Israel v. Hamas - Everyone's a winner!!

[FR Drew]

Hmm, Dilzy is right to a degree, there doesn't seem to be much of a "best of intentions" with the Israelis. More a "what suits us".

 

[RacelineBoy]

I still can't get over the mentality of some that think if you object to any facet of Israel, then you are anti-semitic and anti-zionist.

Racelineboy, have you even considered or accepted that Israel are no angels themselves and have participated in many brutal and deplorable acts?

Or are you that narrow minded?

MasterOfReality ~ My view of issue:
- During current war Israel had full right to do what it did (international law supports Israels actions), Hamas is a Terrorist organisation (they hate the west - ie. our wonderful country)
- Overall both Israeli's and Arabs are equally as bad. (this issue is complex and overall i hope everyone agrees with me on this statement)
- Should Israeli exist! YES!
- Should they forget the past and live in peace like the majority of Israeli and Israeli arabs (read wat i said before about arabs in israel) want? YES!
- Should Hamas be destroyed? YES!


Regarding the Fox news story as Johnny said please not discount it.

People making a correlation between the Israelis and Aboriginals need to take a look at the situation. These day's, we share our land with the Aboriginals, not only that, but re stolen gen and such, they really thought they were doing the right thing back then.

dilzy I really think you need to have a look about "this" situation. I dont consider myself an expert, however i have read into it a lot. I really think you should too, I respect FR Drew even tho I dont like his opinions as he has substance!

Please watch the link below(arabic TV - how much arab lives are worth?):
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kToarRlVIvQ

 

[Nerf Herder]

I'm personally very keen on the "but don't Israel have a right to defend themselves?" argument.

Scenario:

Your kid is playing soccer and trips another kid deliberately and they sprain their ankle...

Parent of kid gets one of his "bro's" to cover you with shotgun saying "just try to stop us motherfarker" while parent (also wielding shotgun) goes up and breaks your childs leg in 3 places...

But surely he's got a right to teach your kid that hurting people on the playing field isn't acceptable?...

I'm sorry but thats stupid ... I haven't read the entire thread so I'm sure there is even more stupid stuff in here ... but this one caught my eye.

They all need to watch Zohan

 

[dilzy]

Wrong: religion had nothing to do with WW1, WW2, Cold War, etc. etc. Major part of this situation has everything to do with power, land and not religion. Religion feeds many poor people, provides hope for many and limits the power of many greedy politicians.

WW1,2 and the cold war pale in comparison with the religious wars fought during the crusades.

Wrong: The US didn't give anyone any land. It was under a British mandate after WW2 and had been an idea alive since the early 1900s.., had nothing to do with the US in essence. Somebody else's land? Where exactly do the Jews come from? Another race? Pretty sure you'll find that they are all caucasiods, not negroids or Mongoloids. Race is not an issue whatsoever.

The US were a part of the nations that decided how the land was to be divided after WW2. They are also the ones who continue to support the enforcement of Israels position. Fare enough the British bombed the hell out of "those wogs" to "keep them in line", so yes the British are very responsible as well I suppose.

So, the Palestinians have a right to be their more so than the Jewish people, why? Because they were their first; so were the Jewish people and their ancestors. They have no right to be there because the Palestinians were there; you may want to look up the history of "Palestinians" and secondly, the Jews are there now, so under that logic no one can move them out simply based on the rationale that they are there now..., just like the Palestinians were 70 years ago.

Because the Jewish people weren't nearly all displaced to accommodate another nation. The Religious significance of Jerusalem to the Muslims predates any Jewish association. The Arab's had sophisticated cultures when the Jews were playing with sticks. The Israelis continuously blockade food and medical supplies to get their way. The UN does not approve of this. They all wanted everyones sympathy after WW2, now it's time they gave some out themselves.

What, you've missed all the suicide bombings, rocket/mortar attacks, kidnappings, stonings, etc.?

No, I also didn't miss the bulldozers driving through Gaza into peoples homes. The Israelis would be turning to suicide bombings ect if it wasn't for US foreign aid.

I was hoping that you'd go back over this thread and note the vast complexity of the issue, moralistic, strategic and historic.

But you didn't.

Most of this thread is just copy and paste from news articles. It may be complex, but after their entire race was persecuted in WW2, you'd think they'd have a little more give in them, but they don't.

 

[johnny]

Hmm, Dilzy is right to a degree, there doesn't seem to be much of a "best of intentions" with the Israelis. More a "what suits us".

That's the job of a government mate, what is best for their nation.

No one gives a fuck about right or wrong in the real world, dude. Israel could smash fuck out of Palestine, Syria, Libya and Iran and Lebanon within days as they did a few decades ago..., even more so now with nuclear weapons. Israeli government has one responsibility, protect the security and prosperity of Israel, not any other nation that is run by a bunch of deadset fucking failures.

To say that what they are doing is endangering their own security is to display a lack of knowledge concerning the balance of military power in the M/E. IMO they are damaging their security by NOT destroying the shitholes around them. Syria, Egypt and Libya are smart enough to have learned that there is no way that they will ever defeat Israel and have either formed diplomatic relations with them, are trying to negotiate peace treaties or have at least stopped their operations against them.


Wake up to the real world kids, this is Israel's game and they will win. The only reason why it is still going is because Palestine (namely Gaza at this point in time), Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. have had dumb shit backward governments that perpetuate this situation. If the Palestinians and the Arab/Persian community weren't so fucking useless they would have been able to come together and balance against Israel and stop its expansion. But they haven't because they are so caught up in their own stupid internecine and Shi'ite/Sunni bullshit battles.


Blame themselves for the situation they are in. When they pull their heads out of their arse and start living in the real world maybe they will be able to check ISrael, until then, the people can blame their own governments for their suffering.

Competent governments will always walk over incompetent governments. That's the way the world has always been and anyone who cries about right and wrong will always be on the losing side of the battle.


There, said it. Fuck Palestine, look at Hamas and the fucking idiots who bought this down upon them. Look to Iran for encouraging them and then double crossing them at the last minute in order to build up Hizbollah. Yeah, goodbye morality and hello real world, on the ground strategic interests.


Damn.

 

[dilzy]

MasterOfReality ~ My view of issue:
- During current war Israel had full right to do what it did (international law supports Israels actions), Hamas is a Terrorist organisation (they hate the west - ie. our wonderful country)
- Overall both Israeli's and Arabs are equally as bad. (this issue is complex and overall i hope everyone agrees with me on this statement)
- Should Israeli exist! YES!
- Should they forget the past and live in peace like the majority of Israeli and Israeli arabs (read wat i said before about arabs in israel) want? YES!
- Should Hamas be destroyed? YES!


Regarding the Fox news story as Johnny said please not discount it.



dilzy I really think you need to have a look about "this" situation. I dont consider myself an expert, however i have read into it a lot. I really think you should too, I respect FR Drew even tho I dont like his opinions as he has substance!

Please watch the link below(arabic TV - how much arab lives are worth?):

I did watch it. Interesting, I think your getting at is that because the Pali's don't values lives, that makes it ok for the Israelis to do away with them?

I think that's a little off. That's like saying it's okay for me to steal from someone who is rich but waste's a large amount of money. It doesn't mean anything to him, so it's okay to take it?

 

[RacelineBoy]

Please advise us from your trusted Zionist sources:

-How many Israelis have been killed in that 8 years,
-How many Israelis have had their homes destroyed in those 8 years,
-How many million dollars of Israeli infrastructure have been destroyed in those 8 years,
-How many Palestinian or Lebanese have been killed by Israel in those 8 years,
-How many Palestinian or Lebanese have had their homes missiled, tank shelled, bombed or bulldozed by Israel in those 8 years,
-How many millions of dollars in Palestinian or Lebanese infrastructure have been destroyed by Israel in those 8 years.

Once you have reliable figures, get back to me and i'll attempt to take you seriously.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the least suggesting that Hamas or Hezbollah are in the right, I back you al the way in saying that they're well and truly in the wrong, but lets get some perspective on who's doing what shall we?

Summary of Terrorist Attacks in Israel
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html

Now FR Drew I know there are more deaths on the Arab side and destruction of infrastructure. Look only 400 Israelis have died (not including terror attacks, these are just from rockets and wars), however each life is valuable, that means 400 families are missing a loved one. Why are these people provoking Israel then? They know that Israel will do something in reply. Why kidnap Israel soldiers just stupid. Israel is a developed country it has bomb shelters, each citizen has a gas mask and they have defense systems.

Why should Israeli's have to run in 15 seconds to find a bomb shelter when over 10 000 (absolute minimum number) rockets land on there cities?

Every Arab life is equal to an Israeli life! (dilzy) So why don’t you ask Hamas why they hiding behind women and children? Why are they provoking Israel! If Israel loses a war that mean bye bye Jewish homeland, whilst Arabs have 22 more states! Arabs can live in Israel equally as Jews live there. Why is there no peace? The world Israel on the land of Israel is never used in the Koran; it just says a mosque must be built in a far away land (that land could be Australia)!! Jews and Arab have equal right to the land and Hamas wants to “push the Jews into the sea.”

They all need to watch Zohan

LOL

Lastly I think johnny just finished the thread because what he said is absolute gold!


P.s sorry for some of my Zionist thoughts.

 

[johnny]

WW1,2 and the cold war pale in comparison with the religious wars fought during the crusades.

What?! Bullshit. Try around 75 million dead as a result of WW1+2, forgetting all the dead and suffering from the proxy wars fought throughout Asia, Latin America, the people killed, starved, tortured etc, throughout Eastern Europe and Central Asia...., etc. You're dreaming dude.

The US were a part of the nations that decided how the land was to be divided after WW2. They are also the ones who continue to support the enforcement of Israels position. Fare enough the British bombed the hell out of "those wogs" to "keep them in line", so yes the British are very responsible as well I suppose

. Ohh, dude! Look up the Balfour Agreement, the British Mandate for Palestine, David Ben-Gurion, Yitzak Ben-Zvi and the early Zionist party.

Because the Jewish people weren't nearly all displaced to accommodate another nation. The Religious significance of Jerusalem to the Muslims predates any Jewish association.

Um, pretty sure Judaism pre-dates both Christianity and Islam dude....

No, I also didn't miss the bulldozers driving through Gaza into peoples homes. The Israelis would be turning to suicide bombings ect if it wasn't for US foreign aid.

Any idea who attacked who first in the early 1900s in the region mate? Pretty sure no one can prove either way. This goes back further than what you are making out.

Most of this thread is just copy and paste from news articles. It may be complex, but after their entire race was persecuted in WW2, you'd think they'd have a little more give in them, but they don't.

I'd suggest that would make them more defensive and not ready to take shit anymore....




Sorry if I'm getting angry here, it's no you, FR Drew or the issue so don't take it personally. Just bad day, that's all.

 

[FR Drew]

Johhny, I respect you a whole lot and I'm the first to admit that Hamas, Hezbollah, hardline Iranians etc are a load of fuktards, but I'm sorry, Israel don't get to be bully boy and then wear a freaking halo plus play the poor us card. I'm over it.

Yes, the "overkill response" strategy might have got them through thus far, but that doesn't make it right, it just makes it a successful strategy.

what you're advocating is that everyone else in the middle east should take a "suck it up fellas, because Israel can smash you" policy.

When Saddam decided that a bit of Kuwait would suit him nicely, people said, no buddy, that ain't right, you can't do that shit.

For some reason, the same rules don't apply to Israel. Sure, the jewish faith as been hideously farked over, marginalised, scapegoated, exterminated, victimised for the last few hundred or thousand years and that's big time wrong, but kicking other people isn't an appropriate response.

There's a big wad of Palestinians and Israeis who want to live in peace, but the hardliners on both sides see a continuation of power to be had by perpetuating the stoush. It aint the Israeli population as a whole or the Palestinian population as a whole (or the lebanese) who deserve to have the fark shelled out of them, its the fuktards in the governments, military and armed wings.

I have zero, read that ZERO sympathy for Hamas, etc, but I do not accept that the over response from Israel is okay, appropriate, etc.

The situation is shit, but seriously, what option do people who oppose the Israeli status quo have open to them except "suck it up, sunshine"? Israel have thumbed their noses and proved time and time again that they don't give 1/8 of a rats arse about diplomacy, international treaties (including those relate to nukes). Harsh words aren't going to do anything.

Some bullyboy in an armored bulldozer puts a wall in the middle of your house, what are you going to do? where is the effective non violent option open to you?

Israel gets what they want through force and superior firepower with USA backing to boot. What about everyone else?

"I've got a really big gun" isn't a statement that makes you right, it's just a statement that makes your neighbors scared. Don't confuse the two.

 

[indica]

Has anyone seen this .... Flippin' Out.
It is about the ex-service Israelis going to India and trying to get over what their government has put them through.

 

[johnny]

Sorry for getting worked up, as I said, bad day and still working so have only scanned your post.

But, I once heard a man say that force shits on reason's back. The longer I work in this game the more I am coming to believe this. Sometimes the best strategic move is to accept your losses and make best with the cards you have. To do anything else is to invite disaster upon yourself. Doesn't mean things may not turn again in the future, but when you are losing and your current policies are a big part of the reason why, best to change them because the world aint going to have your back and you cannot rely on your opponents to play fair.

Will read your post later on tonight when done with work.

 

[indica]

Try and catch that doco Johnny, it is quite good really ... ask me if you can't find it.

 

[RacelineBoy]

FR Drew this is probably the first time I have agreed with you. But I think your older than me so you should know this better - "Life isnt far" !

Honestly every I believe every life losted is terrible, but Israel must continue to exist.
Below is something I copied from the net, it is accurate. Can I ask you what is more important than the progression of the human race through knowledge or the twats in Lebanon, Syria and Palestinian that want to destroy it?

Arabs vs. Jews

The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,800,000,000
ONE BILLION EIGHT HUNDRED MILLION
or 20% of the world's population.
They have received the following Nobel Prizes:
Literature:

1988 - Najib Mahfooz

Peace:

1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat: SHOULDN'T HAVE GOT IT!!
1990 - Elias James Corey
1999 - Ahmed Zewai
Economics: (zero)
Physics: (zero)

Medicine:
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad
TOTAL: 7 SEVEN
________________________________________________________________

The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000 FOURTEEN MILLION
or about 0.02% of the world's population.
They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:

1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:

1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
Physics:

1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:

1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:

1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis
TOTAL: 129 ONE HUNDRED TWENTY NINE!

The Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non-Muslims!
The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics or blow themselves up in German restaurants. There is not a single Jew that has destroyed a church. There is not a single Jew that protests by killing people.
The Jews don't traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.

Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems.
Muslims must ask "what can they do for humankind" before they demand that humankind respects them!!
Regardless of your feelings about the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians and Arab neighbours, even if you believe there is more culpability on Israel 's part, the following two sentences really say it all:

"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel" - BB. (Benjamin Netanyahu)


P.S This is not racist or anti-Islam in anyway. I respect all world religions and believe that Islam actually does more good in this world than bad.

 

[dilzy]

What?! Bullshit. Try around 75 million dead as a result of WW1+2, forgetting all the dead and suffering from the proxy wars fought throughout Asia, Latin America, the people killed, starved, tortured etc, throughout Eastern Europe and Central Asia...., etc. You're dreaming dude.

It did however only last for a few years, so the actual generational toll is huge, but % wise is small.

That number also includes things that weren't a direct result of war ie The russians killing about 10mill of their own, the holocaust ect.

. Ohh, dude! Look up the Balfour Agreement, the British Mandate for Palestine, David Ben-Gurion, Yitzak Ben-Zvi and the early Zionist party.

I didn't know about that. I notice that it says "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".

That's not exactly what is being done now, nor what is being supported by the US. I on principal blame the US for their continued military support regardless of moral action. I wonder how people would feel if the US was doing this directly (they are in effect)? Would peoples sympathy's be the same?

Um, pretty sure Judaism pre-dates both Christianity and Islam dude....

No it doesn't. If you take a collective civilization as a point of reference, Babylon (most famous Muslim city) was around 2300BC, the first Jewish civilizations were around 1200BC. Only if you take Biblical reference (which lets face it is full of more holes than a Thai hooker) does Judaism pre-date Muslim cultures.

EDIT. OK, after a little reading it appears I'm quite wrong about this. Judaism does infact pre-date Islam. By a long way. I was confusing Babylon with Islam when it was simply a Mesopotanian city. It seems my Roman history is a little fresher than my middle eastern.

Mod EDIT: You also appear to be slightly misguided about Thai hookers. As many a careless drunk tourist has found out, Thai hookers often have one hole LESS than the average streetchick

Any idea who attacked who first in the early 1900s in the region mate? Pretty sure no one can prove either way. This goes back further than what you are making out.

No I don't. But since there was no recognized Jewish nation then, I can't really say anything about it.

I'd suggest that would make them more defensive and not ready to take shit anymore....

Surely they must be able to see their active smothering of a region? This goes for both sides of the fence.

Sorry if I'm getting angry here, it's no you, FR Drew or the issue so don't take it personally. Just bad day, that's all.

Bad rice?

EDIT. I should note that I do not condone the way in which either side goes about it's business, but I can understand it. I can see that religious fanatasim in the case of the Pal. is damaging to their cause and to their respectability. I can also see that Israel has a way to come to be a nation capable of saying it respects human rights (they shelled with white phosphorus. My old man has told me all about this stuff and what he's seen it do and quite frankly it makes me sick.) It really gets me round the bender to see the rightous air of superiority the Israelis seem to have when they talk about the Palestinians.

Hamas have risen because of the peoples desires, though obviously using them as human shields was not part of the plan.

 

[RacelineBoy]

It did however only last for a few years, so the actual generational toll is huge, but % wise is small. That number also includes things that weren't a direct result of war ie The russians killing about 10mill of their own, the holocaust ect.

wanker! "russians killing about 10mill of their own" "holocaust" "75 million"

I didn't know about that. I notice that it says "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country". That's not exactly what is being done now, nor what is being supported by the US. I on principal blame the US for their continued military support regardless of moral action. I wonder how people would feel if the US was doing this directly (they are in effect)? Would peoples sympathy's be the same?

wanker - Arabs have equal right in Israel as any Jew. As seen by the roles they play on paliement, IDF, JNF and other areas of Israel culure (read what i said before in this thread).

No it doesn't. If you take a collective civilization as a point of reference, Babylon (most famous Muslim city) was around 2300BC, the first Jewish civilizations were around 1200BC. Only if you take Biblical reference (which lets face it is full of more holes than a Thai hooker) does Judaism pre-date Muslim cultures.

wanker - Judaism is the oldest monotheistic religion (1,800 B.C.E. and 1,400 B.C.E. is when the Torah was written) in the world, with Hinduism consider the only older religion. Islam started in 610 C.E. with the prophet Muhammad's revelation.

No I don't. But since there was no recognized Jewish nation then, I can't really say anything about it.

wanker - Before Israel was created both Jews and Arabs were fighting. As you may know Islam teachs that both Christians and Jews are Infidels, hence 1929 the Hebron massacre happened, 67 Jews in Hebron were murdered by Arabs. The rest of the Jewish community was evacuated by the British.

Surely they must be able to see their active smothering of a region? This goes for both sides of the fence.

wanker - they built the fence to stop sucide bombings to protect there citizens, which has worked.


I think you need to go back to school or finish school?

Yours truthfully
Racelineboy

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

wanker



wanker



wanker - Judaism is the oldest monotheistic religion (1,800 B.C.E. and 1,400 B.C.E. is when the Torah was written) in the world, with Hinduism consider the only older religion. Islam started in 610 C.E. with the prophet Muhammad's revelation.



wanker - the



wanker - they built the fence to stop sucide bombs to protect there citizens.


I think you need to go back to school or finish school?

Yours truthfully
Racelineboy

banned.

 

[dilzy]

wanker - Judaism is the oldest monotheistic religion (1,800 B.C.E. and 1,400 B.C.E. is when the Torah was written) in the world, with Hinduism consider the only older religion. Islam started in 610 C.E. with the prophet Muhammad's revelation.

I'll take that. After a little reading I'm wrong. I had some misconceptions about the history of Islam. Must have been wanking too much.

wanker - they built the fence to stop sucide bombs to protect there citizens.


I think you need to go back to school or finish school?

Yours truthfully
Racelineboy

"both sides of the fence" was a figure of speech. It has nothing to do with what your going on about.

I finished school a long time ago but regret that there was and isn't enough history taut in schools today. We got taut a lot about a supposed complex Aboriginal culture that wouldn't you know it was never written down because they couldn't write. Yeww. How educational.

If I had it my way, History would be a very big part of school. I never really had the time to study much of it. The most being Gibbins Decline and Fall.

Thank you for calling me a wanker. That no doubt really helps your cause.

 

[johnny]

J
Yes, the "overkill response" strategy might have got them through thus far, but that doesn't make it right, it just makes it a successful strategy.

and on the ground/in the end, that's all that actually matters.

what you're advocating is that everyone else in the middle east should take a "suck it up fellas, because Israel can smash you" policy.

What other choice do they have? No one is coming to save them, let alone themselves.

When Saddam decided that a bit of Kuwait would suit him nicely, people said, no buddy, that ain't right, you can't do that shit.

That's right, those with greater force, both political and military didn't want him to so they said no. It had nothing to do with right or wrong, it's all about who has the biggest guns and most influence.

For some reason, the same rules don't apply to Israel.

Yes they do, you're just confusing that the rules are about fair play and legality. They're not, unfortunately, they're about who is the biggest and baddest.

The situation is shit, but seriously, what option do people who oppose the Israeli status quo have open to them except "suck it up, sunshine"? Israel have thumbed their noses and proved time and time again that they don't give 1/8 of a rats arse about diplomacy, international treaties (including those relate to nukes). Harsh words aren't going to do anything.

That's right, the only thing that will make any difference is more influence or bigger guns. IT sucks but it's reality.

Israel gets what they want through force and superior firepower with USA backing to boot. What about everyone else?

Time to work out how to get what you want...., in other words, find a way to redistribute the balance of power in your favour.

"I've got a really big gun" isn't a statement that makes you right, it's just a statement that makes your neighbors scared. Don't confuse the two.

I'm not, at all. I'm saying that having a bigger gun makes you the winner.

 

[dilzy]

wanker - Before Israel was created both Jews and Arabs were fighting. As you may know Islam teachs that both Christians and Jews are Infidels, hence 1929 the Hebron massacre happened, 67 Jews in Hebron were murdered by Arabs. The rest of the Jewish community was evacuated by the British.

I just noticed this. That is just plain wrong. To Islam, the christians were never infidels like the Jews. They hold many places of common ground. They may have fought for many years in the crusades against one and other, but the bloodshed was not for hatred on the Muslims part.

 

[johnny]

POSM beat me to it. That was silly racelineboy.


Back for more later.