Hi Fi Junkies: Come out of the closet

MasterOfReality

After forever
Hmm,

I bought a system in 2000, but being a undergrad uni student meant I couldn't spend that much at the time. I got myself a Technics SC-EH790. It was the best component system I could find, short of going to Yamaha, Denon, Marantz etc.

At least its made in Japan!
 

deano-g

Squid
Back in the day I bought this rig

Harmon Kardon Amp/Receiver
Denon CD Player
Jamo Speakers

Model numbers have escaped me, it was 7-8 years ago, but middle of the road stuff.

Its since been augmented with a single 12" woofer.

My old man has a set of KEF drivers - 10", old school 6"x8" ovals, tweets and x-overs sitting in the top cupboard un-built from the late 70's. Last I looked the surrounds were still mint, and one day they will be built up in suitable enclosures.

Pitty its all back at home, whilst I listen through crap computer speakers in the rental apartment...
 

iconic

Likes Dirt
sorry to drag this thread up...

i built some coral beta 8 full range speakers earlier this year. these are vintage 70s drivers from japan. got them for $600 and spent a few more hundred for the wood and stuff. pity they have no bass :(

http://members.iinet.com.au/~jtb81/coral/

i'm using a nad 3020e amp to drive them and an onkyo se-90 pci soundcard. got a sony scd-c333es sacd player that i don't need now ;) thinking of getting a new amp (firstwatt f1) but just bought a new bike :D
 

cellardoor

Likes Dirt
As long as we are digging graves can we dig one for 5.1 and the horse it rode in on?

Im running a Rotel RA-820 amp, Rotel CD and JBL TXL speakers from the 70's. Best I can afford. (Turntable is so shit its not worth a mention)
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Yamaha AX 592
Yamaha CDX 765
Monitor Audio Silver 5i

Got this about 7 years ago and its still going strong.

Would like to get some silver 9s and get a Musical Fidelity home theater system or even get some second hand X-series components to replace the Yamaha components.
 

Binaural

Eats Squid
Hehehe, funny to see this thread come up again. I'm just about to get started buying parts for some loudspeakers I am designing at home (might post up some CAD drawings later). Going to be going amp shopping in the next week or so as well; anybody have any good amps to recommend for around 1K?
 

treggs

Treggs Tuned
Hehehe, funny to see this thread come up again. I'm just about to get started buying parts for some loudspeakers I am designing at home (might post up some CAD drawings later). Going to be going amp shopping in the next week or so as well; anybody have any good amps to recommend for around 1K?
I'm pretty happy with my pioneer vsx-d710s. A couple of years old now. Stick with any of the big boys (Yamaha, Denon, etc, etc) and you can't really go wrong. 1000 bucks for an amp is like spending 1500 on a hardtail... Can do the job and any extra is really bling or a small improvement ( I had to relate bikes in their somewhere :eek:)
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
alright, i know about this much >< about audio systems, but i would love if someone could explain some stuff to me.

a friend of mine's family is getting Bang and Olufsen AV stuff (i suspect stereo/home theatre etc) built into their new home, and apparently it is costing an absolute crapload (well, >$15000 seems like it to me as i know very little about audio systems). so what i wanted to know, is is it really worth it? i understand the quest for high sound quality etc, but is it that noticable, and worth as much as people appear to be paying?

now i am in no way saying that this is an unnecessary hobby/interest, as the same could easily be said for MTB, i am seriously interested in what notable differences (and thus advantages) there are in a $10000+ system compared to your $2500 Panasonic 5.1 system?
 

FR Drew

Not a custom title.
B&O have a great name and very stylish product. I suspect they also have some pretty funky home integration options available.

That said, well matched separates from some of the other brands for the same pricetag would probably yield better sound quality (but possibly not better aesthetics)

I've not had my finger to the pulse as far as retail hifi product much over the last 5 or so years so I can't make firm recommendations at to where the dollars might be better spent.

Very dependant upon what your priorities are.

Are they chasing seriously high decibels, tonal purity, broad frequency response, ultra fast dynamics, earth shaking bass, pace rhythm and timing (PRAT), perfect femal vocals, pin sharp imaging and stereo separation...

Are they looking at just CD,
CD and DVD,
CD,DVD, TV, MP3 and radio
just LP

Do they want bookshelf or tower or virtually invisible speakers...

Before you (or I) can make a call as to how people are spending their dollars and if it's a good allocation of the available resources, you really need a better idea of what it is they're trying to achieve.

For me, 5k would probably suffice for dvd player, 5.1 channels of speakers and a home theatre receiver that I'd be happy with and I'd allocate the other 10k to a single source turntable, good monitor speakers (bottom end response negotiable) and a good class A amp like a Sugden A21a. but that's me. Other folks have very different priorities.
 

FR Drew

Not a custom title.
As to what notable differences there may be between a 2500 dollar panasonic and 15k of something else, that's very dependant upon how well the person building up the system did their work.

Worst case, it may be far worse than the all in one 2500 dollar system.

From now on I'll talk about 2 channels only...

Stereo imaging: Good stero imaging isn't about sounds that come out of the left speaker and sounds that come out of the right speaker. With good imaging, if you sit in the sweet spot between the speakers you ought (with well recorded material) to be able to close your eyes and pretty much "see" exactly where everyone is in a continuous line from the left speaker across to the right.
I'll now get contentious and say that not only should you be able to get good left to right imaging, you should also get an impression of distance forward and backward. It shouldn't be like a cartoon projection of a band printed on the wall of the room, it should be like the back wall of the room has disappeared and there's a negative space filled with musicians.
Even more contentious is that with some recorded material you should get an impression of performers outside the area bounded by the left and right speakers, ie be able to localise musicians in a wider space than the speakers are apart. To really up the ante about what gets contentious, some folks say that they can get an impression of height from the 2 speakers. Personally, aside from tiny audible clues coming from floor reflections I fail to see how this can be possible but some folks swear it's do-able.

So that's imaging covered...

Bass response is pretty much self explanatory... how low will it go? That said, there's bass and there's bass. Some bass is low but it's slow ponderous, soggy wallowing stuff with very little definition to the notes, doesn't seem to keep time with the rest of the music and so on. Other bass is ultra tight and fast, keeps pace perfectly and almost feels like you're being thwacked with a club (but it often doesn't "seem" as low as the first sort) The second type is preferable but usually expensive to achieve.

I gotta make a move for bed, big day of research analysis tomorrow at work. Will try to add sections on tonal accuracy and PRAT tomorrow.

Drew
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
thanks drew, thats really given some insight into it all..

in reference to your first post, i was in no way questioning their motives (hell, i'd love some B&O stuff just for the wank factor, despite not really understanding it all yet), but rather trying to understand them, ie what benefits they are/were looking for (although as you've alluded to, it may be more complex than i first thought).

regardless, thanks a lot for the insight into the world of true AV equipment

edit: you also mentioned tonal accuracy, and as a musician i (think that i) understand the search for greater accuracy here, but i dont really get the PRAT stuff you speak of, so if you (or someone else) could give some insight into that, that'd be great!

good luck for work tomorrow, too
 
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FR Drew

Not a custom title.
The lecture continues...

AArrgghh! Insomnia I hate it!

PRAT is a tricky one to get a handle on.

Music/sound operates in three main areas, these being variable frequency (pitch) variable intensity (volume) and finally TIME.

If any of these three elements is missing or skewed (off key, lacking dynamics or out of synch) then things simply don't work that well.

PRAT as a HiFi attribute is all about timing.

Umm, how can I explain this...? There are heaps of drummers in the world, however if you've ever listened to, for example "60 Ways to Leave Your Lover" by Paul Simon, you may understand why there's only one Steve Gadd.
That said, on a system that doesn't have good PRAT, he may sound just the same as every other drummer.

With the right recording, a system that "times" well, should make it impossible for you not to be tapping your fingers or foot, bobbing your head along with the music, even wanting to get up out of your chair and do a shuffle around the room. Some people refer to this attribute as "boogie factor".

What gives a system good PRAT/boogie factor is tricky to pin down. Broadly speaking there will be less phase shift across the musical spectrum meaning that the leading edge of a sound be it high in frequency such as a snare or hi hat, or low in frequency like a kick drum or walking bass line arrive at the same time, rather than the bass stuff being slightly delayed. Additionally, the system will have less overhang, that is, once the signal ceases, sound levels should fall away quickly.

Beyond this, for some reason turntables seem to have better PRAT than CD/DVD/MP3 players, I might even go so far as to say that direct drive or idler drive tables (Technics SL1200, Garrard 401, Thorens TD125) have better PRAT than belt drive tables and that unipivot tonearms (in my limited experience) have better PRAT than bearing tonearms.

I have a close friend with a very well sorted Michell Orbe turntable and Rega 9 tonearm and I'd suggest that my crusty Technics SL120 with Decca International unipivot arm "times" better. You could probably buy his TT alone and the same money would net you a brand new Yeti 303 frame and a set of Boxxer World Cups.

Amps with better PRAT (huh, an amplifier can have timing???) seem to have less complex circuitry in the power supply, fewer gain stages and less (if any) global negative feedback. A two gain stage triode class A valve amp with a fast recovery power supply and zero global negative feedback with minimal capacitors in the signal path can be an amazing thing if you can tolerate the low efficiency and limited power output inherent in such a beast.

In all this, you must be aware that in audio, as with bikes, the law of diminishing returns for dollars spent kicks in wth a very big stick. Unless you are exceptionally lucky, you can pour tens of thousands of dollars into a system and reap little improvement, or you may go forward in one aspect at the expense of others.

(some early mono jazz recordings for instance, obviously have zero stereo imaging but clearly surpass the same era stereo pressings or any subsequent digital releases of the same recording for tonal accuracy, relaism and timing)

Ah well, I'm off to try and sleep again.

Drew
 

bazza

look at me
i have an epicly old techniches M6. the sound is suprisingly really good i have it hooked in through my computer via a bit of cabling adjustment. it goes mad loud. and has very decent bass for its age as well! pity the left hand side has gone. *big sads* its not even the fuse, which really sucks becuase that could of been replaced! so im just stuck with the delivery of both sides through the one channel. really sucky. but oh well. better than spending 150 bucks on average 5.1 computer speakers.
 

chie

Likes Dirt
A few weekends ago I built these as a bit of an experiment, mate found the plans:

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/recom_enclose/103e_encl.pdf

I had some speakers lying around from a build kit I got about 5yrs ago. 4inch and a tweeter are in them, the bass response is crazy for the speaker, which was in a small ported box before. The tweeter in them isn't too great but it'll do for the money I'll have spent on them, plus my parents will probably end up keeping them. They aren't completely finished, will probably just go a gloss black or something simple.

I would love to have the money to get some good full ranges in the same/similar box. FR Drew you had some fostex's didn't you? I need to go back and read thread Is this a similar design to what you had you full ranges in?
 

FR Drew

Not a custom title.
Yup, I've got a pair of FE168 Sigma's (now discontinued).

Tried em in a backloaded horn but had lots of resonance problems. Current plan is to put them in a tapered quarter wave tower. Should give me output down to 40 Hz which is low enough for all the music I'm likely to want to play with them.
 
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