Chain selection and how to maximise life on cassettes

[pharmaboy]

I agree. Just run it till it starts to skip when climbing (the easiest indication IMHO) then replace chain + cassette and possibly the small ring up front if you have one. Drivetrains are a longer term consumable. This subject always get a bit jihady so there will be plenty of lines of thought but this is what works for me.

I just try to avoid crosschaining and full power uphill shifts that can't be a good thing. Sensible stuff that lessens the load lateral on the drivetrain.

Keep the chain clean as well as you can - don't overlube it so it doesn't hoover up all the dust but remember it is MTB anyhow. The drivetrain will probably go out of fashion these days and have the 'wrong number of gears or ratios' before it wears out :yell: says Captain Cynical here on monday morning.

I think Tek was referring to "past the wear indicator" part - most mechanics would realise that once you are past the wear indicator the chain is too long for the cassette to deal well with a new chain. Either run one chain per cassette, and hope it lasts a long time till you replace everything, or have some sort of chain replacement regime - depends on value of drivetrain which is best

 

[jda]

I replace my chain when it is at 0.75% on the park tool stretch indicator. With my xx1 setup my first chain did exactly 1400km. I must admit I never heard of this rotating chains method before.

 

[Mr Crudley]

I think Tek was referring to "past the wear indicator" part - most mechanics would realise that once you are past the wear indicator the chain is too long for the cassette to deal well with a new chain.

I'll admit I just jumped in there. :help: I tried to get all devoted to chain swapping and cleaniness etc but I think the gains overall are marginal.

Either run one chain per cassette, and hope it lasts a long time till you replace everything, or have some sort of chain replacement regime - depends on value of drivetrain which is best.

+1, I just let it all wear out together and worry about it then. Having a worn drivetrain is nice way of knowing that you are riding enough. Wait for someone to perfect a shaft drive

 

[MARKL]

Lube and clean 1 chain and replace 3 times...

Lube and clean 3 chains and replace once...

Do whatever you like because nobody has any evidence that one is better than the other

 

[Mr Crudley]

Do whatever you like because nobody has any evidence that one is better than the other

Well, that is about it. Glad that's all sorted out.

Now we can get onto wheelbuilding with brass nipples vs. alloy, using threadlock on spoke threads, greasing square taper BB's and then peace in the middle east :target:

 

[Warp]

Drivetrains are a longer term consumable.

This... I refuse to get fancy on drivetrain parts. XT is the most I will do. Shifters, you can go fancy as those normally outlive chains, rings and derailleurs.

But the rest is going to go bust sooner than later even under proper maintenance.

I do get anal with some other parts of the bike, but when it comes to the drivetrain my line of thinking is that it's a rough terrain vehicle and it should be very little maintenance intensive (unless you like Range Rovers).

All in all, whatever floats your boat.

 

[link1896]

View attachment 321204

Lube and clean 1 chain and replace 3 times...

Lube and clean 3 chains and replace once...

Do whatever you like because nobody has any evidence that one is better than the other

Spot on, well said.

 

[cabletieperformance]

So much nerd in this thread.... just ride your bikes and have fun while doing the basic maintenace required along the way... we arent engineering a rocket

 

[Flow-Rider]

If you want a robust cassette get the steel Alivio ones and they are really cheap. The only down fall is the weight.

 

[redbruce]

Objective evidence would be very challenging as everyone rides each bike in different conditions with different techniques and lubes etc. The key benefit for me is you always know that the chain you are swapping out will mesh well, unlike when you put the third chain onto a drivetrain by the chain wear monitoring method.

With several rotating chains you can ultimately run the cassette and ring into the ground for much longer than you could if you were relying upon putting a new chain onto the end of life drivetrain.

Putting the question back to you, is there any reason that there is increased life/cost from just rotating a new chain when a wear point is reached ?

Objective evidence does require controlling the variables other than the one in question, A single rider experience with the two proposed approaches (the experiment) over time, would be a suitable start.

While I accept your theory, its just that, no evidence (always know that the chain you are swapping out, will mesh with and ultimately run the cassette and ring into the ground for much longer ?).

At least this guy has data:

http://aushiker.com/bicycle_chain_wear/

The dodged question, is well, interesting.

As I stated (post #11), personally I found little difference (road/touring/Audax/ commuting admittedly) to the rotating chain versus ride 'em 'till they weep approach. I got 3 chains to a cassette (caveat, I did bin the cassette if it was was past it - pre-emptive of the chain skip senario) and did chain rings out of sympathy. I do clean the drivetrain regularly however.

MTB: I get two chains per cassette depending on the winter conditions (have lunched a complete drivetrain on a wet, muddy 24 hr event).

All things being equal quality chains and cassettes last longer than budget. I generally find SRAM stuff less durable than Shimano as well, but I like the feel of a SRAM drivetrain so mix 'n' match to get the best of both worlds..

I have had good performance from my $30 online XT chains and out of curiosity will next try a $50 (on special) KMC SL to see if the hype is correct.

Lube and clean 1 chain and replace 3 times...

Lube and clean 3 chains and replace once...

Do whatever you like because nobody has any evidence that one is better than the other

This is the real and salient point.

Opinions (and theories) are fine, but evidence is everything.

If you want a robust cassette get the steel Alivio ones and they are really cheap. The only down fall is the weight.

And don't last as long as XT, $ corrected.

Tried them touring , commuting and XC. XT is definitely the sweet spot for performance/$.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Wait for someone to perfect a shaft drive

Geraboxes are here and wear chains out far less than a derailleur does.
Belts are also out now for gearbox and single speed use, but I doubt their benefit for anything MTB orientated.

Lube and clean 1 chain and replace 3 times... High chance 3rd new chain will perform badly, especially if chain swaps weren't soon enough.

Lube and clean 3 chains and replace once... You will have better performance from your drivetrain for longer and spend less cash this way.

Do whatever you like because nobody has any evidence that one is better than the other A new chain doesn't perform well on a worn cassette. This is fact not theory.

While I accept your theory, just that, no evidence (always know that the chain you are swapping out will mesh well, can ultimately run the cassette and ring into the ground for much longer).

Have you never had a new chain skip on an old cassette? In shops I've worked in, if someone broke a very old chain, we'd try and find them a decent used one in the parts bin so they didn't have to buy a new cassette aswell as it was obviously going to be thrashed by the old chain(big gap between teeth, with bad teeth shape).
Riding/shifting/condition variables do determine how often to swap. Not sure if there's a known wear time that is a good time to do it.
Shifting poorly and running the chain from granny to small cassette sprocket and vica versa is a key to short cassette and chain life. In short, run chain as straight as possible if running front gears. and have a good chain line if running 1 x whatever.
Curious if the narrower cassette sprockets will wear quicker or if they have better anodizing etc to combat it.
But yes, do whatever you please, but please let knowledge and logic be shared to help someone have better longer performance and save cash(sounds like a premature advertisement).

 

[stirk]

Anyone rotate tyres??

 

[pharmaboy]

Anyone rotate tyres??

Every time I go for a ride....



Anyway, I didn't think rotating 3 chains was supposed to be any better or worse than replacing them when worn, but a strategy for people who either don't know how to measure a chain or aren't that good with maintenance - ie it's a simple concept requiring no other ability other than be able to follow instruction

 

[Flow-Rider]

And don't last as long as XT, $ corrected.

Tried them touring , commuting and XC. XT is definitely the sweet spot for performance/$.

How many KMs do you get out of your XT cassettes on your touring bike?

 

[redbruce]

Have you never had a new chain skip on an old cassette? In shops I've worked in, if someone broke a very old chain, we'd try and find them a decent used one in the parts bin so they didn't have to buy a new cassette aswell as it was obviously going to be thrashed by the old chain(big gap between teeth, with bad teeth shape).
Riding/shifting/condition variables do determine how often to swap. Not sure if there's a known wear time that is a good time to do it. But yes, do whatever you please, but please let knowledge and logic be shared to help someone have better longer performance and save cash(sounds like a premature advertisement).

1. No, the only time I was caught was in SA on a tour through the Finders Ranges. I blame lack of preparation and optimistic youth (yeah it was a while ago, and available $ might have had an (undue) influence).

2. Your observation re teeth condition is pretty conclusive and definitive in my experience regarding the diagnostive/prognostive assessment. I do understand the trappings of retail and I too have also reused old chains that were in better nick to make a cassette last a tad longer on my beater bike. I did it once on my tourer, which subsequently broke and I had to use the (spare) new one leaving me with only a few (high) gears useable until I could find a replacement cassette (see point 1 above).

3. Intuition and insight have value (maybe not appreciated), but mostly only the provence of the chosen (and experienced)

Anyone rotate tyres??

And my cranks/pedals. I think most would agree, so evidence is by by weight of numbers.

How many KMs do you get out of your XT cassettes on your touring bike?

Best around 20,000km (8 speed). Chainrings (upper two XT or TA Specialties, bottom SS Shimano) around 30,000k.

However I have trashed a complete drivetrain in <2,000k riding in constant rain on dirt backroads (maybe its just SA).

Of interest (perhaps) I have had standard XT (8sp) cone and cup bearing hubs do >30,000k with only one bearing change.

My touring load was typically 30kg of luggage let alone the bike and the pig riding it.

Kids now off my hands so about to return to it. Interesting to see how/if technology has changed (albeit 29 instead of 26)

 

[creaky]

The dodged question, is well, interesting.

As I stated (post #11), personally I found little difference (road/touring/Audax/ commuting admittedly) to the rotating chain versus ride 'em 'till they weep approach. I got 3 chains to a cassette (caveat, I did bin the cassette if it was was past it - pre-emptive of the chain skip senario) and did chain rings out of sympathy. I do clean the drivetrain regularly however.

MTB: I get two chains per cassette depending on the winter conditions (have lunched a complete drivetrain on a wet, muddy 24 hr event).

This is the real and salient point.

Opinions (and theories) are fine, but evidence is everything.
.

But you don't have any objective evidence do you ? Just an anecdotal opinion about your past experiences, presumably not with the same equipment, conditions with recorded mileage etc.

I wouldn't call 2 chains per cassette compelling evidence that your method is effective.

But really, this is all a it of a joke if we are talking about objective evidence for how you switch chains, it's not exactly cutting edge research. Just do what works for you and you prefer.

 

[redbruce]

But you don't have any objective evidence do you ? Just an anecdotal opinion about your past experiences, presumably not with the same equipment, conditions with recorded mileage etc.

I wouldn't call 2 chains per cassette compelling evidence that your method is effective.

I'm a professional scientist so objective evidence (including recording) is par for the course, as is the use of the scientific method.

My "evidence" is more than you have provided. I'm also not advocating a method, just providing some rigour to the debate.

I didn't actually present two chains/cassette (MTB) as compelling, just my experience (data), and even then no distance data to provide a basis for comparison.

I also admitted I haven't done the experiment for that genre, and was soliciting others experience. My anal days were touring/commuting/ Audax, and so was evidence presented.

You appear to have taken this personally. If your argument is to have credence, put up some data to support it.

You've contributed nothing to the issue other than what can be found in a superficial internet search so far.

But really, this is all a it of a joke if we are talking about objective evidence for how you switch chains, it's not exactly cutting edge research. Just do what works for you and you prefer.

As some would say in debating, stalling/dismissing/hedging tactics.

As for "the joke", well.......the cap fits at least one of us pretty well it would appear.

 

[single-pivot]

I find this interesting topic, as in Tas i get to do fair bit poor weather rideing .
Subsequently a lot of worn drive train.

So I have moved to replacing my chain as soon as its starting to stretch 2-3 months , so far having good success.
Front single chain ring and rear big ring / cassette have lasted longer ( on to 3rd chain replacement )
about 9 months use ,and would be ok for one to two more .
Previously i was getting 6 months tops out of drive train with regular cleaning routine.

 

[creaky]

I'm a professional scientist so objective evidence (including recording) is par for the course, as is the use of the scientific method.

My "evidence" is more than you have provided. I'm also not advocating a method, just providing some rigour to the debate.

You appear to have taken the challenge personally. That's not a factor in the "method" unfortunately.

I'm not saying two chains/cassette (MTB) is compelling. I admitted I haven't done the experiment for that genre, and was soliciting others experience.

My anal days were touring/commuting/ Audax, and so was evidence presented.

As for "the joke", well.......the cap fits at least one of us pretty well.

If your argument is to have credence, put up some data to support it.

You've contributed nothing to the issue other than what can be found in a superficial internet search so far.

Who thought chains could be so serious. Go forth and rotate (or not) :sleep:

 

[The Duckmeister]

Curious if the narrower cassette sprockets will wear quicker or if they have better anodizing etc to combat it.

Shimano at least tend to use the same treatments for equivalent level 8, 9, 10 and 11-sp. chains and cassettes. With that in mind, theory would suggest that the thinner sprockets would wear faster due to the load from the chain being concentrated on a smaller area. In reality I can't tell if the poofteenth of a millimetre difference in thickness makes any difference to the longevity. XT/Ultegra (for the road-oriented) are the hardest-wearing cassettes. Believe it or not, the blingy titanium sprockets of XTR/Dura-Ace wear out faster, as do the lower-spec models.