littering lead to disqualification

Maybe organisers need to take littering seriously and DSQ any teams/solo riders that have been spotted littering. This rule is in the Three Peaks race in Tassie - a sailing/trail running event and is made very clear in pre-race briefing.

I have done a few enduro events and have only had one nasty rider push his way past, forcing me to pull off and come to a stop. If he had a number on his rear I certainly would have fount out who he was and had a word, it' just not necessary and is really intimidating.

 

[Knut]

Common Dog

If you are tapping along and you hear a rider behind, ask if he/she wants to pass or indicate where he/she can slip by. If you approach a rider, ask if you can pass, when THEY are ready. Thank them as you overtake, courtesy draws respect. Ignorance repells it. You are roughly asserting the same amount of effort, just the skill and fitness levels are dissimillar. Go easy on each other. Fitness comes and goes, you can be the passer or the passee, depending on how much time you get to train (not always how awesome you/they are). Have fun, easier on everyone that way.

Littering is the second most uncoolest thing to do, if elite women can put ALL of their goo wrappers in their pocket, we all can.

It IS up to organisers to disciplin competitors. Vico has noticed a turn in aggro and littering since guidelines were set at the race briefs. It has made things better all round.

You want the chance to do the same thing next year so race hard, enjoy the event and have fun.

 

[akashra]

Can we also be clear that asking to pass implies doing so at a volume audible by humans - whispering 'track please' in your best mouse impersonation voice and then getting shitty at the rider in front when they don't even realize you're there probably indicates you're not doing it right
I've lost count of the number of riders who have cracked the shits when passing me because I've not even heard them.

And yes, when you're riding solo after 6+ hours, you do start to think you're hearing things. No, we're not going to pull over every time we think we hear a twig snap - we need to know for certain a rider is there.


As for littering, hell yeah more needs to be done. Unfortunately I've not yet seen a single rider warned or penalized despite the mess made even when it's been reported by spectators at some races - it's clearly a hollow threat.

 

[monc]

Probably been said before, but the same goes for yelling "TRACK' while still 200m away and expecting the slower rider to know that it's them that's being spoken to. I have enough trouble trying to go as fast as I can over the trail in front of me, let alone keeping track of how many people may be behind me.

 

[robbieraver]

this really pisses me off, im riding along having a great day and i get some fukn racer type huffn and puffn calling " RIDER" as he rides towards me expecting me to move just because he "races" and i dont, there fore i have to move to let him pass, no thanks when i do move even tho im not given the choice to move because this rider just rides straight at me..... now im no slow coach and i like to ride fast aswell but fuk me im so sick of this im better than you attitude, next rider that does this is going to get me telling him to fuck right off.


just my 2 cents.....

 

[robbieraver]

this really pisses me off, im riding along having a great day and i get some fukn racer type huffn and puffn calling " RIDER" as he rides towards me expecting me to move just because he "races" and i dont, there fore i have to move to let him pass, no thanks when i do move even tho im not given the choice to move because this rider just rides straight at me..... now im no slow coach and i like to ride fast aswell but fuk me im so sick of this im better than you attitude, next rider that does this is going to get me telling him to fuck right off.


just my 2 cents.....

im must add that this is just on local trails, no races......f%ck you racer boys who have no respect of fun loving souls....

as you can tell im pissed right off....

 

[gixer7]

im must add that this is just on local trails, no races......f%ck you racer boys who have no respect of fun loving souls....

as you can tell im pissed right off....

Chill Winston.

But you're right and this is poor form even in a race and you should always say thanks - is just polite.

But there are all sorts of tools out there.

Last year at Manly Dam nearly took out a guy on in the middle of the track on a blind corner in narrow singletrack cause he had stopped to answer his mobile

But just remember this is probably the minority of riders out there.

Best example I have seen is from this years Scott. Last lap I come up on 2 solo riders - one is Ed Hood and in front of him is Jason English. Knowing he has been on the bike for 24 hours solid I back off and just wait for a clear path to overtake instead of pushing past on a narrow part of the trail.

Well blow me down if he doesn't notice I am there, moves out of the way and tells Ed who is following him to also give me some clear track too.

I never even said a word and was happy to wait. But that sort of attitude from the guy who won the solo race makes up for all the try hard wannabes out there.

 

[Knut]

Yes, I absolutely aggree. Racing and riding are not the same.Things have changed a bit in Victoria over the last 12 months, mainly due to organisers making the stance of no tolerance regarding that type of anti-social behavior. If you are polite to someone when passing/being passed it will enhance yours and their experience. More importantly it will be recipricol later on somewhere on the trail or the carpark.

Calling "rider" on a trail is for the safety and ease of management of individuals. But the arrogance and ignorance of expecting someone to get out of your way is like calling your wave before you have caught it. NOT ON. Works both ways of course. I can understand that there are people out there training and stuff, but remember where you started. Ok, it is great to have elite athletes and races. But an organiser is not going to put on an event for elites only. There needs to be a spread of skill and fitness level.

No-ne has the right to sour anyone elses MTB experience.Train harder and beat that guy on the trail and pass him and demonstrate exactly how it should be done. Then you will teach him the lesson he needs. Most of all, have fun guys.

 

[From.Out.Of.Nowhere]

I haven't had any problems passing or being passed at slow or medium pace, but am curious as to other peoples views on the following...

* Doesn't matter how much faster you think you are, fast or techy corners & descents are not places to overtake, Full stop.

Seems like common sense to me but a couple of recent experiences have me wondering about what others think.

At a recent race I was almost taken out 'Jared Graves Olympic BMX' style by a rider coming into a sweeping downhill corner waaay too fast, not realizing that the rider in front (me) was going slower due to the fact that the corner sharpened and turned off-camber towards the exit, and not because of inferior ability. This was not during a 4X or sprint style race, but a proper XC race with laps of around half an hour.

Then at a recent ride with a group of unfamiliar riders on a track unfamiliar to them but not me, and despite the pre-descent advice that due to the nature of the track we should space ourselves out a bit, people were still trying to overtake. Now I know that it can be great fun to hook into a train of riders plowing down a trail at speed, but this wasn't one of those times. The track in question was a very rocky and rutted fire trail where lines zig zag over the full width of the trail and you really need a good field of view to ride it properly. Sure, this wasn't a race but that doesn't mean anything goes does it?

XC races are simply not won on the downhills and surely the benefit of getting past a marginally slower rider can't be worth the risk of crashing out of the race alltogether?

 

[Big JD]

Havent raced in 18 years

I had such a tragic experience at a 6 hour race some 18 years ago l have not raced since. I had a "racer" elbow me off the course in the first hour of the race at the begining of a SS section which was fine with me..... fuck him. He then rode up the arse of a nice old 50 something rider yelling abuse, swearing and touching tyres. They just made it out of the SS and the older gent moved/ pushed over. The young (sponsored) rider ripped passed in a cloud of abuse. This wanker pulled out of the race a few laps later (lots of mud) and while l was still in the race, l stopped and confronted him about his actions in front of race officals. He then rallied up his mates to throw things at me each time l came around the short course loop. I finished second last with the elderly gent last in 24th. 70 odd riders started so heaps pulled out. For the older guy it was his first and last mountain bike event...... still in contact. For me, never that competative but l wouldnt bother still. As for the racer, he was eventually cornered by a very muddy and tired 6 foot 5, built like a brick shit house, extremely pissed off, 23rd placed enduro rider who rammed home the expected etiquette for mountain biking and living in general. I see that guy every now and then and even after 18 years l believe he still recalls the feeling of my hands around his throat and the scent of mud being driven into his face. Some lessons in manners can be explained / taught............ some require reinforcement with a lump of wood. As in society in general there are tossers everywhere.................... aint our place to teach em respect / manners...............lead by example............but in any competative enviroment the shit seems to float to the surface.
JD

 

[mercman74]

Trail Rage

guy's i've read through your posts about this topic. The common thread i see in the comments is that were all out there to have fun and are dissapointed by the minority of clods who get that rush of blood. Ive been competing in local corc races and 24hour events for about 5 years now and i love it. One of the main reasons for my participation is that i could ride with elite athletes and learn so much from them. THe community feel that the mountain bike stage provides is great.
In the recent mont 24hour i was surprised at how many novices were out on the course. Even i was overtaking people. It would seem to me that the minority of competitors are missing the bigger picture at these events. Its about promoting our sport and increasing the numbers, and by doing that we increase Australia's potential for new talent possibly for the world stage. So just like any other sport the elete teams also have a duty to lead by example, and i have the upmost respect for the majority of those elete riders who do exactly that. Hats off to you guys.
To me Track is a question/request. Not a demand. Having slower people on the course challenges your strategy skills as well as physical abilities. Lets not forget that those slower riders are also fatiguing on the course and will make some silly mistakes also. I found that by my last lap at the mont i was able to antisipate the passing time and was overtaking alot more efficiently. I thinks as long as we continue to mix novice and elete together ( my preference) then we will also get some argy bargy. Lets look on the positive, its always a minority..

Mike

 

[eelot]

Non-Race etiquette

I feel like there needs to be some clear declarations about non race etiquette. I scanned through this thread and most of it is race oriented. Bad manors on race day are so obvious because of the number of riders and the competition that gets the ire up. So lets talk a bit about recreation and training rides. There's a few special issues: two way traffic, mixed use trails, trail conditions, etc. Here's a few rules I ride by please add or subtract.
1. Stay in control, or know the track is clear if you want to push it.
2. Give way to climbing riders this might spoil your flow but gravity will help you get it back. A dab free trip up your nemesis climb is a rare and precious thing.
3. Make some noise when coming down fast. say wippeeee! its fun and can save a crash when rule 2 is impossible to observe.
4. Help your fellow bikers. nuff said.
5. Go easy on tracks: dont skid (get some skills). Don't make new routes around obstacles (see above) walk if you can't ride. Avoid really wet tracks. Do a little maintenance loose rock derailer hungry stick
6. Be nice, it's fun right? lets not scare off all the potential cycle buddies/bunnies with your pre-race day visualization face.
7. Get off for horses as much as I hate what they do to a soft track and riding through there leavings, it too dangerous to spook the big stupid hayburners. call out get off and say hi to the beasts to put them at ease.
8. Pass walkers slowly remember slow is a relative term

Ok this is way to long, but I wanted to say something.

 

[tex72]

If you pack it in. Pack it out.

ie. gel wrappers, dead tubes etc.

 

[bunchridefinder]

MTB Link

Hi Gonz, great article mate - do you mind if I feature it on my site and link back to your quote?
Cheers,

Ok I know this is some shameless self promotion but...

I wrote this some time ago... There's some irony in the context of this post I won't go into
*shrug*

Cheers
Gonz

 

[Tee Man]

Just 2 cents from a relatively new rider/racer on the scene based on recent experience ...

1. Slower riders exist. Deal with it, it's part of the race. As part of your race strategy (and without doing it insincerely), I would think it prudent that you be polite and be as nice as possible to whomever you're passing. This includes (as Gonz has suggested) having a small conversation with them, especially on the longer enduros where everyone is hurting. He/she will appreciate the momentary distraction from the hurt and any encouragement you can provide. I appreciate the distraction the conversation brings as well. They will be more willing to go out of their way to let you pass. Even moreso if you encounter them again. A simple "Hi again" reinforces this and without even asking, you'll find them letting you pass as soon as they realise it's you.

2. Most riders are aware of the importance of keeping momentum up technical pinches. As a follow on from point 1 above, if a slower rider is in front of you and is likely to stop you from keeping that momentum, too bad, deal with it. Not everyone can be as awesome as you just because you can power up techie climbs.

3. I will go out of my way to let a faster rider through. Now this is not for everyone, however .. I will usually ask "Do you want to pass?" even before he/she calls "Track". If I get a "Yes", I will immediately start thinking where ahead would be the best place. I'll respond with something like, "No worries, let me just get down this techie descent, then you can go on my left/right/inside/outside just up here on the fire road / after the next turn / etc". More often than not, you're remembered for your courtesy and more patience is provided to you should they need to pass you again. But beware, if I don't get a sense of gratitude, don't expect the same level of courtesy from me ever again. Ever!

4. I reiterate, have a conversation. After that short conversation, it needs to be clear to both the passer and the passee how the passing is going to occur. A coordinated effort makes for less incidents.

5. Lastly, (in relation to just general riding), unless a track is signposted as one way only, don't assume that it is. At the risk of being shot down .. I refer in particular to The Oaks single track. I frequently like to ride UP the track from Glenbrook to the picnic area. Now there's obvious peak times (like mid saturday/sunday mornings) when I wouldn't venture up there knowing that there'd be a multitude of people barrelling down. But when I do venture up, I make a concerted effort to listen out for oncoming riders ready to yell "RIDER!" straight away. And contrary to the general rule of thumb that the uphill rider has right of way, I'm aware that I'm doing something out of the norm and I will stop, hop off the bike if needed and clear the track for the oncoming rider. What I don't appreciate is the number of snide comments I've received from oncoming riders recently, who mumble under their breath things like "Yeah, real smart". Just so I can get it off my back, P*SS OFF! It's a shared track (so you should be ready to stop if there are walkers) and it's not one way. So take your attitude elsewhere but here.


But as a lot of people have mentioned, some people are just *ssholes. And as much as we'd like to keep them out of our sport, we need to accept that and just do what we can to keep up the stereotypical friendly attitude associated with MTBing.

 

[Toughy]

Although we're all out there to have fun and generally slower riders are more than willing to let faster ones pass, there are different skill levels involved at the time. What might look like a great area of track and opportunity to pass for a faster rider might still be a challenging section for a slow one. Patience is a virtue and a bit of courtesy goes a long way.

 

[FR Drew]

Tail Numbers

As a general rule, unless someone is very obviously on a sponsored team or has a particular and rare bike (like Perren's prototype AS-R Carbon) it's all but impossible to know who you just got passed by, any more than it's easy to know what the number was of a bus that you just missed if it doesn't have a rear number. (For the record Perren has always been polite when passing me)

If arseholes had to have clearly visible rear numbers as well as front numbers and knew that they would be reported to race officials and potentially disqualified for track aggro then I feel there would be far less of it happening.

Any race where you have 2000 riders, if only 1% are pushy then there will be 20 tools out on the track. They will be passing those of us who are more at the novice level, it's just part of being one of the slower riders.

For my own part, as soon as I hear a rider behind me I'll take a quick look to see if they are alone or in a pack and how fast they are coming. I will call out to them "track if you want it". If I see a suitable spot coming up, even if they haven't caught me yet, I'll call out something like "take the inside on this next turn" or "pass on the right after this next gum tree" and back right off to slow so they can get by.

Even if I'm fatigued I will do what I can to get through any tight pinches as fast as quick as I can so as to cause the minimal delay.

Once they go past I'll say "hope you have a great lap" or similar.

Passing is a two person process and slower riders can do an awful lot to make things easier. You can't make the arseholes change their spots, but you can reduce their impact a lot.

 

[unitec]

parking

Just a quick call out to riders that park in the vicinity of downhilling shuttle turn arounds to consider the needs of others.
Often when trying to do shuttle runs. you find that an XC rider has parked in the turn around spot (either at the top or the bottom of the trail) and gone off for his ride leaving the area in chaos.
My guess is that these riders are simply unaware of the inconvenience they are causing because they are unfamiliar with the hassles associated with shuttling.
This problem exists on many trails I have been to however Oxford Falls is one that that also has a knock on effect of inconveniencing local residents.
cheers

 

[Chris kelly]

Rider Etiquette

Hey.

When I did the 8 hour wannaride race in Awaba state forest last year I had a crash on one of the switchbacks and somehow ended up with my bike across the path after clipping a tree, on the ground still clipped in. The guy behind he stopped and helped me out. The next rider called track and instead of slowing down ran into me, swearing and cursing that I had blocked the track. Talk about a dick.

I would say I do my fair share of passing and being passed, and generally most people are nice about it, I guess there is just the few that think they are all it, and I don't think that is going to change.