Negative Feedback on ebay leading to civil suit

WolfCreekPsycho

WolfCreekPsycho

Likes Dirt
Hey guys,

Question for anyone that may be in a position to advise on this.

A friend of mine bought an outdoor umbrella off ebay. It broke within 24 hours. My friend contacted the seller and exchanged photo's and details etc of the broken item, but the seller says they stand by their product, no refund.

The umbrella was outside during the recent hailstorm, however where the umbrella broke was the latch that holds the umbrella open.
The seller claims they left it open in the storm and this is what caused the damage.

Now my friend left the following feedback "The product is rubbish and broke within 24 hours. The seller refuses to refund the money."

They tried the ebay feedback remediation service which failed to reach a happy medium.
The seller has now emailed my friend saying if they do not withdraw the feedback they will start a civil suit against her for libel and damages to her online reputation. She also has other umbrellas she wishes to sell and believes this bad feedback will prevent her from selling those so will also claim the cost of those in damages.

Initially I thought this is simple standover tactics, however a quick read on Ebay under the feedback section states buyers need to be very careful when leaving negative feedback:

"Feedback cannot be edited or removed once it has been left. It generally becomes a permanent part of a user's eBay record and is viewable by the entire eBay community. Users could be held legally responsible for damages to a user's reputation if a court were to find that the remarks constitute libel or defamation. Under U.S.A. federal law (the Communications Decency Act), because eBay does not censor feedback or investigate it for accuracy, eBay is not legally responsible for the remarks that users post, even if those remarks are defamatory. However, this law does not protect the person who leaves the feedback from responsibility for it. "

Now straight away this strikes me as being a copy paste from the US ebay so I am not too sure how relative this information is here in aus, nor what action my friend should be taking.

Anyone here having meaningful advice ?
 
toodles

toodles

Wheel size expert
I'm no legal expert but I thought liber/slander was only possible if there was an element of untruth?
 
Drop_Bear

Drop_Bear

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Libel is only valid when what you say is harmful to a persons reputation and is proven to be untrue. The fact is that the umbrella broke and they refused to refund the money. My advice would be to ask the seller what part of the comment is untrue and why.
 
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Mr Peabody

Mr Peabody

Likes Dirt
I wouldnt worry, i think they are trying to bluff you. Ive had negative feedback posted about me which i complained to ebay and the end result was thats their opinion and they are entitled to it. Seriously how much is an umbrella worth that they are going legal over.
 
slip

slip

Beefcake...BEEFCAKE!!!
Umbrella outside during hailstorm.

Umbrella breaks.

Sounds like end of story to me, especially if it was left open.

Private seller or Company? Sounds like Company if she has more to sell.
 
A

Arete

Likes Dirt
AFAIK, stating you are unhappy with a product does not constitute defamation... your friend is legitimately displeased with the product, and he simply stated an opinon. Defamation has to be delibrately injurious, publicly broadcast or published and generally, untrue.

As such, you friend is genuinely not impressed with the product. I doesn't matter if it didn't survive a nuclear holocaust and that's why he is not pleased. He bought it, it broke, seller refused to refund. He's allowed not to be happy and to vioce his displeasure and it doesn't matter how reasonable or unreasonable his displeasure is, so long as the comments he has are genuine and not ficticious.

I.e. slander or defamation would occur had he published a comment condemning the umbrella had it never broken or he had never bought it and the comments were directly aimed at damaging her business ventures on ebay. It's also up to her to prove that, if it were the case.

I'd tell the seller to suppositorise the umbrella next to his defamation suit.
 
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Randy Rhoads

Randy Rhoads

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She's full of it. It would cost way too much and there is no case anyway, he would win. Tell him to tell her the product sucked and she deserved the bad feedback.

Just out of interest, did she leave him bad feedback?
 
slip

slip

Beefcake...BEEFCAKE!!!
ps. People threaten the following all the time. Legal action, going to fair trading, or the media. 99% of the time they are full of shit, we used to give them the phone number for Fair Trading on the spot, they never saw it coming.
 
DJninja

DJninja

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In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation.

Just copied that from Wiki because I couldn't be bothered getting the actual definition from Austlii. Unless they can prove that you are lying, they don't really have a case. What a load of shit that someone would actual try an threaten you with a lawsuit because you were unhappy with their product. They should of given you a refund and saved all the hasle.
 
WolfCreekPsycho

WolfCreekPsycho

Likes Dirt
Yeah its not so much defamation, but the libel part that she would be following. I tend to believe its just all bluff, and even though we all know who is in the right, it would still cost time, money and energy to get a closure on this.

The seller clearly stated they have more umbrellas to sell and believe this would affect their ability to sell them, hence the basis for the claim of libel and this would be for what ever sum they deemed the damages to amount to.

The problem is its almost certainly bluff, but if hubby/son/bf/best friend/neighbour happens to be a small time solicitor, then it wont take much to file the case.

I ended up chatting to a friend of mine studied in law and he concurs.. for $150 is it worth the stress, effort and for some low income families they simply dont have the $$$ to contest a threat like this.

Meanwhile my friend has contacted Small claims to see about claiming against them for failure to honour the warranty... will see how that goes.

However the advice from the solicitor is to swallow the pride and let it go, unless your willing to spend some $$$.... which the solicitor will happily accept.
 
R

red death

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DJninja said:
Unless they can prove that you are lying, they don't really have a case. ...
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not quite, it has to be true & in the public interest. Is it true? Probably, (unless the storm has somehow affected the opening mechanism), is it in the public interest we all know about it, well I would have thought yes, the "public" who you are making the statement to are clearly those thinking of purchasing said product.

Tell 'em to go jump. If they do start proceedings they will invariably settle for you withdrawing the comments then with no costs pursued etc.

alternately you could modify the feedback to state simply that the opening mechansim failed within 24 hours following a storm. It's an umbrella. You're going to use it in a storm! I'm sure that'd be entirely safe to say.
 
T

TonyG

Likes Dirt
red death said:
not quite, it has to be true & in the public interest. Is it true? Probably, (unless the storm has somehow affected the opening mechanism), is it in the public interest we all know about it, well I would have thought yes, the "public" who you are making the statement to are clearly those thinking of purchasing said product.

Tell 'em to go jump. If they do start proceedings they will invariably settle for you withdrawing the comments then with no costs pursued etc.

alternately you could modify the feedback to state simply that the opening mechansim failed within 24 hours following a storm. It's an umbrella. You're going to use it in a storm! I'm sure that'd be entirely safe to say.
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I think he is referring to one of those big sun shade umbrella's, not a rain umbrella. I think if there is any risk that the storm or misuse may have effected the umbrella then she should withdraw it. Negative feedback like this to an Ebay seller could have disasterous effects on the sellers business. You would want to be pretty sure you were in the right before you did that.
 
WolfCreekPsycho

WolfCreekPsycho

Likes Dirt
red death said:
not quite, it has to be true & in the public interest. Is it true? Probably, (unless the storm has somehow affected the opening mechanism), is it in the public interest we all know about it, well I would have thought yes, the "public" who you are making the statement to are clearly those thinking of purchasing said product.

Tell 'em to go jump. If they do start proceedings they will invariably settle for you withdrawing the comments then with no costs pursued etc.

alternately you could modify the feedback to state simply that the opening mechansim failed within 24 hours following a storm. It's an umbrella. You're going to use it in a storm! I'm sure that'd be entirely safe to say.
Click to expand...
Yes its an outside Umbrella, not a hand held.

Absolutely right... feedback on ebay is public information. So technically she is within her rights to launch a case. The perfect defense for libel is truth, which is indeed the case here. She could leave the feedback there until she is presented with a summons etc and then withdraw it. However if the seller wanted to be a bitch she could then still claim her legal costs for her to get the case setup and the summons sent. At that stage I believe there is no recourse for the buyer in order to avoid paying those costs.

Im not sure if you can change feedback.. I think the only option available is to withdraw it... i may be wrong on this though, I have never had to do this.
 
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WolfCreekPsycho

WolfCreekPsycho

Likes Dirt
Fabric was fine, the umbrella had actually been let down in the storm... why was it mentioned at all ? Some people are just too honest and trusting for their own good sometimes :(
 
slip

slip

Beefcake...BEEFCAKE!!!
So the umbrella broke while left outside in a storm.

Have you told her to pull her head in yet?
 
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