DH Brakes

[Yeti Dan]

So I've got a set of Formula the Ones that were working perfectly fine before a trip to Thredbo.

The front rotor now rubs on rotation and howls so badly that I almost refuse to ride it now.. Nothing worse than the howl to let everyone know you are coming down a hill.. :tape2: The LBS seems to think it's an issue with the how close the calipers are with the rotor (There is hardly any throw in the lever). They spent some time looking at it, but unable to sort it out. Anyone have the same issue with Formulas? Could it be an issue with the Formula rotors?

Anyway, I entertained the idea of running XTR trails (203/180) or Guide RSC (203/180) on the DH. Has anyone had experience on both? I've heard good things about the RSC. Which would have more power outright stopping power?

I have XTR trails (180/160) on my trail bike and it's plenty of power. 90% of DH will be at Stromlo. I know Saints are the business for DH, but they weigh a ton and I'm less than 150lbs. Do I really need them?

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Is the rub constant - ie caliper or pads out of alignment or is the rotor warped?

Did you put new pads in? hence the very short lever throw - although formula's dont run much clearance at the best of times.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Resin or sintered pads?
Warped rotor would be from bending not heat. Rotor would go blue before heat warping.
Do you have RCS adjusters on your Formulas?
How old are they? You can get updated pistons that allow more pad clearance. Contact eighty1spicies.
Just straighten your rotor out. As long as there's no sharp bend, it's easy to do. Formula rotors are pretty easy to bend unfortunately. You can run other brand rotors if you like.
Pistons might need a service, bike shop mechs are usually lazy and it's better for them to upsell than recommend a brake service. Should be able to at least push pistons back in caliper.
XTR are no match for The Ones. I went from XTR to The Ones, never looked back, awesome brake, especialy with new pistons and RCS adjusters so they need less accurate bleeding..
XTR are still nice brakes, but not The One level of power and no adjustments, and pretty much the same weight.

 

[Yeti Dan]

Resin or sintered pads?
Warped rotor would be from bending not heat. Rotor would go blue before heat warping.
Do you have RCS adjusters on your Formulas?
How old are they? You can get updated pistons that allow more pad clearance. Contact eighty1spicies.
Just straighten your rotor out. As long as there's no sharp bend, it's easy to do. Formula rotors are pretty easy to bend unfortunately. You can run other brand rotors if you like.
Pistons might need a service, bike shop mechs are usually lazy and it's better for them to upsell than recommend a brake service. Should be able to at least push pistons back in caliper.
XTR are no match for The Ones. I went from XTR to The Ones, never looked back, awesome brake, especialy with new pistons and RCS adjusters so they need less accurate bleeding..
XTR are still nice brakes, but not The One level of power and no adjustments, and pretty much the same weight.

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll have to check the pads.

The boys took the wheel apart and said the rotor was straight and played around with the mounting adaptors and came to the conclusion that it was down to the clearance of the calipers. I would say they are 2013? Black/Gold finish (exact same as the one on Flow that they reviewed).

Sorry for being naïve, but what do the RCS adjusters do?

 

[teK--]

Saint blew the Guides out of the water in heat capacity and outright braking torque, in the latest Enduro Magazine lab test.

 

[Flow-Rider]

It would be handy to try a reset, don't know if all model Formulas work the same way but found this video that showed a reset.
My C1s where an absolute prick to set up and bleed but they work fine.

[video=youtube_share;PHcA205an0w]http://youtu.be/PHcA205an0w[/video]

 

[No Skid Marks]

Sorry for being naïve, but what do the RCS adjusters do?

They in theory shorten the lines(or lengthen) therefore making more fluid in the lines so they push the pads out more or less as you adjust it. So it's a knob on the line.

 

[Yeti Dan]

They in theory shorten the lines(or lengthen) therefore making more fluid in the lines so they push the pads out more or less as you adjust it. So it's a knob on the line.

Hmm interesting. I'd have to check when I get home. Would this theoretically give more clearance?

I thought initially it was just crap getting into the pads causing that awful sound grinding against the rotor. They were running perfectly before my trip to Thredbo. It's so frustrating because I love quiet bikes!!

 

[JTmofo]

Hmm interesting. I'd have to check when I get home. Would this theoretically give more clearance?

I thought initially it was just crap getting into the pads causing that awful sound grinding against the rotor. They were running perfectly before my trip to Thredbo. It's so frustrating because I love quiet bikes!!

Formula run quite narrow discs, but if they've been running fine previously then something has changed.
I'd be inclined to think that if the brakes squeal when you pull the lever in, chances are its simple contamination. Pads out, 10 mins on the BBQ, clean the rotors with some brake cleaner/IPA and give it another go.

If you are getting contact with the rotors without puling the lever, is it constant contact or at various points as the wheel rotates?
Constant contact could be the pads not retracting fully, ie. calipers need a right old clear and/or a seal change.
Variable contact is a warped rotors.

 

[Yeti Dan]

It's definitely variable contact. My first impression was that it was a warped rotor, but the LBS mentioned otherwise. They spent a bit of time on it and couldn't work it out.

Two issues really - The squeal which was non existent before Thredbo and the variable contact. I'll have to give the guys a call to see what else they tried to do to sort it out.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Hmm interesting. I'd have to check when I get home. Would this theoretically give more clearance?

I thought initially it was just crap getting into the pads causing that awful sound grinding against the rotor. They were running perfectly before my trip to Thredbo. It's so frustrating because I love quiet bikes!!

It all depends on your bleed, but 99% doubtful if they were fine before. Unless you squashed a line or something. Or do they have air in them? Do they pump up? RCS is handy for keeping consistent feel as pads wear or if they pump up due to air in the line.
I'd remove pads and rub them in a circular motion on smooth concrete a few times to deglaze them, or follow JTMofos tip but still rub them on the cement.
One of the springs may have got stuck above the pad or something.
Most likely need a piston service judging by their age. Any brake that age could be in need of that.

Saint blew the Guides out of the water in heat capacity and outright braking torque, in the latest Enduro Magazine lab test.

Saints are a DH brake, Guides a Trail/AM brake aren't they? Saints should win in that test no? The Ones were pretty much the same power as the older model Saints, not sure of the new ones. But then there's more powerful Formulas now too if you wanted more power.​

 

[higiff]

.

Saints are a DH brake, Guides a Trail/AM brake aren't they? Saints should win in that test no? The Ones were pretty much the same power as the older model Saints, not sure of the new ones. But then there's more powerful Formulas now too if you wanted more power.​

Yep saints are DH, guides are Trail brakes. For a direct comparison they should have used the Codes,
I prefer the codes over the saints personally.

 

[teK--]

Saints are a DH brake, Guides a Trail/AM brake aren't they? Saints should win in that test no? The Ones were pretty much the same power as the older model Saints, not sure of the new ones. But then there's more powerful Formulas now too if you wanted more power.
​

Does Avid have a DH brake?

Otherwise it is probably the closest comparison, for a 4 piston brake.

The Guides scored the worst heat handling capacity in the test even up against other "trail/AM" brakes.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Does Avid have a DH brake?

Otherwise it is probably the closest comparison, for a 4 piston brake.

The Guides scored the worst heat handling capacity in the test even up against other "trail/AM" brakes.

Avid Codes as mentioned above(while you were typing).
Got a link to the test?

 

[Yeti Dan]

It all depends on your bleed, but 99% doubtful if they were fine before. Unless you squashed a line or something. Or do they have air in them? Do they pump up? RCS is handy for keeping consistent feel as pads wear or if they pump up due to air in the line.
I'd remove pads and rub them in a circular motion on smooth concrete a few times to deglaze them, or follow JTMofos tip but still rub them on the cement.
One of the springs may have got stuck above the pad or something.
Most likely need a piston service judging by their age. Any brake that age could be in need of that.

Spoke to the LBS. I give up.. going to get a new set Thoughts on the RO? THey would be the DH equivalent from Formula, otherwise might get my hands on some RSCs.

 

[JTmofo]

Just go and buy Hope's.... Problem solved. Formula have lovely modulation and power, but are a pain in the arse if anything goes wrong with them.
I went for some Hope E4's, and will never go back.

 

[Ackland]

Dan

Before you give up, contact Krischan at Eightyonespices.
He's the formula distro and carries out servicing.
A lot of lbs mechanics don't see formula brakes much

He can also advise on adding the RCS adjusters.

Tell him Acko sent you.

 

[Boom King]

I got a pair of near new RO's for ridiculous money. They are a lovely brake.

 

[Boom King]

Btw, your problem is air in the system. Happened to my rear. Give them a bleed and they'll be fine.

 

[Yeti Dan]

Dan

Before you give up, contact Krischan at Eightyonespices.
He's the formula distro and carries out servicing.
A lot of lbs mechanics don't see formula brakes much

He can also advise on adding the RCS adjusters.

Tell him Acko sent you.

Do they have a contact number? I was trying to find a number on their site yesterday but to no avail.

Boom King - I've found sets for 400 F +R new without rotors... 415 on CRC with 203/180s...

JT - Have heard quite good things on the Hope, but they are probably a tad more expensive than other options and with their weight I'd probably be more inclined to go with Saints.