Helmet laws again - looks like there's now a legal precedent

[Delmar]

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/wellbeing/head-case-20100915-15cs8.html

Read the whole article, but these two quotes are the sort of points that should take us (the amatuers) past saying things like 'if you fall off youre better off with a helmet therefore it should be law', and, 'its common sense'. It's just not that simple, and much of the world agrees its not that simple...

'Sedentary Australia continues to lie around as the helmet debate rages. John Pucher, a professor who studies transport at Rutgers University in New Jersey, tells the Herald that for an individual, wearing a helmet is "clearly safer", but on a population level, helmet laws discourage about 30 per cent of people from cycling, thus "the increased health benefits of those who continue cycling are far offset by the reduced health benefits to those who do not cycle at all".'

and

'Pucher says helmet laws have discouraged people from using city bike sharing programs in Vancouver, Brisbane and Melbourne. Almost no one wears helmets in the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Belgium and Sweden, yet those countries have the "safest cycling in the world in terms of fatalities and injuries per kilometre cycled", he argues, though the issues are admittedly "complex and controversial".'

 

[gixer7]

^^ Delmar beat me to it!

 

[MasterOfReality]

Just read this thread and Arete is on the money here.

 

[dunndog]

So are the people of Holland immune from accident? Or is it an entire country lacking in common sense?

Or possibly it is your opinion that is biased by the status quo of our laws?

~15million dutch vs dunndog

Whats more likely?

OK well obviously i'm arguing a different point. I've never said i'm against choice. i said it's a bit silly to infer you're equally as safe with or without a helmet, because obviously you're not. I'm definately not biased because of the status quo of our laws, I just can't understand, choice or not, how anyone could feel or be as safe without a helmet as with one, quite simple really. choose, go for it.
And I think the common comparisons with these European nations are not entirely reflective of the attitude to cyclists from drivers in particular. Look at all the rants on here about cyclists copping unprovoked abuse and much worse from motorists, what are the comparitive rates of these occurences in Holland, germany etc. I wonder?

 

[patto_15]

I just re-raise the point of; Who here wears helmets for the fear of being fined apposed to wearing it because you want to?

If you agree to wearing it because you want to, having these laws repealed will not matter to you what so ever, as you'll continue to wear it.

I think it shouldn't be law to wear a helmet, I ride to the skate park without it, on footpaths, i have no brakes on my bike, no reflectors or anything and often ride home after dark. Once i get the park i put my helmet on..

In the action of riding to and from the skate park, i can get fined for riding on a footpath, riding with out a helmet, riding with out proper lights at night and i think i can be fined for not having proper working brakes too! Stupid laws =/

Just ride your bike, i ride all the time with out my helmet (helmet hangs from my bag), i 95% of the time ride on the footpath as i don't want to ride on the road, helmet or not, i aint riding on the road, unless there isn't any cars or the traffic is pretty much at a stand still. I know there is a chance of getting fined, but i don't really care.

If i was on a road bike, commuting, i would wear a helmet as i would be on the road with the cars and chances of a fall much higher.

What i'm trying to portray is, you wear what is best for the situation. Riding at jogging pace down a foot path, opposed to blasting backies at the trails or blazing runs on the dh bike, or darting between cars on the road.


*probably doesn't make any sense what so ever... oh well.. haha

 

[c3024446]

http://www.news.com.au/national/bid-to-axe-cycle-helmet-law-riles-state/story-e6frfkvr-1226183149319

It's in the news again. Most of the comments made on this article confirm why i avoid news.com.au. Just get rid of the law and adults make their own decisions.

I have absolutely no idea why smoking - a practice known to produce cancer and put a strain on the health care system is legal, while to ride without a helmet on a bicycle is illegal. Oh I remember, the Govt gets tax from the Ciggies!

 

[Shredden]

"Sounds like a great idea. While we are at it, i dont really want to wear a seat belt (coz i hardly ever crash, and they are hot and sweaty to wear), get rid of my air bag (think how this unnecessary luxury is artificially inflating the price of new cars), take the inflatable slides off aircrafts (how often have you used one, qantas are making a killing charging us to have them installed), chuck all life vests off the boats (i've never had to use one, plus we could fit more paying passengers on) - hell, even take away pedestrian crossings (massive waste of white paint, plus i'm over 18, and dont need to be told where to cross a road). This guys is a knob of the highest order. You dont wear a helmet because you crash all the time. You wear it for the one in a million chance that today your head will hit something harder than it. He obviously does not know someone who has suffered brain damage from a simple riding accident, nor a family who has had to care for that person for the rest of their lives. I could go on, but i'm off to take the roof off my house - damn big brother cant tell me how to live"

Winning.

 

[c3024446]

Shredden, i think you need to make it more clear that the above is not your opinion, but one from news.com.au.

 

[Jim Junkie]

"Sounds like a great idea. While we are at it, i dont really want to wear a seat belt (coz i hardly ever crash, and they are hot and sweaty to wear), get rid of my air bag (think how this unnecessary luxury is artificially inflating the price of new cars), take the inflatable slides off aircrafts (how often have you used one, qantas are making a killing charging us to have them installed), chuck all life vests off the boats (i've never had to use one, plus we could fit more paying passengers on) - hell, even take away pedestrian crossings (massive waste of white paint, plus i'm over 18, and dont need to be told where to cross a road). This guys is a knob of the highest order. You dont wear a helmet because you crash all the time. You wear it for the one in a million chance that today your head will hit something harder than it. He obviously does not know someone who has suffered brain damage from a simple riding accident, nor a family who has had to care for that person for the rest of their lives. I could go on, but i'm off to take the roof off my house - damn big brother cant tell me how to live"

Winning.

Not really...

Most of those examples this rant uses are in fact choices anyway. You don't have to use the slide on the plane if you don't want to, or the life vest, blah blah blah. The safety option is available however, if you wish to use it.

Not to mention that they are also about a company providing a service and undertaking a duty of care. But that's beside the point.

And if you want to go down the airbag path, well why not make helmets mandatory for drivers too? Surely that would reduce head injuries in cars? It works for race car drivers?

Personally, I will always wear a helmet when riding my commute or mt biking, I just don't feel safe without it. I would like the option to not wear it for a putt around the park without the threat of a $50 fine though.

Another thing though - someone mentioned earlier that animosity towards riders is more severe in Aus than the example of Holland used. I'd agree with this, but the question is why? Obviously cycling hasn't made the inroads in Australia that is has overseas. And probably partly due to the helmet laws, only the determined (or enthusiasts) cycle. It goes hand in hand that these people are the more opinionated on the sport, something which is likely to cause more arugments (such as this one ).

Additionally, less cyclists means the sport/method of transport is less common and less accepted as a part of everyday life. So when a bike gets in the way of a car, the response in anger "Why are bloody bikes allowed on the road!", rather than the usual road rage directed at other cars - more directed at the person, not method of transport.

I would love to see cycling become more common place in Australia. I think this would also have the added bonus of more bikeways being built, and therefore less bikes on the road - a better enviroment for everyone. I also think that repealing helmet LAWS (not the use of helmets altogether), would aid in this.

 

[cleeshoy]

Just ride your bike, i ride all the time with out my helmet (helmet hangs from my bag), i 95% of the time ride on the footpath as i don't want to ride on the road, helmet or not, i aint riding on the road, unless there isn't any cars or the traffic is pretty much at a stand still. I know there is a chance of getting fined, but i don't really care.

This might sound like a dumb question, but I have to ask - Given you already have your helmet with you, why not just wear it on your head to the park as well? I imagine your bag isn't going to need protection. I don't understand those people who have a helmet but choose not to wear it, but instead hang it off their handlebars or bag whilst riding.

 

[hiredassassin]

This might sound like a dumb question, but I have to ask - Given you already have your helmet with you, why not just wear it on your head to the park as well? I imagine your bag isn't going to need protection. I don't understand those people who have a helmet but choose not to wear it, but instead hang it off their handlebars or bag whilst riding.

beat me to it.

I find it really infuriating when you see people cruising through traffic with their helmet on their handlebars. Why not just wear the damned thing!?

 

[wespelarno]

beat me to it.

I find it really infuriating when you see people cruising through traffic with their helmet on their handlebars. Why not just wear the damned thing!?

Good to see I'm not the only one thinking the same thing. If you have it, why not wear it? Or people who have it on their head, without the straps done up. Seems to be a really strange choice to make.

The only time I don't have a helmet on is riding my DH bike UP firetrails on the way to the top of a run. But around roads or footpaths or uni I always wear it. Not because I'm likely to crash, but because some idiot is likely to do something very unpredictable. Couple days back I was riding on the footpath at ANU and someone driving on the road pulled onto the footpath to stop right infront of me. I managed to get round the car, then the passenger opened the door. Which left me fucked.

 

[Robbiejuve]

I think it shouldn't be law to wear a helmet, I ride to the skate park without it, on footpaths, i have no brakes on my bike, no reflectors or anything and often ride home after dark. Once i get the park i put my helmet on..

*probably doesn't make any sense what so ever... oh well.. haha

Riding on the footpath you still need to cross roads so a car approaching a side street doesnt see your tail light in the dark, you are also not on the road so you are less visible turns left/right and takes you out. For a $10 tail light was it worth a trip to the hospital or worse? Was it worth putting your injury or death over the head of an innocent driver? Do you have the cash when his insurance company calls?

How about if you take out a pedestrian riding on the footpath without brakes, you have the cash ready when their insurance company sends you the bill or the pedestrians sues you?

Staying alive, healthy and not hurting others > being cool.

 

[frenchman]

Good to see I'm not the only one thinking the same thing. If you have it, why not wear it? Or people who have it on their head, without the straps done up. Seems to be a really strange choice to make.

The only time I don't have a helmet on is riding my DH bike UP firetrails on the way to the top of a run. But around roads or footpaths or uni I always wear it. Not because I'm likely to crash, but because some idiot is likely to do something very unpredictable.

Do you wear it when you're driving to go riding somewhere? Your gear is in the car so you may as well don the TLD.

 

[cleeshoy]

In the action of riding to and from the skate park, i can get fined for riding on a footpath, riding with out a helmet, riding with out proper lights at night and i think i can be fined for not having proper working brakes too! Stupid laws =/

Personally, I couldn't give a sh1t if you fell off your bike and without a helmet and hurt yourself. It would probably improve the gene pool.

However your actions (riding on the footpath, no lights, etc) puts others at risk - what if you ran into a little kid who was playing on the footpath? Would you have the guts to front up to the parents of that little kid explaining your dumb ass actions were the sole reason for the accident? Didn't think so.....

*Something completely irrelevant and off-topic. And apart from anything else, untrue*

 

[taitt]

Holland is 51 times smaller than Queensland. Helmet laws have nothing to do with it.

 

[dcrofty]

I'd be fine with people making their own choices to do risky stuff without any form of protection as long as they pay their own treatment completely out of their pockets should something happen. No helmet no medicare.
Please don't flame me too bad

 

[frensham]

I'd be fine with people making their own choices to do risky stuff without any form of protection as long as they pay their own treatment completely out of their pockets should something happen. No helmet no medicare.

Totally agree. But if we go down this path then we also make smokers, alcoholics, druggies, the obese etc do the same thing.

 

[David56543]

LOL helmet laws? fuck helments.. unless im going to do some stunts or major downhill or something serious i dont wear helmets cause i know i wont fall off anyway most of the time im not doing anything dangerous

p.s drunk so sue me for typos

 

[dcrofty]

Totally agree. But if we go down this path then we also make smokers, alcoholics, druggies, the obese etc do the same thing.

I know I know, its a slippery path. I'm not even completely sure how I feel about it all, one day this one day that.

The govt does attempt to recover the costs of some things like smoking treatments through things like taxes so I'm cool with that. I also understand the reasons for some of the laws that some would call 'nanny state' and understand that whilst they seem oppressive when looked at by an individual are aimed at influencing behaviour of millions of people.