making a Frame???
- Thread starter Nathan_S
- Start date
NH, that's very true, but do it for 10 or 20 years and you may understand what I'm talking about. Its easy to call a bloke a shit tradesman (and many are) but then they do something that blows your mind when you see it. People get streamlined and the basic skills you once had deteriorate from lack of use. More often used skills become freakishly good. I've seen boily's lance solid pins out of hydraulic cylinders without putting a single mark on the bushes, and others cut throught the bush and into the frame. You can't be good at everything, jack of all trades equals master of none.
Also technology changes, 10 years ago TAFE's didn't have a TIG so people had to learn on the job and some just never did.
Nathan, you TIG aluminium using a variable frequency AC Tig, and there's a whole myriad of adjustments you make including the amps, frequency, and the tungsten tips in the Tig torch for the different grades and thicknesses of the aluminium. I let the guru's set it up.
Also technology changes, 10 years ago TAFE's didn't have a TIG so people had to learn on the job and some just never did.
Nathan, you TIG aluminium using a variable frequency AC Tig, and there's a whole myriad of adjustments you make including the amps, frequency, and the tungsten tips in the Tig torch for the different grades and thicknesses of the aluminium. I let the guru's set it up.
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no you just need different filler wire to suit the grade, to weld ally with tig you need an AC HF machine though (very expensive), youll use electrodes with the white colour coding on (size of electrode and wire changes with thickness of metal) amps change for thickness of metal too, i wont go into much more detail because if youve never tig welded before you wont know what the hell each adjustment does
yeah i know what you mean im always bugging my supervisor for tig/stick jobs or anything steel, otherwise id only ever do ally mig
and that slag coming off doesnt mean youve got a good weld, it could be completely shit it just means youve got the right travel speed for the amperage your using so if youve got the right amperage and you get that youll have a good weld usually
yeah i know what you mean im always bugging my supervisor for tig/stick jobs or anything steel, otherwise id only ever do ally mig
and that slag coming off doesnt mean youve got a good weld, it could be completely shit it just means youve got the right travel speed for the amperage your using so if youve got the right amperage and you get that youll have a good weld usually
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just be very careful if you want to make an ally frame i really doubt a high school teacher will know what to do with ally, the line between good weld peno and blowing through is so minimal since it melts around 680 degrees yet needs to be welded hotter and quicker then steel due to its high conductivity, also stop starts need to be ground down because otherwise they will get longitudinal cracks/craters especially using tig
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I know this thread is a month or 2 old so dont get up me about it.
I built an 8.5" dh bike frame for my year 12 design tech project, it was my first frame that I ever built. My biggest advice is to think everything through alot and plan everything extremely well. I put in alot of hours each day to finish it since I had pretty much no idea what I was doing. It worked out well in the end, good marks and was very happy with how it turned out. I could have done alot better and with my experience now im going to be making frames alot better.
A shit load of research and trying to understand everything invloved is critical. try other mountain bike forums as well as there are other people out there making their own frames and you will be blown away by how good some are.
if you want any help with anything, including the folio then just let me know
Just make sure you truely know what you are getting into
I built an 8.5" dh bike frame for my year 12 design tech project, it was my first frame that I ever built. My biggest advice is to think everything through alot and plan everything extremely well. I put in alot of hours each day to finish it since I had pretty much no idea what I was doing. It worked out well in the end, good marks and was very happy with how it turned out. I could have done alot better and with my experience now im going to be making frames alot better.
A shit load of research and trying to understand everything invloved is critical. try other mountain bike forums as well as there are other people out there making their own frames and you will be blown away by how good some are.
if you want any help with anything, including the folio then just let me know
Just make sure you truely know what you are getting into
muvro
Likes Dirt
Geez, there's some interesting things been said.
I made a dually for my Yr 12 Major work in DT (design and Tech) many many moons ago. I was obsessed with riding at the time and had come up with s concept that was totaly unique and like nothing else on the market at the time. Come to think about it, I haven't seen anything like it ever.
It was a combination of carbon main frame and an Ally swing arm. The carbon frame had a very similar shape to the Old Trek Y frame.
I hated the literature side of things and I was a very last minute sort of person. I spent countless hours on my bedroom floor with a 1:1 scale drawing, with interchangable pieces of paper with different frame and swing arm designs. Finding the best arc of travel and front fork rake etc.
I eventually got the bike made in time, but limited funds restricted me from actually purchasing a rear shock.
There were a quite a few other hold backs with the frame manufacture.
-My extemely limited budget was the biggest factor.
-My extremely limited knowledge in carbon fibre and it's manufacturing process.
-My lack of mould making knowledge.
-Aluminium welding skills.
-Lack of machinery and tools to actually make the required parts.
That's just naming a few.
These problems resulted in the following,
-Budget, stopped me using the correct materials and components.
-I had to lay up the carbon instead of using pre-preg and vacuum moulding.
The bike ended up being quite heavy, but I did get it finished and it looked great.
The key to the major work I think is innovation.
Anyone can make a bike frame given the ability to actually construct the frame. But your real marks come from doing something that hasn't been done before. Or improving something quite considerably.
I believe if you want to get good marks for it, building a frame will be a massive ask. Not because of the construction aspect. Yeah, everyone is outlining the reasons why not to make the frame, and they have very valid points. But the point you need to think about is. Will is my design better than everything else on the market. Doing a HT is even worse. You have to make it rigid and light as hell, yet strong enough to handle massive abuse. Light and strong just don't go together. So, then look at dually's. There is alot more innovation possible due to the rear suspension. More options basicly.
What you want to do is choose a bike frame design. Then stare at the bastard. Look at it's geometry, find a weak point. Find soemthing on it that can be made better. What is a dually's biggest weak point (design wise)? What is it's strongest point (design wise)? Can they be improved? Can you improve it?
There is no point re-inventing the wheel.
DH1's advise is very good.
You will have to put the hours in.
Another guy in my class made a surfboard with a flexable tail section. The idea was to give better thrust out of turns or something. He did really well because of his innovation.
What ever you choose to do, best of luck with it. Make sure you put some pics up.
I made a dually for my Yr 12 Major work in DT (design and Tech) many many moons ago. I was obsessed with riding at the time and had come up with s concept that was totaly unique and like nothing else on the market at the time. Come to think about it, I haven't seen anything like it ever.
It was a combination of carbon main frame and an Ally swing arm. The carbon frame had a very similar shape to the Old Trek Y frame.
I hated the literature side of things and I was a very last minute sort of person. I spent countless hours on my bedroom floor with a 1:1 scale drawing, with interchangable pieces of paper with different frame and swing arm designs. Finding the best arc of travel and front fork rake etc.
I eventually got the bike made in time, but limited funds restricted me from actually purchasing a rear shock.
There were a quite a few other hold backs with the frame manufacture.
-My extemely limited budget was the biggest factor.
-My extremely limited knowledge in carbon fibre and it's manufacturing process.
-My lack of mould making knowledge.
-Aluminium welding skills.
-Lack of machinery and tools to actually make the required parts.
That's just naming a few.
These problems resulted in the following,
-Budget, stopped me using the correct materials and components.
-I had to lay up the carbon instead of using pre-preg and vacuum moulding.
The bike ended up being quite heavy, but I did get it finished and it looked great.
The key to the major work I think is innovation.
Anyone can make a bike frame given the ability to actually construct the frame. But your real marks come from doing something that hasn't been done before. Or improving something quite considerably.
I believe if you want to get good marks for it, building a frame will be a massive ask. Not because of the construction aspect. Yeah, everyone is outlining the reasons why not to make the frame, and they have very valid points. But the point you need to think about is. Will is my design better than everything else on the market. Doing a HT is even worse. You have to make it rigid and light as hell, yet strong enough to handle massive abuse. Light and strong just don't go together. So, then look at dually's. There is alot more innovation possible due to the rear suspension. More options basicly.
What you want to do is choose a bike frame design. Then stare at the bastard. Look at it's geometry, find a weak point. Find soemthing on it that can be made better. What is a dually's biggest weak point (design wise)? What is it's strongest point (design wise)? Can they be improved? Can you improve it?
There is no point re-inventing the wheel.
DH1's advise is very good.
You will have to put the hours in.
Another guy in my class made a surfboard with a flexable tail section. The idea was to give better thrust out of turns or something. He did really well because of his innovation.
What ever you choose to do, best of luck with it. Make sure you put some pics up.
I think the personal reason for a project like this is the most important point. If you want a 20 for the subject I would look for something a little less overwhelming. If you want to do it as you are passionate about it jump in – at least you will learn something…
If making a finished 6in susp frame is a bit daunting maybe taking a different approach could help.
How about making an experimental, simplistic prototype from plain old mild steel to test geometry and construction? Sure it would heavy but it could be constructed from the most basic of tools found in most tech rooms. Take into consideration most bicycle companies first produce a raw prototype to test the configuration of a concept - say a suspension design. Once that is nailed around the geometry the next prototype is usually to test viable construction methods.
Attacking the project like this will allow more time learning about what you are doing without the pressure of time, insuring the basis of the design is sound. You will soon learn if you want to take the time to make a finished product outside of school…
If making a finished 6in susp frame is a bit daunting maybe taking a different approach could help.
How about making an experimental, simplistic prototype from plain old mild steel to test geometry and construction? Sure it would heavy but it could be constructed from the most basic of tools found in most tech rooms. Take into consideration most bicycle companies first produce a raw prototype to test the configuration of a concept - say a suspension design. Once that is nailed around the geometry the next prototype is usually to test viable construction methods.
Attacking the project like this will allow more time learning about what you are doing without the pressure of time, insuring the basis of the design is sound. You will soon learn if you want to take the time to make a finished product outside of school…