Get the girls with our special weight-loss dieting techniques

[Mywifesirrational]

sounds awesome - i hate when people say you can't do both at the same time.

Well, you going to partially hate this.

You can't effectively do both unless you are way out of shape (excessively fat and not enough muscle mass), general exercise initially will result in weight loss and muscle gain, but this will plateau quickly.

One is much better doing a hypertrophy/strength based program then moving onto weight loss. So the too goals are separated by periodisation.

Simply put to create muscle mass you need around 500 calorie surplus per day, to lose weight (adipose) you need a calorie deficit, strangely enough around 500 a day is good.

 

[Steve-0]

Yeh I don't believe you can do both to any great length but small changes do work. "Recomposition" as some call it.

I am bigger, stronger and leaner then ever before, gaining in each area at the same time, but I'm coming from a slump of laziness and not "adding on" to my previous personal bests. So it's more of a return to form then anything.

Still feels awesome to apply the knowledge I've gained and seeing the results I was after.

--I was gaining muscle like 3-4times faster in a proper bulk then now.

 

[Morgan123]

Name: Morgan
Date: 12/8/12
Age: 20
Start Weight: 85
Goal Weight: 75, maybe even 70.

Alright guys I'm hoping to get back on this train after over a year and a half of eating shit not going to the gym at all. Hopefully I'll be getting a membership soon as I can never make myself run/cycle outside in winter, that combined with being a chippy should have me working pretty hard. Not too fussed about putting on much muscle as I'm happy with what I've got at the moment and if I do a decent cut hopefully me seeing the results will give me all the motivation I need to keep going.

The biggest challenge I have at the moment is diet. The average day lately has been;
Breakfast: Never been a breaky person, usually wake up five mins before I leave so only have time to grab and eat in the car. Ie Nothing, Muesli bars + Bannanas or Maccas.
Lunch: Almost always take away and easily the worst meal of that day. Looking for some ideas with this. Usually Maccas, KFC or Red Rooster. Try to find a subway but not always an option and I absolutely hate sandwiches. Been thinking I might buy a chicken and some rolls and just eat that for lunches.
Dinner: Usually pretty good.

So got a few questions
1. What do you guys usually do for breakfast + lunch with limited cooking facilities and limited time.
2. What's a decent cut workout? Im thinking just as much cardio as possible, mix it up with cycling, running, boxing, rowing. But what else? Should I throw in some weights, pull ups etc?
3. I don't know whether it's because of my job but I'm always pretty hungry. Could it be my body is just used to eating too much too often? I read a few pages ago about fasting, should I just try ignore the hunger or should I eat?

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Name: Morgan
Date: 12/8/12
Age: 20
Start Weight:
Goal Weight:

Alright guys I'm hoping to get back on this train after over a year and a half of eating shit not going to the gym at all. Hopefully I'll be getting a membership soon as I can never make myself run/cycle outside in winter, that combined with being a chippy should have me working pretty hard. Not too fussed about putting on much muscle as I'm happy with what I've got at the moment and if I do a decent cut hopefully me seeing the results will give me all the motivation I need to keep going.

The biggest challenge I have at the moment is diet. The average day lately has been;
Breakfast: Never been a breaky person, usually wake up five mins before I leave so only have time to grab and eat in the car. Ie Nothing, Muesli bars + Bannanas or Maccas.
Lunch: Almost always take away and easily the worst meal of that day. Looking for some ideas with this. Usually Maccas, KFC or Red Rooster. Try to find a subway but not always an option and I absolutely hate sandwiches. Been thinking I might buy a chicken and some rolls and just eat that for lunches.
Dinner: Usually pretty good.

So got a few questions
1. What do you guys usually do for breakfast + lunch with limited cooking facilities and limited time.
2. What's a decent cut workout? Im thinking just as much cardio as possible, mix it up with cycling, running, boxing, rowing. But what else? Should I throw in some weights, pull ups etc?
3. I don't know whether it's because of my job but I'm always pretty hungry. Could it be my body is just used to eating too much too often? I read a few pages ago about fasting, should I just try ignore the hunger or should I eat?

You didn't put your start or goal weight in.

(1) Make the time, get up 5-10 minutes earlier, when I do that and have some porridge, steak and fruit, I eat better all day and tend to snack a lot less. For lunch, I find if I go the supermarket on a sunday night a buy 5 cans of salmon or a BBQ chicken or two, then get the mrs to buy some fresh rolls each night, I'll happily eat salmon/chicken rolls for lunch each day. Also, it saves a crap of money as I can easily spend $15+ on lunch each day otherwise. I find I can't do this unless I get some 'social' support, such as hard habit to break.

(2) Pretty much, do as much aerobic activity as possible, but it is very time consuming. Nothing wrong with resistance training for weight loss (ignoring muscle mass here) in 1 hour of a hard resistance exercise, you'll burn more energy than any other activity. If you going to include some resistance go for those large muscle mass compound exercises like you have listed - squats, lunges, pushups, pullups.... isolating exercises are good for the beach, but a waste of time for performance and weight loss.

(3) Being a chippie is a fairly hard labour job, it'll make you hungry and you do need to eat well to maintain a good working fitness. You'll find if you eat too little you'll start to feel pretty flat, fatigued and at worst get sick. So if you are looking to loose some weight, don't eat less, eat better. Keep the portions at a good level, but remove process sugars, salt and excessive fat when possible (it's in everything). avoid fast food (obviously), it's really hard to do because you have to essentially change your lifestyle.

There is some good evidence to show that people do get addicted to calories, so when you cut back a little you will feel excessively hungry, when you shouldn't. If you can last a week or two this should pass - as long as you are not actually eating too little for you mass and work requirements.

 

[Morgan123]

You didn't put your start or goal weight in.
Yeh fixed that up

(1) Make the time, get up 5-10 minutes earlier, when I do that and have some porridge, steak and fruit, I eat better all day and tend to snack a lot less. For lunch, I find if I go the supermarket on a sunday night a buy 5 cans of salmon or a BBQ chicken or two, then get the mrs to buy some fresh rolls each night, I'll happily eat salmon/chicken rolls for lunch each day. Also, it saves a crap of money as I can easily spend $15+ on lunch each day otherwise. I find I can't do this unless I get some 'social' support, such as hard habit to break.
Yeh its even harder when the people i work with get maccas/kfc everyday, but the end result is a decent amount of money saved. Steak and porridge? Is a bowl of cereal good enough these days?

(2) Pretty much, do as much aerobic activity as possible, but it is very time consuming. Nothing wrong with resistance training for weight loss (ignoring muscle mass here) in 1 hour of a hard resistance exercise, you'll burn more energy than any other activity. If you going to include some resistance go for those large muscle mass compound exercises like you have listed - squats, lunges, pushups, pullups.... isolating exercises are good for the beach, but a waste of time for performance and weight loss.
Ah good, like having weights to change it up. Only problem with squates/lunges/deadlifts is I have no idea on good form? I might have to do a training session with one of the guys that work there or is there somewhere decent I can read/watch people doing them?

(3) Being a chippie is a fairly hard labour job, it'll make you hungry and you do need to eat well to maintain a good working fitness. You'll find if you eat too little you'll start to feel pretty flat, fatigued and at worst get sick. So if you are looking to loose some weight, don't eat less, eat better. Keep the portions at a good level, but remove process sugars, salt and excessive fat when possible (it's in everything). avoid fast food (obviously), it's really hard to do because you have to essentially change your lifestyle.
Extremely hard to do, haven't had take away since late last week and going from having it everyday to zip has had me craving it like mad. Hopefully it'll start going away.

There is some good evidence to show that people do get addicted to calories, so when you cut back a little you will feel excessively hungry, when you shouldn't. If you can last a week or two this should pass - as long as you are not actually eating too little for you mass and work requirements.

I've been cutting back on the food intake and have been feeling a bit tired lately but thought i'd try go a week and hopefully that'll give me a better idea.

 

[NCR600]

Right, it's been a little while since I've been active in this thread, or indeed the gym due to a combo of a full on work schedule, lower back issues and a nasty bout of tendonitis in the left elbow I think is due to doing full ROM narrow grip chins.

I'm really suffering from a severe lack of motivation to go back to the gym and need some sort of plan to get back to where I was at the start of the year. I've put on a ton of fat and lost a lot of muscle. I was surfing a bit last year, but I'm struggling to pop up on the board since the back injury, so I need to do some core strength work to assist with this before I join my old goat mates and buy an SUP board.

I'm old and have screwed knees from rugby, so running is not part of the plan, but I do intend to do 30 minutes on the x trainer and some sprints on the treadmill each day. I was benching 125kg 5x5 and deadlifting 180 5x1 at the start of the year. I don't necessarily want to go back to a strength training program straight away, but would like to do something to control my ballooning fatness that is relatively interesting to help with motivation. I've got an option to attend some bullshit girl boxing (boxercise) classes and/or fitball and circuit classes at the corporate gym, but those are a bit shit and don't wish to be tied to specific times to get there. Don't mind doing some solo bag work though.

Can anyone point me in the right direction of some interesting workouts to suit an old, fat, strong bloke with stuffed knees and back?

Oh yeah, I've been seeing a physio about the back when I can afford it. The exercises they give me, are not exercise if you know what I mean. I need to do more.

 

[clockworked]

Spearfishing and snorkelling NCR. It gives you something to do when you're not surfing and its super low impact.

i have absolutely no proof it is good for weightloss, but i'm SO tired and hungry after diving for a few hours. Similar fatigue levels to a game of rugby, but with zero muscle pain

 

[Ryan H]

How long should I be in the gym for?

Ive started working out like 10-11 weeks ago, Im heaps skinny and pretty much go to build muscle. Anyway I find that Im only going there for around 30-40 mins at a time. I mean I know im not doing anything wrong (I dont think) and that im doing proper amounts of sets/reps (with around 45-50 second rests between sets), but its just feels that im not there for very long.
Just to let you know what im doing, heres an example, I today I did shouders and abs and did:
4 x 8 shoulder press
4 x 10 upright row
3 x 10 front barbell raise
4 x dumbell lateral raise
2 sets to failure crunches
2 sets to failure lying leg raises
2 sets to failure bicycle crunches

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Ive started working out like 10-11 weeks ago, Im heaps skinny and pretty much go to build muscle. Anyway I find that Im only going there for around 30-40 mins at a time. I mean I know im not doing anything wrong (I dont think) and that im doing proper amounts of sets/reps (with around 45-50 second rests between sets), but its just feels that im not there for very long.
Just to let you know what im doing, heres an example, I today I did shouders and abs and did:
4 x 8 shoulder press
4 x 10 upright row
3 x 10 front barbell raise
4 x dumbell lateral raise
2 sets to failure crunches
2 sets to failure lying leg raises
2 sets to failure bicycle crunches

45 minutes sounds pretty good to me. You can go longer, but quality suffers due to central fatigue.

What does the rest of your program look like?

Your hitting your shoulders with an awful lot of volume - might be OK if your very well trained and on the gear, otherwise the intensity will be to low to result in meaning hypertrophy.

Also take into account any type of bench will heavily use anterior delt, if its completely flogged from this, bench aint going to improve (presuming you doing a 3 way split).

 

[Ryan H]

45 minutes sounds pretty good to me. You can go longer, but quality suffers due to central fatigue.

What does the rest of your program look like?

Your hitting your shoulders with an awful lot of volume - might be OK if your very well trained and on the gear, otherwise the intensity will be to low to result in meaning hypertrophy.

Hey MWI,
This is the routine workout I started with, but ive changed it around quite a bit because Ive heard that you should change routines every 6 or so weeks or your muscles get to used to the same routine and results start to plateau (sorry i dont know the technichal terminology).
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/dougs-mass-building-routine-for-ectomorphs.html

So yeah, even when i started with the above link i was only going for around 30-40 mins at a time (its a small gym and I rarely have to wait around).

Also take into account any type of bench will heavily use anterior delt, if its completely flogged from this, bench aint going to improve (presuming you doing a 3 way split)

Sorry Im not really sure what you mean by this.

 

[cha_cha_]

Hey MWI,
because Ive heard that you should change routines every 6 or so weeks or your muscles get to used to the same routine and results start to plateau

do tell...

 

[NCR600]

Spearfishing and snorkelling NCR. It gives you something to do when you're not surfing and its super low impact.

i have absolutely no proof it is good for weightloss, but i'm SO tired and hungry after diving for a few hours. Similar fatigue levels to a game of rugby, but with zero muscle pain

Funny you should say this. I live quite close to a spot on the Northern Beaches that is popular with spearfishermen. The missus has been threatening to buy some snorkelling gear so she can poke around when I'm surfing, but I've been thinking about doing some snorkelling and spearfishing myself. I absolutely loathe swimming for swimming's sake (reminds me of 5am outdoor pool training sessions when I was a kid), but I'm cool with swimming for a good reason.

 

[Mattydv]

Got my own question. My bench is suffering, sticking point down low. Requires lat development, yes?

Also take into account any type of bench will heavily use anterior delt, if its completely flogged from this, bench aint going to improve (presuming you doing a 3 way split).

He means (simply) your bench press weight isn't going to improve because your muscles are too tired from other exercises.

 

[Ryan H]

do tell...

Haha, well Ive looked around on various websites and forums and people say that you just change your routine every 6 or so weeks otherwise (please dont quote me on this, this is just what ive read) your muscles become to 'used to' the workout and dont keep developing

fuck, im tired and im writing at a 6th grade level.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/dougs-mass-building-routine-for-ectomorphs.html

Not too sure who this Doug character is, but to me it appears he is a bit clueless (I would say a complete F&^*WIT but that might come across a bit strong).

Ignore this program completely, it is completely flawed in every aspect. This is the type of program that we use as an example of what not to do. Unfortuentely the internet is full of this type of thing, that wastes peoples time and effort.

I'll keep this a little short or I'll be here all night.

The volume for each major muscle group is ridiculous. Who ever designed this does not understand the overlap of muscle groups in different exercises. Chest has 3 exercises, 2 of which use triceps quite heavily. Then the day after you have flogged both triceps and pecs, but you flog the same muscle groups again with a tricep workout, which of 3 exercises, 2 are highly dependant on your chest muscles. So in effect, you are training the same muscle groups on concurrent days, which the second sessions offers nothing and limits improvements from the first day.

EDIT I think i read the program wrong, chest and tri's were on the same day. Although the following day does work the same major muscle groups nether the less. Also, 1 week between sessions, ie legs, is more of a maintenance time frame, want to train muscle 3-4 days apart.

After you exercise a muscle, remembering that compound movements use many muscle groups, you need to rest that muscle to let it recover and grow. Muscles grow because you stimulate them into create mRNA that is the blueprint for developing bigger stronger muscles, this peaks around 48 hours. If you train the same muscle group before 48 hours, you depress mRNA and the muscle does not get bigger.

Any exercise rep range of 'to failure' is poor programing (depending on the circumstance), unless it is low reps. if you can do 20-30 reps of something before you fail, the load is way to light.

As far as needed to change exercises regularly, sometimes called blitzing or shocking the system, there is no need to do this, evidence actually suggests this will limit for overall improvements in a long period of time vs using the same exercises. Olympic lifters and power lifters NEVER change exercises, they are impressively strong and large humans.

There is a lot more wrong here, its like its designed to be impressively complex, but fails in every major way.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Got my own question. My bench is suffering, sticking point down low. Requires lat development, yes?

Maybe, when I lift maximally I tend to pull my feet back under the bench (powerlifting style) so i can arch my back more, so flat bench in a roundabout way becomes a decline, if you bench like this lats does indeed become a lot more involved and the sticking point will be easier, but then you should be doing more load with this technique.

The sticking point, it never goes away. If you have just up'ed the load a little and it's become a problem, you can use a spotter just to compensate with slight to help at this piont or 'bounce' the load, using a stretch shorten cycle to get past this point asap. It's cheating, but as long as you using it to progress, its good cheating.

One thing is never stop early if the sticking point is giving you trouble, muscles get strong at the lengths they are trained in, if you chronically stop a little early to avoid the sticking point, it will actually make you weaker when you do use full range on motion. No easy solution for this.

 

[Ryan H]

Thanks so much, body building and just general health, fitness seems to be one of those topics where everyone has a completely opposing and different opinion or method :dispirited:
Do you reccomend any creidbly and useful site or info anywhere?

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Thanks so much, body building and just general health, fitness seems to be one of those topics where everyone has a completely opposing and different opinion or method :dispirited:
Do you reccomend any creidbly and useful site or info anywhere?

Yeah, there certainly is many ways to get results in strength training and fitness, there's also certainly a balancing act between science and art in program design.

But also, most people are simply not qualified to give sound evidence based advice - I include the average PT in this. I personally don't read any internet sites, books or magazines as most of its crap and makes me sad. I certainly would never listen to the buff idiots at the gym.

What's your education level like? I can send you some ACSM guidelines for strength/mass building, but they are a bit 'sciency', but also of very high quality.

 

[Ryan H]

Yeah, there certainly is many ways to get results in strength training and fitness, there's also certainly a balancing act between science and art in program design.

But also, most people are simply not qualified to give sound evidence based advice - I include the average PT in this. I personally don't read any internet sites, books or magazines as most of its crap and makes me sad. I certainly would never listen to the buff idiots at the gym.

What's your education level like? I can send you some ACSM guidelines for strength/mass building, but they are a bit 'sciency', but also of very high quality.

Ahaha, cant quite really comment on my education level but if you are willing then I would definetely take a look at those guidelines, cant say no to science :high5:

 

[Bryce88]

Thermogenics?

A little bit off topic - has anyone taken any thermogenics and did you find they work? I have taken various proteins and weight gainers over the last couple years and now weigh in at about 90kgs. I'm pretty happy with the results I've had but now have a bit of a pot belly.

I do cardio most days, go to the gym 5 days a week and I eat healthy - I just need a little extra help with my stomach.

My questions:
Do thermo-genics work
If so what brands have worked for you
How much bodyfat did you lose
Do you take Pre-workout? I've read they give you a bit of a buzz.

Thanks in advance