CCDB, Bis SToy or DHX RC4?

[ALfromTheGym]

Thinking about changing rear shocks. Currently running a DHX RC4 on my 951. But I have been looking at the CCDB or Bos SToy or a change. No other real reason but I just want something different so I can think about putting the DHX on my Scratch 9.

Anyone have preferences or advice? I have not ridden either the CCDB or Bos before do any feedback would be great.

 

[MB]

Thinking about changing rear shocks. Currently running a DHX RC4 on my 951. But I have been looking at the CCDB or Bos SToy or a change. No other real reason but I just want something different so I can think about putting the DHX on my Scratch 9.

Anyone have preferences or advice? I have not ridden either the CCDB or Bos before do any feedback would be great.

Both of these shocks are brilliant and I would recommend either. The CCDB would be my choice not because of any other reason other than I've not tuned an Intense with the BOS. CCDB it also a winner due to it being an Ohlins unit, they make some of the finest dampers on the planet. There are other reasons such as small shaft diameter which means smaller seal surface area, translating into less stiction too. The CCDB works nicely in the 951 because it doesn't have a bottom out control forcing the shock to ramp up. The 951 is plenty progressive without the need for this. CCDB is also super reliable too, having long service intervals.

As for the BOS? I've ridden it in other bikes (not Intense) and I will say that it works beautifully. It's nicely made and reliable too. If you got it valved/tuned appropriately I'm sure it would compliment your 951 nicely.

 

[VTSS350]

I have owned an Intense M6 with an RC4 and Bos Stoy and now have an M9 with a BOS Stoy on it. (it came with an RC4)

The BOS stoy is so much better than the Fox its not funny. The small bump compliance is second to none!
The BOS shocks come setup with a base tune ready to ride.

The CCDB is a great shock but has a far larger tuning range. It doesnt come with any base setup and can be tricky to setup if you dont know what your doing.

 

[driftking]

Both shocks will work well in the bike. The 951 has a funny curve rate so some people have trouble getting the shocks set up to work with it. If you really know what you are doing then the CCDB will be a great choice as you have massive adjustments and you can get it tuned well. A lot of people do run CCDB on the 951 and from what I understand it is a great pair together.
Again the bos is a good pair with anything, it is custom tuned to your bikes design and rider weight so it again will suit the bike well. My mate runs Bos suspension on his 951 and it works great. The stoy is almost unbelievable how frictionless it feels and there is a definite increase in sensitivity in corners and traction (I'm sure there was some placebo effect as well).

In this situation I don't think you can go wrong, both brilliant shocks, the stoy will come better suited to the bike and will need some minor set up changes and tweaking, the CCDB is like a mass produced shock and you will need to take some more time to get a base set up then tweak but in the end both are brilliant.

To throw one more option in the mix before someone else does, have you considered getting the Rc4 tuned by tekin. Email Ken as see what he can do with the shock and if he has a tune for the 951 (he probably will he is the goto man for fox). It will cost you what half the price and the shock will be tuned to the bike and weight like the stoy. Of course the rc4 doesn't have the needle point bearings that BOS have but If you are desperate enough you can get them for the Rc4, I believe you can get the same model number that bos use, also enduro bearings work though they need a little more attention to maintenance and need to be rotated every now and then to reduce wearing.
I also heard fox are releasing new bearings that reduce friction/striction by 50%.

 

[Nerf Herder]

read somewhere that cane creek have a new website coming with base tune per make and model ... unsure when

 

[Freeo]

read somewhere that cane creek have a new website coming with base tune per make and model ... unsure when

Yep they do I used it for my demo8

 

[MB]

In this situation I don't think you can go wrong, both brilliant shocks, the stoy will come better suited to the bike and will need some minor set up changes and tweaking, the CCDB is like a mass produced shock and you will need to take some more time to get a base set up then tweak but in the end both are brilliant.

To throw one more option in the mix before someone else does, have you considered getting the Rc4 tuned by tekin. Email Ken as see what he can do with the shock and if he has a tune for the 951 (he probably will he is the goto man for fox). It will cost you what half the price and the shock will be tuned to the bike and weight like the stoy. Of course the rc4 doesn't have the needle point bearings that BOS have but If you are desperate enough you can get them for the Rc4, I believe you can get the same model number that bos use, also enduro bearings work though they need a little more attention to maintenance and need to be rotated every now and then to reduce wearing.
I also heard fox are releasing new bearings that reduce friction/striction by 50%.

Do you mean by this that the CCDB is a cheaper built shock? I don't know if tis is the case. The shock is nicely put together by skilled craftsmen that know what it takes to build a good damper. The range is certainly wider is what can be achieved with the controls, but that doesn't make it cheap either. It's just well thought out (except the factory Ti coils kinda rub on the main body :witless.

But by all means try Ken @ Tekin for a tune if you're down south but if you're up North go see Nigel or Aaron @ NS Dynamics. It's certainly worth your time to give it a go, the Fox is still a rad shock, there is definitley worse out there...

 

[driftking]

Do you mean by this that the CCDB is a cheaper built shock? I don't know if tis is the case. The shock is nicely put together by skilled craftsmen that know what it takes to build a good damper. The range is certainly wider is what can be achieved with the controls, but that doesn't make it cheap either. It's just well thought out (except the factory Ti coils kinda rub on the main body :witless.

But by all means try Ken @ Tekin for a tune if you're down south but if you're up North go see Nigel or Aaron @ NS Dynamics. It's certainly worth your time to give it a go, the Fox is still a rad shock, there is definitley worse out there...

No not at all, by "like a mass produced shock" I meant that it comes as a stock setting for all the shocks and does not come tuned to the bike so you need to put the time in to tune it yourself, the adjustment range is a lot bigger as you can change it between bikes and tune it. Were as the stoy you cannot change between bikes as it gets tuned to the bike.

 

[jrewing]

Were as the stoy you cannot change between bikes as it gets tuned to the bike.

Cause you can....you revalve the thing...just like you can revalve a CCDB, because unlike an Ohlins TTx they run a valved piston on the main shaft because the flow thru the adjusters is too little...meaning not all the dampening runs thru the adjusters.

By the way. My CC ti spring was progressive...probably because they have no progression. Anyone else tested thier CC spring? I am Curious

 

[driftking]

Cause you can....you revalve the thing

Yes but What I mean is that you need to get it re-valved where the CCDB or RC4 doesn't need that you just reset your adjustments and re tune it. You couldn't just switch a stoy to another bike in 10min, you need to re-valve it.

 

[jrewing]

Yes but What I mean is that you need to get it re-valved where the CCDB or RC4 doesn't need that you just reset your adjustments and re tune it. You couldn't just switch a stoy to another bike in 10min, you need to re-valve it.

But really why are you switching a shock so often, its not a situation in that you couldnt plan the revalve with say a new frame coming. More chance the size is wrong

 

[B.utters]

Yes but What I mean is that you need to get it re-valved where the CCDB or RC4 doesn't need that you just reset your adjustments and re tune it. You couldn't just switch a stoy to another bike in 10min, you need to re-valve it.

It depends on the tune that the Stoy comes with. There is a pdf on their website which shows which tune is required for each frame.

 

[MB]

Cause you can....you revalve the thing...just like you can revalve a CCDB, because unlike an Ohlins TTx they run a valved piston on the main shaft because the flow thru the adjusters is too little...meaning not all the dampening runs thru the adjusters.

By the way. My CC ti spring was progressive...probably because they have no progression. Anyone else tested thier CC spring? I am Curious

No, I've not tested my spring for progressiveness. Did yours rub on the body of the shock?

 

[Ruys]

I had an obtanium Ti pring on my CCDB and it didn't rub at all then got a CC steel spring on there and it's started rubbing. Apparently there was a few complaints from people saying that the spring was rubbing the body so they threw a protective plastic coating over it and now they just about all rub. If you turn the spring a quarter turn it might stop.

Absolutely love the shock other than that.

 

[driftking]

But really why are you switching a shock so often, its not a situation in that you couldnt plan the revalve with say a new frame coming. More chance the size is wrong

You are getting to specific, I was not saying you need to change the shock over at all. My point to my original post you quoted was that I said "mass produced" and you questioned if I was talking down their quality.

I am just saying that a CCDB is a standard tuned shock like that off other mass markets like RC4, it is a shock that comes with a tune and then you need to do the tuning work yourself and it will fit on any bike and work with it straight away with some tuning. All my point was that the CCDB wont come specific to the bike and will take more time to set up and has a larger range to cover virtually everything, where the BOS is sub sectioned to specific tunes and will take less set up ie. not like a mass produced style shock.

The BOS is not like that in that it comes preset to a extent to the bike and you need to fine tune it, basically it is a more specific shock the CCDB is not.

The CCDB is like a RC4 in the way you receive it hence it is like a mass produced shock. That is not taking into account quality as we know CC's quality is exceptional.

TO conclude:
-I said mass produced to explain the way you receive the shock and how its adjustment range is large and you don't get a shock that comes with a pre-tuned bass setting.

-You questioned my use of mass produced

-I used the bike changing shock as a example of why I used the term mass produced hence that with the wide range and no specific tune you can change it to any bike and tune it because it is like any other shock that doesn't come tuned. It doesn't need re valving.

It was a simple example of how the shocks are different, there was no need to complicate it or explain that you can get a re valved BOS because the exact point of the statement is to point out you don't need to do this with a CCDB so it was mute to explain it.

It depends on the tune that the Stoy comes with. There is a pdf on their website which shows which tune is required for each frame.

As above. It was a simple point to explain my use of "mass produced" and the fact that it doesn't have "specific tunes" It was irrelevant to go into detail about the tunes bos offer as the point again of the statement was to point out that CCDB doesn't have this so It was not necessary to put the point across.

 

[MB]

I am just saying that a CCDB is a standard tuned shock like that off other mass markets like RC4, it is a shock that comes with a tune and then you need to do the tuning work yourself and it will fit on any bike and work with it straight away with some tuning. All my point was that the CCDB wont come specific to the bike and will take more time to set up and has a larger range to cover virtually everything, where the BOS is sub sectioned to specific tunes and will take less set up ie. not like a mass produced style shock.

Not true. The RC4 is tuned way more specifically than a CCDB. You're quite right in saying that the CCDB doesn't need as specific a shim tune though, the range is far wider than either the RC4 or Stoy. The Stoy and RC4 are quite similar in the spec of the tune they come with, just requiring minor tweaks to suit rider preference.

The BOS is not like that in that it comes preset to a extent to the bike and you need to fine tune it, basically it is a more specific shock the CCDB is not.

True, is. The RC4 is similar in that respect though.

The CCDB is like a RC4 in the way you receive it hence it is like a mass produced shock. That is not taking into account quality as we know CC's quality is exceptional.

Not necessarily true, the RC4 is more specifically tuned to differing linkages, leverage ratios, etc. (The vivid also falls into this category, if tuned well it's a fantastic shock, but it suffers from the lack of tuning range within any given shim stack in some people's opinions.) It just has a slightly wider tuning range than a Stoy. You can whack a standard CCDB in a wider range of bikes without re-shimming than you can with the Fox. Fox have pretty good quality too, maybe not quite like the Stoy or CCDB though. It's certainly more mass produced.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, believe me, but i have had experience with a lot of different shocks and different bikes. Over the last couple of years I've been tuning VPP bikes (hence my avatar) and used enough different shocks in these things to know what needs what. I've no doubt either that you have a good idea of how suspension works and how to set it up, I saw what you posted in the Boxxer tune thread and it makes perfect sense if you are super fast. I'm just being a bit of a nerd like you and throwing my 2 cents in and I just want people to have the best info they can when it comes to these things, it's important.

 

[ALfromTheGym]

Hey guys, thanks for all the thoughts, advice and opinions. After some consideration and shopping around, I have decided on the Bos SToy. I found one for sale with Ti spring in the weight I wanted. Plus I couldn't find a CCDB with Ti spring, nor could I justify the extra to buy a CCDB and Ti spring new due to the fact that at my somewhat novice/fun level of dh I don't think he difference in adjustability/tune ability would greatly kissed over the SToy.

In conclusion, unless this deal falls to balls I'm going with the SToy (unless someone knows anyone selling a 9.5 x 3 CCDB?).

 

[driftking]

Not true. The RC4 is tuned way more specifically than a CCDB. You're quite right in saying that the CCDB doesn't need as specific a shim tune though, the range is far wider than either the RC4 or Stoy. The Stoy and RC4 are quite similar in the spec of the tune they come with, just requiring minor tweaks to suit rider preference.



True, is. The RC4 is similar in that respect though.



Not necessarily true, the RC4 is more specifically tuned to differing linkages, leverage ratios, etc. (The vivid also falls into this category, if tuned well it's a fantastic shock, but it suffers from the lack of tuning range within any given shim stack in some people's opinions.) It just has a slightly wider tuning range than a Stoy. You can whack a standard CCDB in a wider range of bikes without re-shimming than you can with the Fox. Fox have pretty good quality too, maybe not quite like the Stoy or CCDB though. It's certainly more mass produced.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, believe me, but i have had experience with a lot of different shocks and different bikes. Over the last couple of years I've been tuning VPP bikes (hence my avatar) and used enough different shocks in these things to know what needs what. I've no doubt either that you have a good idea of how suspension works and how to set it up, I saw what you posted in the Boxxer tune thread and it makes perfect sense if you are super fast. I'm just being a bit of a nerd like you and throwing my 2 cents in and I just want people to have the best info they can when it comes to these things, it's important.

WTF I wrote a fairly extensive reply to this and its not here. I was looking forward to a post back. I cant be arsed to re write this now. But I might later on so stay tuned.

 

[driftking]

Not true. The RC4 is tuned way more specifically than a CCDB. You're quite right in saying that the CCDB doesn't need as specific a shim tune though, the range is far wider than either the RC4 or Stoy. The Stoy and RC4 are quite similar in the spec of the tune they come with, just requiring minor tweaks to suit rider preference.
First up to make it easier I will point out in the following when I say tuned i am referring to a tune that is specific to the individual, all shocks obviously have a tune and I will refer to this as factory tune.
The Rc4 doesn't come "tuned" it comes with a factory tune as does the CCDB, the stoy actually comes tuned to your bikes design.
the factory tune of a RC4 is a narrower field then that of the CCDB but it is still not coming tuned to the bike. If you pick up a RC4 you receice a base tune that is it whether it works with your bike or not that is what you get and there is no tuning involved. The same goes for the CCDB. The BOS on the other hand you buy one and it comes tuned to the bike so there is no worry of it not working as you always will receive a tuned shock. When you say The Stoy and RC4 are quite similar in the spec of the tune they come with, just requiring minor tweaks to suit rider preference.What happens though if you have a bike that does not work with a RC4 factory tune.., You order a BOS it comes tuned and it works straight away with minor tweaks, You order a RC4 it comes factory tuned and doesn't work with the bike. you then need to do the re-shim/tune yourself, hence doesn't come tuned.


Not necessarily true, the RC4 is more specifically tuned to differing linkages, leverage ratios, etc. (The vivid also falls into this category, if tuned well it's a fantastic shock, but it suffers from the lack of tuning range within any given shim stack in some people's opinions.) It just has a slightly wider tuning range than a Stoy. You can whack a standard CCDB in a wider range of bikes without re-shimming than you can with the Fox. Fox have pretty good quality too, maybe not quite like the Stoy or CCDB though. It's certainly more mass produced.
Again while factory tunes will work better with different design or leverages it does not make the shock tuned as you are receiving a factory tune. It is easy to say the fox works with this bike but on the flip side what if you are buying it for a bike that it does not work with, do you receive a tuned shock? no you receive a base shock that now needs tuning. Therefore you cant consider it a tuned shock.
While the ranges might be comparable the fact is with a BOS you get the range exact where it needs to be, with a RC4 you get the range where fox wants it and if you fall out side this range then you need to tune, Bos tunes to your range Fox does not. If you happen to fall in the fox range than you are fine. Fox the bike fits the shock where as bos the shock fits the bike.
yes we can get into details about how factory tuning caters for specific ranges but we need to look at the way we receive the shock and while the factory tune in some shock like the CCDB cover more than others like the RC4 you are still never receiving a tuned shock for your bike.If the RC4 doesn't work with your bike then you need to re shim it. If the CCDB doesn't work it generally should cover it with adjustments to get a base setting In both situations you never receive a shock you can throw in and already have a great base line, with the BOS you receive this..The CCDB will always need adjustment to find a base line and the Rc4 is the same even possibly needed a re-shim. In both instances you are doing the tuning it doesn't come tuned.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, believe me, but i have had experience with a lot of different shocks and different bikes. Over the last couple of years I've been tuning VPP bikes (hence my avatar) and used enough different shocks in these things to know what needs what. I've no doubt either that you have a good idea of how suspension works and how to set it up, I saw what you posted in the Boxxer tune thread and it makes perfect sense if you are super fast. I'm just being a bit of a nerd like you and throwing my 2 cents in and I just want people to have the best info they can when it comes to these things, it's important.

I completely understand where you are coming from and my previous reply that didn't post was explained better, but I hope this gets my point across the way i intend it too.
I get you are saying that from the factory they come with specific tunes and the fox one being narrower is fairly similar in that regard to a bos in that the bikes that it can be switched between are limited more so where as the CCDB will basically cover almost all ranges of designs without needing re-shiming. But you never get to pick your range with a RC4 so it cannot be considered tuned. Really you receive a base shock with average amount of adjustment. CCDB you receive a base shock with large adjustment. BOS you receive a tuned shock with small adjustment as its all you need.
While I 100% agree with that you are still not getting a tuned shock from CCDB or RC4 only the BOS will give you a tuned shock that is right from the get go the CCDB and RC4 you get a factory tune to suit most bikes.
So in terms of a factory tune than the field is a bit wide spread with CCDB been on one end with this massive range, the Rc4 coming in the middle and then BOS with a small range. But the range of the bos is always right hence tuned when you receive it. no need to re-shim it, where as the Rc4 may need a re-shim.

Using your logic about the RC4 could we not flip that and Using the same logic we could argue that the CCDB is more tuned than a FOX as it doesn't require a re-shim or any internal changes therefore it caters your bike more effectively than a FOX has the potential too. While it is not specific it requires less involved tuning?

So bottom line neither come tuned, they come factory tuned. BOS comes tuned.

Sorry for the repetitive nature of the post.
P.S I love a good argument/debate, even if I end up being wrong on the subject I enjoy making my point and trying to win.

Hey guys, thanks for all the thoughts, advice and opinions. After some consideration and shopping around, I have decided on the Bos SToy. I found one for sale with Ti spring in the weight I wanted. Plus I couldn't find a CCDB with Ti spring, nor could I justify the extra to buy a CCDB and Ti spring new due to the fact that at my somewhat novice/fun level of dh I don't think he difference in adjustability/tune ability would greatly kissed over the SToy.

In conclusion, unless this deal falls to balls I'm going with the SToy (unless someone knows anyone selling a 9.5 x 3 CCDB?).

You wont need the extra range of a CCDB, as I have just gone though above in my reply the BOS gives you the range of adjustment you need no more no less. the CCDB gives you a lot of adjustment a little you need a lot you don't, but this allows them to be used and switched between bikes without any hassle of internal changes or re-shims. BOS is a great choice if you have not ridden one you will be amazed at how frictionless it feels, just make sure that the shock has the same tune you need, I think bos have 5 or so different tunes. If you get a wrong tuned shock it will need to be re-tuned by a authorized dealer or BOS themselves.

 

[MB]

Hey guys, thanks for all the thoughts, advice and opinions. After some consideration and shopping around, I have decided on the Bos SToy. I found one for sale with Ti spring in the weight I wanted. Plus I couldn't find a CCDB with Ti spring, nor could I justify the extra to buy a CCDB and Ti spring new due to the fact that at my somewhat novice/fun level of dh I don't think he difference in adjustability/tune ability would greatly kissed over the SToy.

In conclusion, unless this deal falls to balls I'm going with the SToy (unless someone knows anyone selling a 9.5 x 3 CCDB?).

Hey congratulations on your choice, you will definitely not be disappointed.

I completely understand where you are coming from and my previous reply that didn't post was explained better, but I hope this gets my point across the way i intend it too.
I get you are saying that from the factory they come with specific tunes and the fox one being narrower is fairly similar in that regard to a bos in that the bikes that it can be switched between are limited more so where as the CCDB will basically cover almost all ranges of designs without needing re-shiming. But you never get to pick your range with a RC4 so it cannot be considered tuned. Really you receive a base shock with average amount of adjustment. CCDB you receive a base shock with large adjustment. BOS you receive a tuned shock with small adjustment as its all you need.
While I 100% agree with that you are still not getting a tuned shock from CCDB or RC4 only the BOS will give you a tuned shock that is right from the get go the CCDB and RC4 you get a factory tune to suit most bikes.
So in terms of a factory tune than the field is a bit wide spread with CCDB been on one end with this massive range, the Rc4 coming in the middle and then BOS with a small range. But the range of the bos is always right hence tuned when you receive it. no need to re-shim it, where as the Rc4 may need a re-shim.

Using your logic about the RC4 could we not flip that and Using the same logic we could argue that the CCDB is more tuned than a FOX as it doesn't require a re-shim or any internal changes therefore it caters your bike more effectively than a FOX has the potential too. While it is not specific it requires less involved tuning?

So bottom line neither come tuned, they come factory tuned. BOS comes tuned.

Sorry for the repetitive nature of the post.
P.S I love a good argument/debate, even if I end up being wrong on the subject I enjoy making my point and trying to win.


You wont need the extra range of a CCDB, as I have just gone though above in my reply the BOS gives you the range of adjustment you need no more no less. the CCDB gives you a lot of adjustment a little you need a lot you don't, but this allows them to be used and switched between bikes without any hassle of internal changes or re-shims. BOS is a great choice if you have not ridden one you will be amazed at how frictionless it feels, just make sure that the shock has the same tune you need, I think bos have 5 or so different tunes. If you get a wrong tuned shock it will need to be re-tuned by a authorized dealer or BOS themselves.

Wow, thanks for that. So have we all worked out that the CCDB and Stoy are better than an RC4? Good. I don't know about everybody else here, but I now consider myself educated.