Planning and routing - why is so hard?

carpetrunner

carpetrunner

Likes Dirt
I must be missing something really simple here - I don't believe it could be that hard.

I have a small-ish GPS (edge 530) that is OK as a display of directions on the bars while riding - but far too small to do tour planning and routing.
I can do that with a laptop using basecamp - but that doesn't sound light or power efficient for bikepacking/touring.

Why can't I use an iPad? (or an iPad-mini?) - this has been asked many times on lots of other forums.

Garmin Basecamp, which isn't a great app, doesn't run under iOS, only macOS and windoze.

Komoot smells like it should do it, there is a PC app, an iPad app and a Garmin app...
but I can only see the <download to garmin device> button on the PC app
and I think that only works when the device is connected by cable using garmin express.
I haven't tried connecting the garmin to the iPad with a cable - my experience getting an iPad to talk to anything is not great.
Garmin looks like it will only bluetooth to one device at a time so even if there was a <download to garmin device> on the iPad there would be no way through.

There must be something obvious I'm missing here.

-Carpetrunner
 
T

timedward

Likes Dirt
MapOut is a great iOS app (not available on android as far as I'm aware). Runs off OSM maps that can be downloaded to your iPhone/iPad to work offline. Allows for route creation by just dragging one finger. I've found it pretty useful and you can share the GPX file from the app.
 
C

creaky

XMAS Plumper
Strava routing can be done on your phone, but it's a bit hit and miss and not editable once you trace a line.
 
Ackland

Ackland

chats d'élevage
Do you want this solution to help you make routes on the fly or display routes that you've made for navigation?
 
Calvin27

Calvin27

Eats Squid
My usual method for complex gravel grind is:

  1. Build the route with garmin connect. This can be done computer or phone. Phone app works surprisingly good.
  2. Transfer to garmin. Once again PC or phone works.
  3. Load the course on the garmin.

Voila.
 
Mattyp

Mattyp

Cows go boing
Ive been creating route on strava via laptop, then saving it. Garming Connect then does magic things with strava and the next time i turn on my edge530 it downloads it automatically.
 
carpetrunner

carpetrunner

Likes Dirt
Ackland said:
Do you want this solution to help you make routes on the fly or display routes that you've made for navigation?
Click to expand...
The garmin 530 is surprisingly good at dispalying the route for navigation - so I'm looking for making routes around the campfire the night before.
I've had a go at strava routes - agree with @creaky it's a bit clunky and won't work off line.

Maybe there's something I'm missing with Komoot - it looks like it should do it, but I think it needs to be online to get data from an iPad through bluetooth to the phone and up to the cloud then back down from the cloud through the phone and bluetooth to the garmin. Komoot also supports offline maps.

I have used oziexplorer for many years, it won't run on an iPad but does run on Android.

I think it is the data path to the garmin that is the problem. The only way in is through bluetooth to one device or a data cable. I hear that garmin's bluetooth stack is dedicated to work only with garmin connect, and using any cable other than a charger with an iPad is against Apples religious principles.

Thanks @bear the bear I'll have a play with ridewithGPS.

- carpetrunner
 
cokeonspecialtwodollars

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
RideWithGPS is the most intuitive for creating routes that I've come across however it needs a data connection to create routes and has similar issues to all of the others in getting the route to your Garmin device. The new Strava routes is light years better than the old one and the ability to overlay heatmaps is priceless however it is still clunky and as you've found you still need a data connection for the sync to work to your Garmin device. The best method that I've found is to plan your routes at home and reserve the campfire time to drinking and talking shit.

EDIT: An android device is going to be your best bet of achieving this, if you can find an app that will export a .gpx then all you need is a cable to your Garmin 530 and a file browser app so you can save the .gpx into the NewFiles folder of your device.
 
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Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
cokeonspecialtwodollars said:
. The best method that I've found is to plan your routes at home and reserve the campfire time to drinking and talking shit.
Click to expand...
This is what I would do but sometimes depending on where you're riding the original trail may have closed or is over grown by brush or a bridge may have collapsed, so you need to reroute on the go, this is where you rely on different base maps loaded into the Garmin. You can overlay your rides to google earth beforehand and try to work out if trails are unpassable sometimes too. I don't think the Garmin 530 has capability to run a SD card too, so it limits the memory for other base maps.
 
cokeonspecialtwodollars

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
Flow-Rider said:
This is what I would do but sometimes depending on where you're riding the original trail may have closed or is over grown by brush or a bridge may have collapsed, so you need to reroute on the go, this is where you rely on different base maps loaded into the Garmin. You can overlay your rides to google earth beforehand and try to work out if trails are unpassable sometimes too. I don't think the Garmin 530 has capability to run a SD card too, so it limits the memory for other base maps.
Click to expand...
True and while I usually advocate the (n)P's approach I can't recall a time where this has happened and we haven't been able to bush bash/wade through/detour around by following the Garmin topo map on the Edge 820.
 
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Oddjob

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Maybe not relevant to you but Komoot will download routes directly from my Galaxy s10 to my Garmin 1000.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
I think there might be a problem with connecting to the net, it needs to have the ability of reading different mapping offline as he wants to make new ride routes as he rides. I'd say some type of lightweight tablet with preloaded base maps and a mapping program is going to be the best option.
 
ozzybmx

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Hammerhead Karoo V1, your problems are exactly why I bought it. Runs on Android, the exact same operating system as the Samsung S9+ (marshmallow). Lightning fast, beautifuly graphics... the only downside is the weight and size.

Rather than a small(ish) GPS neatly fitted to your bike, this unit is like a TV screen, I still use it for most rides except its way too big for play days on my enduro bike, I then use my phone to record stravass on.
 
carpetrunner

carpetrunner

Likes Dirt
OK so big thanks to @timedward - MapOut is a great iOS app and well worth the $7.99 - the manual is wonderful.
It downloads OSM tiles when online and will perform routing offline to produce a gpx file. The UI is nice and clean.

Getting that 'gpx' off the iPad and putting a 'fit' in the Garmin 530 is a little fiddlie - but doable.
here's a simple 8 step process (I think it needs to be iOS13 or greater).
0- in MapOut download the OSM tiles of interest when online in the comfort of your lounge room
go for a ride out of internet reception - easier if you are on Vodafone.
1- talk shit round the campfire while creating route in MapOut
2- in Mapout, backup a zip of all courses to an iPad folder location - to force MapOut to save in 'gpx'
3- plug USB drive into the iPad (I use the garmin 530 as a USB drive)
4- on the iPad open the zip with iOS Files and share the gpx of interest onto the USB drive
5- plug the USB drive into mAndroid phone and open with FileCommander
6- select the gpx and share to Garmin Connect - which will convert it from gpx to fit and place it in the courses list on the phone
7- In Garmin Connect select the course, in the ... menu select download to device (over bluetooth).
8- talk more shit round the camp fire

thankyou to Apple for;
  • hiding the iPad file system so I can't just download the 'fit' from the iPad over USB into the Garmin.
  • stopping the use of the mAndroid phone as a USB drive - it works OK on a PC, why doesn't it work on an iPad?
thankyou to Garmin for only allowing one bluetooth connection to the 530 and making it a PIA to change.
thankyou to MapOut for making it more difficult than it needs to be to save a gpx.

- carpetrunner
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
That sounds like a lot of hard work, I can send a route out of basecamp straight to my garmin 800 by one press of a button and a USB cable.
 
cokeonspecialtwodollars

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
carpetrunner said:
OK so big thanks to @timedward - MapOut is a great iOS app and well worth the $7.99 - the manual is wonderful.
It downloads OSM tiles when online and will perform routing offline to produce a gpx file. The UI is nice and clean.

Getting that 'gpx' off the iPad and putting a 'fit' in the Garmin 530 is a little fiddlie - but doable.
here's a simple 8 step process (I think it needs to be iOS13 or greater).
0- in MapOut download the OSM tiles of interest when online in the comfort of your lounge room
go for a ride out of internet reception - easier if you are on Vodafone.
1- talk shit round the campfire while creating route in MapOut
2- in Mapout, backup a zip of all courses to an iPad folder location - to force MapOut to save in 'gpx'
3- plug USB drive into the iPad (I use the garmin 530 as a USB drive)
4- on the iPad open the zip with iOS Files and share the gpx of interest onto the USB drive
5- plug the USB drive into mAndroid phone and open with FileCommander
6- select the gpx and share to Garmin Connect - which will convert it from gpx to fit and place it in the courses list on the phone
7- In Garmin Connect select the course, in the ... menu select download to device (over bluetooth).
8- talk more shit round the camp fire

thankyou to Apple for;
  • hiding the iPad file system so I can't just download the 'fit' from the iPad over USB into the Garmin.
  • stopping the use of the mAndroid phone as a USB drive - it works OK on a PC, why doesn't it work on an iPad?
thankyou to Garmin for only allowing one bluetooth connection to the 530 and making it a PIA to change.
thankyou to MapOut for making it more difficult than it needs to be to save a gpx.

- carpetrunner
Click to expand...
If you "share" your .gpx file to the NewFiles folder on your 530 it should do the .fit conversion for you and save it as course.
 
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