pink poodle
気が狂っている男
Most of that $350 will be lost is in the freighting...they aren't a particularly light fork! I don't need big bad boys anymore, I'm way to smooth! I was even thinking of selling my 66s to buy the 170mm 55s...
Fox- is it just the short way of saying 'sub-standard suspension'?
- Thread starter shake_rattle_and_ roll
- Start date
Mywifesirrational
I however am very normal. Trust me.
Currently running a 350 ti, 380c2r2 and a Moto Cr2, still awesome stuff, and amazing prices due to them dying.
Alo661
Likes Bikes and Dirt
5.87 kgs. Not that heavy, for 2003.
Awesome fork. I had a mate with a set of Shivers...on a Banshee hardtail. What a fork, what a bike!
link1896
Mr Greenfield
Fox- is it just the short way of saying 'sub-standard POS'?
Still a market full of plastic junk for the 32mm rockshox range. I'd agree and add, if it doesn't have a shim stack and a pressurising gas to minimise cavitation, it's a toy.When I started working with suspension the only choice was Fox because they made real dampers with damper technology which could be serviced and tuned with accuracy, RS made unserviceable replace only plastic crap that felt ok but you couldn't do much with and frankly wasn't worth it unless you wanted to make a complete assembly, and thats the same reason why guys like Vorsprung/Push do alot of fox stuff, because you a refining a good product not reinvinting a poor one,
Obviously thats changed with recent changes to RS technology,
2012 Fox Fit damper (redesign of tech from 2005/6)
2015 RS Charger damper
If you ask alot of the guys like push/vorsprung etc why they make upgrades for fox its because its worth upgrading. eg a slight refinement on a compression housing on a CTD vs a complete boxxer cart eg Elka or old school Ohlins etc..
I think the main issue with Fox is OEM/cost, Fox is expensive product, so you buy a 3k bike which comes with a $300 fox shock, you replace it with a $600 RS and it feels great, that comparison makes for some unfair assumptions. eg. you need to compare a Factory 36 to a Pike RCT3 not a Evo 32.
I would also like to add that sometimes other factors come into play eg, that Giant killed RP23s by supplying 1000s of bikes with a shit tune. I spent 2 years of my life retuning 2-5 RP23s a day to suit Giants. The propedal worked on every giant RP23BV but the tune selection and linkage made it totally ineffective.
I think the market is only just starting to understand how complex suspension is,
and with regards to supply of service manuals, I handed out a few bits of info like IFP settings etc for DIYers. 90% of these shocks ended up in the shop getting major rebuilds and often getting binned because the lever of detail required to do a good job is way beyond most shops let alone most DIYers, anyone who has ever bleed a shock the way a RS manual tells you to and ridden it and thought it worked well is on drugs, or doesn't understand anything about bikes
hifiandmtb
Sphincter beanie
I think he means this:
I don't have an issue with it mostly being made of plastic. It's an excellent choice of material for that application.
I don't have an issue with it mostly being made of plastic. It's an excellent choice of material for that application.
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
It is because 32mm for stanchions are for kids...
Flow-Rider
Burner
You need a leftie then. Make it two, a leftie and a rightie. Nothing like subtle stiffness :behindsofa:
Warp
Likes Dirt
No doubt. But why can't we kids get access to the best stuff?
It seems like if you are riding a 32mm fork or a shock with less than 50mm travel, you are doomed to live with what you have.
Again, when you have less stroke, quality makes much of a difference. Yeah, she told me so.
moorey
call me Mia
Nothing wrong with a good 32mm fork, used for the right purpose as long as you're not a behemoth. Unless it's a fox 32... Then....meh.
shake_rattle_and_ roll
Pumpin'
I wouldn't be too worried BT180. I've no doubt they'll genuinely make for a nice change-up from what you've been riding & the bottom line is that there are plenty of aftermarket options out there for those wanting to play with the performance qualities of their fork & shock.
In terms of performance, OEM or otherwise up to now, I think the truth of the performance of Fox suspension might lie somewhere in Duckmeister & Poodle's response on the subject- certain Fox products work for certain people & styles.
Yep, that resonates with my own experiences of Fox's air sprung rear shocks, particularly the factory RP23s. I'd have been between 80-85kgs (wet/loaded) & don't ride like a plow cow, but I'd often touch on the end of the rear travel just riding some of the more "tech" bits of the southern end of Yarra trails. Always felt like once the wheel had moved through the first 1/4 of its travel there wasn't sufficient dampening for me thereafter.
Totally agree with you re every fork manufacturer having gone through their woes be it product design, manufacturing, support or their business structure as a whole. Rode Marzzochis & Manitous through the early 00s (Z1, Z3.5 OEM/Sherman Firefly, Sliders & Dorados)- look what happened to those two former big hitters; I then rode Fox & RS through the mid-00s before kind of just sticking to RS forks/shocks across my HTs, trail & DH bikes. Id' say it was primarily because of the whole price/performance/service/reliability/support equation of RS that it's ended up that way for me, & my experience with forks is largely based around aggressive trail or DH chassis.
It's not so much how Fox performs, it's more the whole package of Fox, particularly when I look at the entire equation. As someone touched on before, maybe it's Fox's acquisition by a private equity group that has been the telling change for where Fox has found itself in the last few years.
In terms of that last sentence, between you, me & the stanchion leg we know there's just not enough lube in the world for that, Poodle. Loved my Marzocchis too, but God it was disconcerting once the cryo-fit on the crowns started to go & the creaking began:shocked:
Yeah, there were some pros & cons with the RS mo-co units (& a few cartridge failures on the Boxxers) but for the non-DH applications cartridge death was mainly isolated to the serial fiddlers who would either set them up incorrectly or wound up their floodgate & expected the mo-co to be able to cater to stupidity. Personally I loved that 06-09 era of mo-co dampening, particularly in my Pike 454s & they're still a very stiff fork for a 32mm 2kg package- incredibly simple & effective with performance to boot for the price, & outperformed my equivalent era Talas 36s despite the Fox's barely being a tad stiffer & silkier when running primo. You did have to keep on top of your service intervals (well surpassing my Fox intervals though) to keep the 454s running mint but they had a great range of low speed compression & the corresponding high speed dynamics were then determined by your positive & negative pressure settings in the left leg. It was indeed quasi-dampening, & for some considered a toy, but in the 9yrs of putting a set through absolute hell & abuse across DJ & trail bikes I've never had a mo-co fail, seal leak/blow on either pos or neg chambers. Still running them on my Stanton Slackline.
I get a little uneasy or cynical at major suspension manufacturers (especially those that charge a premium) when they establish themselves in the market by producing very, very good suspension then go questionably south while continuing to charge that premium across the price & service aspects for well documented under performing or realistically unserviceable suspension. In Fox's case factory non-OEM performance forks in particular leave one squinting at the price tag in an apples with apples comparison, & yet OEM & Factory Fox owners alike, across all chassis & most ranges, make up the lion's share (if not all) of business for Push, Vorsprung & Mojo. Does that not seem extraordinary? Surely Fox owners aren't just an overly finicky bunch when it comes to their suspension.
On the other hand look at Fox in the off-road motorsport arena (where I was originally familiar with the Fox Suspension brand) & they kinda ARE the Rockshox of that industry. That lack of translation through mtbing at a performance/service level in the long term from Fox is probably one of the things that has surprised me.
That situation you described with Fox & Giant sounded like a shambles for both manufacturers, and yourself. What bikes were they coming off?
Can't vouch for RS' serviceability pre-2013 as I was riding Fox coils & RP23s. My experience with air sprung RS rear shocks only extends to the last few years with a Monarch RC3+ & the new Monarch RC3+ Debonair & they're definitely a pretty straightforward item that most inclined & capable owners can service, tune & ride with a result as per it would if sent to Monza/SRAM for servicing.
I'd definitely love to see Fox back on their game like they used to be.
Good mix of responses & experiences from people.
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pharmaboy
Eats Squid
It's all about perceived " size". If it were about stiffness actually been important then they'd all run lefty's, but they don't so it's all about what they believe about stiffness.
People with 34s or 36s just have a lack of confidence about other things........
jarrod839
Banned
Fox do need to pull there heads in with quality control.i have always had problems with there forks brand new either fitted to a new bike or from the box and it has always been a seal issue. But once fixed i have always been happy performance wise.
Never had a issue with there rear shocks that i have run in the past, even when i heard that the first batches of x2's had seal issues i was lucky enough to dodge that bullet.
I love the feel of the x2 in my banshee probably one of the best rear shocks ever.
Never had a issue with there rear shocks that i have run in the past, even when i heard that the first batches of x2's had seal issues i was lucky enough to dodge that bullet.
I love the feel of the x2 in my banshee probably one of the best rear shocks ever.
Ivan
Eats Squid
You should add a winking emoticon to your comment. Can't be serious.
teK--
Eats Squid
Until Lefties start coming out in 160+ travel they won't be taken seriously by anyone but XC and trail riders. Plus they look crap and limit stem choices anyway.
There is also the point of diminishing returns when it comes to stiffness. Even 36ers aren't for everyone they can be too harsh.
ozzybmx
taking a shit with my boobs out
My 2015 Fox fork creaks, apparently the issue was fixed for '15... apparently not.
Sola offered to replace the crown on warranty (send in for service, pay for service and they will also replace the crown) even know I am not the original owner, which was awesome.
Sadly they have not answered any more of my emails since the offer, so still creaking.
Ivan
Eats Squid
Just fyi but they do come in 160mm (Lefty Supermax).:nerd:
It's not the chassis that's an issue (although the I agree on the other negatives you mentioned) but rather the price and the quality of the damper.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/cannondale-jekyll-275-carbon-team-review-2014.html
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
See, that's the reason
Possibly also, that they didn't market the hell out of stiffness to the #enduro #allmountain rider
