2011 Victorian Enduro Series
- Thread starter akashra
- Start date
A.G.Thomas
Banned
Dates travel plans
Trying to organize time off work - are the dates and venues finalized yet? Is Geelong the Saturday or Sunday?
Trying to organize time off work - are the dates and venues finalized yet? Is Geelong the Saturday or Sunday?
Team rules
Gday, just a clarrifier... for the teams rules. My wife and I will probably ride most of these events as a pair, most likely alternating laps, so the question is:
- Is it the time that each rider spends on the course needs to be roughly equal, if so, we will be likely to have uneven laps completed as one of us is a little quicker; or
- Is the the number of laps each rider completes needs to be roughly equal, if so, one of use will be on the course for longer, for the same amount of laps?
Make sense? hope so, because its confused me!
Looking forward to the series, thanks to the organisers and clubs who put the effort in to run these things!! Keep up the good work, it is much appreciated.
Cheers
Gday, just a clarrifier... for the teams rules. My wife and I will probably ride most of these events as a pair, most likely alternating laps, so the question is:
- Is it the time that each rider spends on the course needs to be roughly equal, if so, we will be likely to have uneven laps completed as one of us is a little quicker; or
- Is the the number of laps each rider completes needs to be roughly equal, if so, one of use will be on the course for longer, for the same amount of laps?
Make sense? hope so, because its confused me!
Looking forward to the series, thanks to the organisers and clubs who put the effort in to run these things!! Keep up the good work, it is much appreciated.
Cheers
Apologies, read the thread more thoroughly and discovered it is the time spent on course... good decision!
sossy
Saucier
The GMBC Crazy 6 is definately on the Sat. 12th Feb.
Be there, sure to be another cracker. Flat track, no rest, ohhh yeah, feel the burn!
It looks as though it is both
I am a little confused as to how both will apply. i understand the reasoning behind it and agree its sets an even playing field, but if one rider in a pair is say on average 10 mins a lap faster per lap, over six hours this could equate up to a significant amount of time that one rider spends on course as compared to their other half. Plus what about flats/mechanical issues etc that could blow out times. So while each has done the same amount of laps +/-1 they may not meet the second criteria of a similair % of time on course, especially if the slower rider is the one who has done the extra lap think this will be very difficult to manage and unfair for teams where one rider might be significantly faster than the other(s) - will the be DQ'd
I question if the second 'rule' serves any purpose other than to complicate things when all riders are doing the same laps +/-1.
Bring back the days when racing was simple - get on, tag, and ride till you cant no more out and hope to beat your mates!
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riderideride
Likes Dirt
LAP FOR LAP! come on!! 
Mad Hatter
Likes Dirt
I can see this as getting very complicated. I have no ambitions of being at the pointy end of the field, but fully intend to give it my best effort to finish as hard as I can. What happens to a team of 2 where one rider suffers an injury early? Would that mean the other rider is therefore unable to complete any more laps except the +1 from the injured rider?
Sorry if this upsets anybody but so what if I do 2 - 1 laps with my wife as a team mate. If this is how we get out there on our bikes together isn`t that the point for most of us, bums on bikes? The way the rules read actually discourage us from competing together.
The discussion continues.
Cheers
MH
Sorry if this upsets anybody but so what if I do 2 - 1 laps with my wife as a team mate. If this is how we get out there on our bikes together isn`t that the point for most of us, bums on bikes? The way the rules read actually discourage us from competing together.
The discussion continues.
Cheers
MH
My understanding, think 80/20 or 70/30! If your team is doing 60/40 I'd think that would be ok. akashra did mention something about if you're not doing lap for lap you'll only be counted for however many laps you did within the rules. This is pretty easy to understand. The other thing to remember is that you all need to go back and re-read the thread. No offence intended.
akashra
Eats Squid
Still working on the precise wording, but the intent of the rule is that the workload is shared equally. It's there merely to protect the spirit of the competition - to remove those who have, for example, a fast male rider do eight laps to the females three laps, etc, beating out teams where the two did five and five, for example.
I hope people see and understand the spirit of the rule, and why it's necessary to put this kind of thing in writing - it's been there unwritten for years, but it's shown that people don't always respect unwritten rules, and are under no obligation to do so.
["Would that mean the other rider is therefore unable to complete any more laps except the +1 from the injured rider? "]
While it depends on the circumstances, I can safely say we are not stupid enough to not cater for this
I can think of two scenarios here which would be treated differently:
1 - Rider 1 goes out and does 4 laps, then rider 2 goes out and injures him/herself on their first lap.
2 - Riders alternate laps equally until the point at which a rider is injured.
I can tell you with certainty that a more favorable decision would be possible in the latter situation.
I want it to be clear that no team will even be disqualified for exceeding any lap quota - merely that some laps in excess could simply not be counted to the teams total lap count. It means that if you want, you're more than welcome to keep going out and doing laps even though you're not racing for position.
It's kinda like passing riders off the track at the start when everyone is banked up and queueing to get in to the singletrack. (yes, that too is addressed, even though we would hope everyone acts in a sportsmanlike manner).
On the other issue of event dates - yes, the Round 1, hosted by GMBC - see above; rounds two and three are tracking well and I'm in constant communication with the organisers at both Team Mt Beauty and Alpine Cycling Club. We're even seeing if we can work out something super special at the moment for round 2 - stay tuned. Albury are also as well prepared as they were in 2010, and are well and truly on track.
I can say that if you're planning time off work for any of these rounds, there's very little risk (outside of ridiculous uncontrollable weather, which I apologise but neither myself nor any organise can control ) to these events of their dates.
I hope people see and understand the spirit of the rule, and why it's necessary to put this kind of thing in writing - it's been there unwritten for years, but it's shown that people don't always respect unwritten rules, and are under no obligation to do so.
["Would that mean the other rider is therefore unable to complete any more laps except the +1 from the injured rider? "]
While it depends on the circumstances, I can safely say we are not stupid enough to not cater for this
I can think of two scenarios here which would be treated differently:
1 - Rider 1 goes out and does 4 laps, then rider 2 goes out and injures him/herself on their first lap.
2 - Riders alternate laps equally until the point at which a rider is injured.
I can tell you with certainty that a more favorable decision would be possible in the latter situation.
I want it to be clear that no team will even be disqualified for exceeding any lap quota - merely that some laps in excess could simply not be counted to the teams total lap count. It means that if you want, you're more than welcome to keep going out and doing laps even though you're not racing for position.
It's kinda like passing riders off the track at the start when everyone is banked up and queueing to get in to the singletrack. (yes, that too is addressed, even though we would hope everyone acts in a sportsmanlike manner).
On the other issue of event dates - yes, the Round 1, hosted by GMBC - see above; rounds two and three are tracking well and I'm in constant communication with the organisers at both Team Mt Beauty and Alpine Cycling Club. We're even seeing if we can work out something super special at the moment for round 2 - stay tuned. Albury are also as well prepared as they were in 2010, and are well and truly on track.
I can say that if you're planning time off work for any of these rounds, there's very little risk (outside of ridiculous uncontrollable weather, which I apologise but neither myself nor any organise can control
) to these events of their dates.
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pistonbroke
Eats Squid
I am fairly new to this Tim. So what are the rules, written or otherwise? I am usually towards the back of the pack and find it a bit frustrating when 50 riders seem to be just standing around waiting for someone to clear a stick. Castlemaine was bad for this on the first lap. And I did pass a few while I was walking off track. Is this against the rules or bad edique?
akashra
Eats Squid
If the commissaire really wanted to set an example, the commissaire could disqualify you on the groounds that you didn't re-enter the track at the same point you left. Its unlikely to ever happen though - the negative stigma and shame from others is generally seen as punishment and not worth the paperwork. I did however penalise a team at Bendigo last year for going straight under the chicane bunting at full speed in full view of everyone in the race village. And then got told off by MTBA because I had applied a time penalty, not outright disqualified the team. Somerules you have to use your head, not be draconian.
As for passing queued riders, it's just an ettiquite thing - if you reach single track behind 100 other riders, you get in line - not skirt around 30 of them. Poor starts are just part of racing. One of the lead riders binned it on the first corner at Castlemaine - he had to simply work his way through the field.
Benizmo
Likes Dirt
Passing at the start can be a grey area though. Castlemaine for example, the first single track is water run, very narrow and no passing unless you go off course which is a no-no. Beechworth on the other hand quickly has single track with technical sections with more than one line, I dont see a problem with taking another line to pass stopped riders who have unclipped.
You will often still get abused, and some riders may be able to ride the section but have just been too close and have had to unclip, but unfortunately that is just bad luck. I think as long as you are not a (considerably) slower rider it is OK in this circumstance, I guess the problem is making that judgment. But you will more often than not get abused while passing, funny though how you never see those riders again, probably because they sprinted just sprinted the first 2k at 110%
You will often still get abused, and some riders may be able to ride the section but have just been too close and have had to unclip, but unfortunately that is just bad luck. I think as long as you are not a (considerably) slower rider it is OK in this circumstance, I guess the problem is making that judgment. But you will more often than not get abused while passing, funny though how you never see those riders again, probably because they sprinted just sprinted the first 2k at 110%
1 Geelong Mountain Bike Club Crazy 6 You Yangs – Kurrajong Saturday, 12 February 2011
2 Team Mt Beauty Big Hill Mountain Bike Park Saturday, 5 March 2011
3 Alpine Cycling Club Bright 6 Hour Bright Saturday, 9 April 2011
4 TBA TBA Sunday, 22 May 2011
5 Albury/Wodonga Albury/Wodonga 6hr Nail Can Hill Saturday, 25 June 2011
6 Gippsland MTB Club Gippsland 6 Hour Blores Hill Sunday, 31 July 2011
7 TBA TBA TBA Sunday, 28 August 2011
8 Dirt Riders Rock Hop Dallas Brooks Sunday, 25 September 2011
9 TBA TBA TBA Sunday, 30 October 2011
Given that there is a clash with the Mt Buller Race / Mt Beauty race on the 5th March. What is the chance of having the last Round of the VES at MT. Buller? on the 30th October there may still be too much snow however if it could be delayed a month or two riders would be able to race at Mt Beauty on the 5th of march knowing that they can Race at MT Buller Later iin the Season. Word on the street is that the new trail at Buller is Awesome and if riders knew there was another race on at buller it would make it easier to go the Mt Beauty race. Mt beauty are a great club who work very hard and it would be disappointing for them if they didn't get the numbers they deserve for running a great race
2 Team Mt Beauty Big Hill Mountain Bike Park Saturday, 5 March 2011
3 Alpine Cycling Club Bright 6 Hour Bright Saturday, 9 April 2011
4 TBA TBA Sunday, 22 May 2011
5 Albury/Wodonga Albury/Wodonga 6hr Nail Can Hill Saturday, 25 June 2011
6 Gippsland MTB Club Gippsland 6 Hour Blores Hill Sunday, 31 July 2011
7 TBA TBA TBA Sunday, 28 August 2011
8 Dirt Riders Rock Hop Dallas Brooks Sunday, 25 September 2011
9 TBA TBA TBA Sunday, 30 October 2011
Given that there is a clash with the Mt Buller Race / Mt Beauty race on the 5th March. What is the chance of having the last Round of the VES at MT. Buller? on the 30th October there may still be too much snow however if it could be delayed a month or two riders would be able to race at Mt Beauty on the 5th of march knowing that they can Race at MT Buller Later iin the Season. Word on the street is that the new trail at Buller is Awesome and if riders knew there was another race on at buller it would make it easier to go the Mt Beauty race. Mt beauty are a great club who work very hard and it would be disappointing for them if they didn't get the numbers they deserve for running a great race
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akashra
Eats Squid
None.
It has already been proposed and discussed at great length with TMB. Mitta to Mt Beauty is also traditionally held on what is effectively the weekend of the 22rd October, which they deem too close.
TMB have made the decision to run on the 5th March weekend and accept that it will clash with Bike Buller. Unfortunately due to the sheer number of events on during February and March, no other date was workable for all parties.
It has already been proposed and discussed at great length with TMB. Mitta to Mt Beauty is also traditionally held on what is effectively the weekend of the 22rd October, which they deem too close.
TMB have made the decision to run on the 5th March weekend and accept that it will clash with Bike Buller. Unfortunately due to the sheer number of events on during February and March, no other date was workable for all parties.
akashra
Eats Squid
There are many venues we'd like to consider - believe me, venues such as Redesdale, Leongatha, Maryborough, Mansfield and many others have all been thrown around at one point or another, even Buller. Warrnambool and Mildura are both on the cards, and have organisers behind them. Buller has the biggest problem of requiring an organiser willing to go back there after the State XC Champs debacle a few years ago... a topic I'd rather not having to bring up again :/a round at Buller would be fantastic! a little silly that the best trails in the state are not included in a state championship.
JorgenY22
Likes Dirt
Akashra, thanks for pointing me to this thread - it looks like this year's Enduro series is going to be a great one. I'll be joining with the 30-39 solo riders, however don't look for me at the pointy end - I'll be amongst those enjoying the scenery (as the wombat 100km politely put it) on my non-racer full suspension bike -- but hopefully as the year progresses fitness levels etc will be improved and maybe I can look towards the mid field or something. Regardless it'll be fun I'm sure!
The W.A.F. is much, much higher if not staying overnight so there'll be some long days of driving & riding & driving back again, but it'll be great to experience so many new places - of the lot I've only done the Youies. Also, preparing for monthly events will be a great motivator not to slack off with the training.
The W.A.F. is much, much higher if not staying overnight so there'll be some long days of driving & riding & driving back again, but it'll be great to experience so many new places - of the lot I've only done the Youies. Also, preparing for monthly events will be a great motivator not to slack off with the training.
A.G.Thomas
Banned
????
Are the new rules available yet?
Seems that Bendigo has disappeared? Are they still having a six hour and will it clash with the series? Whats up?
Are the new rules available yet?