Rider etiquette sticky?

[Dreggsy]

with all this hoo haa regarding the race on the weekend
Should we have a sticky on rider ettiquete?

I.

i.e passing, calling track, number of riders.

When I passed a few riders on course
I did tell them that there were more behind me.

i.e. Hi how are you going? If you see a gap can we pass when you get a chance?
there's me plus 1 behind me.

and once passed,
great, thank you have a good day.

my 2c

 

[Le Matelot]

Overtaking Rules

Here are the basic rules that CORC has in place for our various 24Hr races... Now, CORC doesn't make the rules for racing, but so far these rules have worked OK for 11,998 riders in our 24Hr races since we put them in place formally in 2003.

Right-of-Way, Passing and Being Passed

A rider walking their bike must give way to any rider who is riding their bike.

There are separate rules for right of way when exiting from helper and feed zones. In summary, when exiting from the feed or helper zone, give way to your right.

Calling 'Track'. Calling 'Track' does not give a rider the right to expect the rider in front to allow them to pass, however a clearly slower or lapped rider should not obstruct a faster rider. A rider coming up behind another rider and wishing to pass will call 'Track'. When the rider in front feels it is safe to do so, they will call 'On my Left/Right' and move to the appropriate side of the course to allow the overtaking rider to pass them on their Left/Right.

The rider being overtaken has right of way until the overtaking rider has passed and is one bike length clear. If the overtaking rider knows that there will be additional riders passing, the overtaking rider should call, for example, 'two more coming through' when they pass the rider being overtaken.

 

[gnarly_rider]

3/. Pick up your crap. Do not leave goo wrappers, punctured tubes, etc behind. You wouldn't do it bushwalking, so why do it MTBing? Being 'Ellite' is no excuse or justification....

 

[DaGonz]

with all this hoo haa regarding the race on the weekend Should we have a sticky on rider ettiquete?

Ok I know this is some shameless self promotion but...

I wrote this some time ago... There's some irony in the context of this post I won't go into

http://forums.farkin.net/showpost.php?p=1030384&postcount=43

I started writing a cleaner more generic version and is currently been sitting in my draft folder for quite a few months now. I should finish it off and post it up for comment.

I don't know if we need a whole thread on it though, the concept is pretty straight forward. The rider in front has right of way at all times, regardless of your speed, or their speed, or the relative positions in whatever race you think you're in.

*shrug*

Cheers
Gonz

 

[Some Guy]

The rider in front has right of way at all times, regardless of your speed, or their speed, or the relative positions in whatever race you think you're in.

But given we are talking about etiquette, it should be pointed out that it is downright rude to refuse to let a faster rider pass you if it safe to do so.

 

[DaGonz]

But given we are talking about etiquette, it should be pointed out that it is downright rude to refuse to let a faster rider pass you if it safe to do so.

For sure... but at what point does it then become acceptable for the faster rider to start extending elbows? I would argue that it's equally rude to barge through just because you think you're being held up. I certainly think that if you're an elite rider representing whatever company, you have no excuse. Sure nobody is perfect, people will have moments, bad days, be tired or grumpy, stuff a move up just in the heat of the moment or because despite calling, agreeing and everyone well aware of what's going on, make a mistake. But some riders seem to have more of a reputation for pointy elbows than others.

Cheers
Gonz

 

[John U]

with all this hoo haa regarding the race on the weekend
Should we have a sticky on rider ettiquete?

Good idea

3/. Pick up your crap. Do not leave goo wrappers, punctured tubes, etc behind. You wouldn't do it bushwalking, so why do it MTBing? Being 'Ellite' is no excuse or justification....

Absolutely. Rule applies to everyone, everywhere, all the time. Getting a bit off topic but you shouldn't do it walking down the street to the shops either.

I don't know if we need a whole thread on it though, the concept is pretty straight forward.

Would like to think you're right and agree that the concept is straight forward but from experience on the track it does not appear to be the case.

 

[ebuk]

Having the sticky will be a good idea for anyone unsure on the correct methods for passing etc.

As we all know it won't stop riders barging past or dropping gu wrappers etc. It's why I didn't bother to tell Stu about track agro on the weekend. The riders that behave this way are not going to listen to someone telling them to behave more appropriately.

 

[ebuk]

I don't know if we need a whole thread on it though, the concept is pretty straight forward.

Yup it is very straight forward. The majority will follow the same or similar views to each other (eg call track and wait, or track called and advise R/L when safe). The minority will continue to say passing right/left and expect to you to move out of there way straight away. Some riders are just jerks.



[Stampy butts another elephant]
Marge: Gosh, I thought he'd be happier in his true habitat.
Warden: Oh, I think he is.
Marge: Then why is he attacking all those other elephants?
Warden: Well, animals are not like people, Mrs. Simpson. Some of them
act badly because they've had a hard life, or have been
mistreated...but, like people, some of them are just jerks.
Stop that, Mr. Simpson.
[Homer butts the warden repeatedly]

 

[Some Guy]

For sure... but at what point does it then become acceptable for the faster rider to start extending elbows?

Never. It's against the rules, it's against the spirit of racing, it's just not on. If someone does block me I'll just sit there and watch the rider behind who I've been working my guts out to gap catch back up. If it's unsafe then I have no problem, but if you can move aside and allow the pass, you should. It really is no fun being held up excessively.

 

[Bodin]

Stick it!

At first I was dubious about sticking this thread, but having read the replies, Gonz's thread (definitely worth a read) and had a think about how many more people are giving racing a go, it's probably worthwhile making it prominent to see where it goes and what else people contribute, beyond what's here already. There's a hell of a lot of massive races around these days, attracting many hundreds and sometimes thousands of people, many of them very inexperienced, to the same track at the same time and there shouldn't be aggro in what's generally a friendly sport.

Having been both a fast and slow rider at various points over the last few years (my fitness varies wildly), I've developed massive respect for elite guys with manners and I continually get frustrated with naive, inexperienced people that make life difficult for people out there to make a living (like the pros...).

However, my strongest feelings are directed towards mid-pack riders that aggressively try and rule the track over their slower, less-experienced competitors, even though there isn't a place on a podium or any prize money at stake. I understand being driven to do your best at all times, but being rude to your fellow rider frankly shits me. I wouldn't take that attitude with my buddies on the trails, so I won't take it with people I don't know.

Friendly competition is what it's all about.

 

[liamo]

It's always sad to hear about poor behavior out on the track and it sometimes seems to me like it will always be an aspect of this sport. It really shouldn't be this hard.

For my 2c worth I think there's a similar proportion of tools in the elite ranks as there are in the mid pack (or the tail end for that matter...) Ebuk's analogy hit the nail on the head there.

I've seen and heard about enough poor behavior out there that I personally don't think that it can be entirely self regulated by the riders. When has a rider who has acted out of order ever been pulled up on their actions? And I mean something more than a quiet word in their ear...

There is a real fear about naming and shaming but I reckon it needs to happen. Organisers need to have the balls to enforce track rules and riders need to be aware that their actions can have consequences. At the moment this doesn't happen. Sure, it creates potential for innocent people to be unfairly accused but I know if someone said I was being a prick out there that I'd prefer to know about it and try to apologise or explain my side of the story there and then.

Calling 'Track' does not give a rider the right to expect the rider in front to allow them to pass, however a clearly slower or lapped rider should not obstruct a faster rider.

...if a jerk comes up behind someone clearly slower than them(from their POV), then this rule creates an expectation that the slower rider (who may not know they are clearly slower) must give way for them. The problem with this rule is that it only helps the ignorant. People who know the score don't need to be told and selfish jerks use it to justify their actions.

 

[trotts7]

My 2 cents

I have been racing for a few years now and have really noticed the difference that a good design makes to track agro. A track with frequent areas for passing, so that riders held up by slower folk know that they will soon hit a passing lane makes a big difference to the overall track attitude. I realise that this is hard to achieve but I recon its something that race organisers should be advised to consider!

 

[Slowpoke]

I am not particularly fast. I am happy to make room, but don't expect me to stop for you if you can't get past safely.

On the weekend I had about 5 metres to enter a single track (going uphill) when I heard 'track'. I did not sense someone on my tail, so I turned to see this bloke about 10 metres back. I wondered for a moment whether I should slow up but he did not seem to be gaining. I kept going and said (in my girliest voice), 'let me know when you are ready'. I heard him behind me from time to time, further and further in the distance, as we descended the single track.

In my experience, the really good riders are patient, courteous and take responsibility for passing safely. They seem to appreciate that slower riders are part of the racing experience.

 

[liamo]

The world is watching. Yet another reason to be nice in a race: avoiding international embarrasment

 

[dave3107]

3/. Pick up your crap. Do not leave goo wrappers, punctured tubes, etc behind. You wouldn't do it bushwalking, so why do it MTBing? Being 'Ellite' is no excuse or justification....

I agree whole-heartedly! I'm sick of seeing energy drink cans, Gatorade, Gu wrappers, etc lying around the place. Just another way to get the authorities to shut down trails AND wrecking the environmet. Come on - don't be scabby, lazy twits!

 

[bootey]

i have learnt something today - the ' track' concept - will start using instead of calling r/l even tho i only do so when its safe to pass. ta

 

[wittman13]

After having ridden the Scott 24 as a solo, I think that I went through the complete range of good & evil overtakers. I would like to say that there was only 0.27% bad experiences for me out on the track, but these are the ones that stay with you.

As an example, there were 2 of us solos in the hell hole that was the climb up to the caravan on the blue lap, and someone way behind called track. I do not know the exact particulars of what occurred behind but the super elite rider thought that he was in the right and then decided to go past the pair of us and swear like a trooper and demanded respect from the lesser mortals. What was exchanged between the other soloist I will never know. Firstly, we don't know who is behind us, secondly you earn respect by being respectful (something this guy knows nothing about) and lastly, you have hurt yourself, because I will not by another product from a company that sponsors you.

Another incident later in the race were another elite team rider decided to push of another soloist because he thought that there was room when there obviously wasn't. I would suggest to these guys that they a wearing a bill board for there sponsors and it looks bad on them.

On the flip side, every member of the Merida team that passed was polite and patient. So props to them.

If one takes an alternative look and correctly notes that these guys are professionals and are riding for their paychecks, that doesn't excuse them for behaving like knobs. If it is such a concern maybe the top guys should stay away from mass participation events where the know there is going to be issues with traffic.

As for the rubbish, Huw Kingstons suggestion on the start of last years fling works for me. Just put your empty wrapper up the leg of your knicks till you get back to transition. Simple, but it works.

End of Rant!

 

[Some Guy]

If one takes an alternative look and correctly notes that these guys are professionals and are riding for their paychecks, that doesn't excuse them for behaving like knobs.

Paychecks? What paychecks?

 

[jc1]

I'm pretty sure if you read the rules (MTBA) that you will see the faster rider has right of way. This should always be the case at a normal XC race. Start like fields together, ie have two waves starts to separate the elite and expert from the sport and juniors so that less passing takes place. I have been held up and I don't see how the slow person gains pleasure from being under pressure. I have also been passed plenty of times and I see no harm in pulling off the track for someone who is obviously faster and in the groove.

As for mass participation races it is a bit different. The same rule should still apply but people need to be a little more relaxed about trying to get passed. At last years Mont at Majura I had the pleasure of following one of the Elite women through a lap and I was amazed how one guy reacted and refused to let us through. As long as race organisers put up cash prizes for fast laps the elite guys are going to go hard.

Having said all of this at the races I organise I make a very strong point of the fact that any one who passes must say please ("track please") and must say thank you. We are all out there for a good time and my speed and your speed can be a hell of a lot different but we can both still have fun.