CCDB, Bis SToy or DHX RC4?
- Thread starter ALfromTheGym
- Start date
dhd
Downhill Direct
Ummm actually I do have a spare CCDB!......
stinky dee
Likes Dirt
Sorry, little bit of a hijack, but
I'm building up a new 951 with limited funds and it came with an RC4.
I have been in to dh for a while but have never had anything decent like this and badly need some guidance on how to set this thing up properly.
I have done plenty of searches here and on other sites but cant find anything conclusive.
I am happy to pay for someone to help set me up properly on this bike.
If it's any help, I am 74kgs and and was thinking of riding it in the 8.5 inch travel setting.
Cheers
I'm building up a new 951 with limited funds and it came with an RC4.
I have been in to dh for a while but have never had anything decent like this and badly need some guidance on how to set this thing up properly.
I have done plenty of searches here and on other sites but cant find anything conclusive.
I am happy to pay for someone to help set me up properly on this bike.
If it's any help, I am 74kgs and and was thinking of riding it in the 8.5 inch travel setting.
Cheers
If you're happy to pay, how much? If you have the funds send it to ken at tekin. He will tune it to the bike and your weight and being one of if not the best in the business regarding fox no doubt he can help you understand the shock.
I have some information from Ken in regards to my RC4 on my commencal however I am not sure if the information will transfer over to the 951 very well. I can post it here if you like but it may not work with your design. Upto you.
If you are having trouble understand the adjustment I can elaborate in the way i look at them if you would like that too.
lets us know if you want a reply and what you want me include.
stinky dee
Likes Dirt
Hey driftking, any info that you got would be great.
As I said, funds are limmited but there is no point riding something that dosen't suit me. If dollars need to be spent than thats what will have to happen!
Anything you could help me out with would be greatly appriciated but also I think I will be calling tekin.
One more thing, I live close to TBSM. Doese anyone have any experiance dealing with their fox tuner?
As I said, funds are limmited but there is no point riding something that dosen't suit me. If dollars need to be spent than thats what will have to happen!
Anything you could help me out with would be greatly appriciated but also I think I will be calling tekin.
One more thing, I live close to TBSM. Doese anyone have any experiance dealing with their fox tuner?
First up my take on the setting and how I use them.
Basically LSC is low speed shaft movements and HSC is highspeed shaft movements (this does not mean the bike speed although this will have affect as I will elaborate on later)
HSC - this controls virtually all the bumps and rock gardens you encounter, it controls the harshness felt initially or the initial compliance in the shock to forces and over all travel use in rock gardens and rough terrain. I.e you want the suspension to use appropriate travel, if a bump requires 3inches you want to use 3inches no more no less.
LSC - This controls the body movement and momentum shift on the trail so under pedaling LSC can be used to control bob, Under braking LSC can be used to control dive. Set this up to avoid too much dive or travel use under body movement like smooth corners and pedaling/dive. This is also used in wallowing holes.
Rebound- Obvious one this one, the rate at which the bike rebounds, if you have too much rebound dampening (too slow) the bike will pack down, this means that the suspension wont recover enough from a previous hit before it hits another one which means the suspension continues to get lower and lower in its travel. Not enough dampening (too fast) the bike doesn't settle in its travel and you loose traction and you get a harsh or unstable ride.
A good way to understand packing is if you use 3 inches then it rebound 2 then you hit another bump you use another 3 then rebound two. as you can see using 6 and rebounding 4 means that the fork is packing down (getting lower). You want a balance.
some people run very soft suspension and use faster rebound to account for the excess use, while others like my self use a stiff set up and use slower rebound.I prefer the stiff set up, It results in a bike that skimps over holes rather than falling in them, it also helps keep geometry stable.
Bottom out control - BOC controls how much the suspension ramps up towards the end of its travel.
Pressure - the pressure in the shock chamber controls the overall dampening of the shock but can primarily be used to control support in the suspension during mid stroke ans ending stroke.I use about 170. Always stay within the recommended ranges.
brief explanation of pressure and BOC use.
Lets assume you have the right spring rate and set the HSC and LSC and rebound up correctly as these are the simple ones.
If you find our are using too much travel in the rough you need to up your HSC, however if upping the HSC makes the bike harsh on square edge hits or in the rough, instead try upping the Pressure. By upping the pressure you are placing more support in the shock and you should notice that you use less travel but the bike is not harsh as HSC is kept the same.
If you find you are still bottoming out on big hits but again changing HSC or upping pressure makes the ride too harsh or too stiff, this is where you use the BOC, this will make the ending stroke of the shock ramp up more.
Now if the following is confusing or you cannot grasp the idea than disregard it and just go on everything else in the post.
Now there is some cross over with HSC and LSC depending on your riding speed. The faster you are the harder you hit things the more velocity is put through the suspension and the faster the shaft moves.This becomes a issue as slow riders will be relying more so on LSC than HSC, as you become faster more bumps become HSC and less become LSC, so for a slow rider who is trying to control support and bump absorption it becomes difficult as slower riders, more bumps are LSC. More support means more LSC but more bump absorption means less LSC. So there will be some cross over. The the faster the rider the less cross over there is. So being a fast rider actually makes suspension set up and performance easier.
Ie. slow riders 50% is HSC 50% is LSC. now you are trying to control 50% of bumps with LSC and your also trying to control momentum and movement with LSC so this means the LSC is stretched between two things with more compromise. As you get faster more bumps become HSC so the faster you go you might end up with bumps being controlled by 80%HSC and 20% LSC, this means that the LSC can be focused on its job rather than bump absorption, hence less compromise.
I hope that helps.
Now the information I received in regards to my set up on the commencal is as follows. note: this is assuming you have the right spring rate.
Air pressure, start with 150, run higher pressure for more support / mid-speed compression and to increase the end stroke control. For HSC, start mid range, negative 6 clicks. For LSC, negative 6 to 8 clicks. For rebound, start with the adjuster negative 6 to 8 clicks.
When it says negative, you need to turn the adjusters to full on or full positive and count backwards clicks. As for BOC this is dependent on the bike, start with BOC zero (negative 4 turns) and adjust as you test and tune.
I hope that all makes sense and helps.
Basically LSC is low speed shaft movements and HSC is highspeed shaft movements (this does not mean the bike speed although this will have affect as I will elaborate on later)
HSC - this controls virtually all the bumps and rock gardens you encounter, it controls the harshness felt initially or the initial compliance in the shock to forces and over all travel use in rock gardens and rough terrain. I.e you want the suspension to use appropriate travel, if a bump requires 3inches you want to use 3inches no more no less.
LSC - This controls the body movement and momentum shift on the trail so under pedaling LSC can be used to control bob, Under braking LSC can be used to control dive. Set this up to avoid too much dive or travel use under body movement like smooth corners and pedaling/dive. This is also used in wallowing holes.
Rebound- Obvious one this one, the rate at which the bike rebounds, if you have too much rebound dampening (too slow) the bike will pack down, this means that the suspension wont recover enough from a previous hit before it hits another one which means the suspension continues to get lower and lower in its travel. Not enough dampening (too fast) the bike doesn't settle in its travel and you loose traction and you get a harsh or unstable ride.
A good way to understand packing is if you use 3 inches then it rebound 2 then you hit another bump you use another 3 then rebound two. as you can see using 6 and rebounding 4 means that the fork is packing down (getting lower). You want a balance.
some people run very soft suspension and use faster rebound to account for the excess use, while others like my self use a stiff set up and use slower rebound.I prefer the stiff set up, It results in a bike that skimps over holes rather than falling in them, it also helps keep geometry stable.
Bottom out control - BOC controls how much the suspension ramps up towards the end of its travel.
Pressure - the pressure in the shock chamber controls the overall dampening of the shock but can primarily be used to control support in the suspension during mid stroke ans ending stroke.I use about 170. Always stay within the recommended ranges.
brief explanation of pressure and BOC use.
Lets assume you have the right spring rate and set the HSC and LSC and rebound up correctly as these are the simple ones.
If you find our are using too much travel in the rough you need to up your HSC, however if upping the HSC makes the bike harsh on square edge hits or in the rough, instead try upping the Pressure. By upping the pressure you are placing more support in the shock and you should notice that you use less travel but the bike is not harsh as HSC is kept the same.
If you find you are still bottoming out on big hits but again changing HSC or upping pressure makes the ride too harsh or too stiff, this is where you use the BOC, this will make the ending stroke of the shock ramp up more.
Now if the following is confusing or you cannot grasp the idea than disregard it and just go on everything else in the post.
Now there is some cross over with HSC and LSC depending on your riding speed. The faster you are the harder you hit things the more velocity is put through the suspension and the faster the shaft moves.This becomes a issue as slow riders will be relying more so on LSC than HSC, as you become faster more bumps become HSC and less become LSC, so for a slow rider who is trying to control support and bump absorption it becomes difficult as slower riders, more bumps are LSC. More support means more LSC but more bump absorption means less LSC. So there will be some cross over. The the faster the rider the less cross over there is. So being a fast rider actually makes suspension set up and performance easier.
Ie. slow riders 50% is HSC 50% is LSC. now you are trying to control 50% of bumps with LSC and your also trying to control momentum and movement with LSC so this means the LSC is stretched between two things with more compromise. As you get faster more bumps become HSC so the faster you go you might end up with bumps being controlled by 80%HSC and 20% LSC, this means that the LSC can be focused on its job rather than bump absorption, hence less compromise.
I hope that helps.
Now the information I received in regards to my set up on the commencal is as follows. note: this is assuming you have the right spring rate.
Air pressure, start with 150, run higher pressure for more support / mid-speed compression and to increase the end stroke control. For HSC, start mid range, negative 6 clicks. For LSC, negative 6 to 8 clicks. For rebound, start with the adjuster negative 6 to 8 clicks.
When it says negative, you need to turn the adjusters to full on or full positive and count backwards clicks. As for BOC this is dependent on the bike, start with BOC zero (negative 4 turns) and adjust as you test and tune.
I hope that all makes sense and helps.
Last edited:
stinky dee
Likes Dirt
Thanks driftking for all that info.
Now I think I should be able to adjust this up properly
Cheers
Now I think I should be able to adjust this up properly
Cheers
Just to add as I did forget LSC does affect small traction like small roots etc, Before getting LSC sorted make sure you have you rebound set up. A good way to test is to ride with HIGH LSC and then LOW LSC and you will immediately get a idea of what it does to the ride.
Also a important note is that you need to make sure when testing that you keep your tire pressure the same and try keep the tire condition the same, so its best to do your testing on new tires. These are super important factors with LSC tuning as they affect that very small bump traction that LSC can change.
Anyway i hope the information wasn't too confusing and you will get a good idea once you start testing.
P.S Keep a record of settings, take some paper and a pen so you can always revert back and make notes.
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stinky dee
Likes Dirt
Cheers, will give that a go as well.
Thanks again mate!
Thanks again mate!
hahah I am definitely not a God of information, there are so many things that I still need to learn, My information is fairly limited to specific areas and lots of time previously googling, testing and speaking to people more experienced than me. But I try to help when I can on here
