Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

rockmoose

his flabber is totally gastered
Call yourself carbon neutral because you've bought offsets to account for the office coffee machine.

 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Interesting. Does this thing have to be refilled with ammonia periodically? AFAIK that's the source material for the membrane tech.

 

rockmoose

his flabber is totally gastered
Interesting. Does this thing have to be refilled with ammonia periodically? AFAIK that's the source material for the membrane tech.

Still requires the storage of hydrogen gas, which is problematic for a number of reasons.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Still requires the storage of hydrogen gas, which is problematic for a number of reasons.
Yeah, that too. I feel like it's gonna cost a fair bit more than scaling up solar, adding wind and battery capacity to provide a standalone fail safe system that doesn't need a genny. It's also still a really inefficient system compared to direct renewable generation into batteries.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
I missed that one of the partners for the Hydrogen unit is Ampol. Still struggling to see how it can be economically viable.
 

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
I missed that one of the partners for the Hydrogen unit is Ampol. Still struggling to see how it can be economically viable.
Hydrogen is very popular among the fossil boys - for a start 99% of hydrogen production is currently made from gas and the whole idea of hydrogen filling stations replicates their existing business model.

No one outside of automakers freaking out about their impending ICE doom and the oil industry is serious about it as a transport solution.
 

Fred Nurk

No custom title here
How do you like them batteries?

What a great idea. I imagine the hydrogen and nuclear lobbyists are leaning hard on their pollie mates to put the kibosh on this.

There's been plenty of analysis of similar things as that Energy Vault bullshit, and unfortunately this is likely to be the same sort of thing. As I understand it, and it's been a while since I looked at Energy Vault, the required combination of both mass and elevation to do anything at any sort of useful scale makes shifting giant weights as a means of energy storage quite farcical.
 

Fred Nurk

No custom title here
Interesting. Does this thing have to be refilled with ammonia periodically? AFAIK that's the source material for the membrane tech.

Company I used to work for trialled a hydrogen fuel cell storage system that made hydrogen from water when powered by solar, and supplied electricity from the fuel cell when the sun went down. System looked really flash and had a Telco seriously interested in rolling it out to remote exchanges.
It never fucking worked properly and it's manufacturer eventually abandoned it. It was unable to function properly without the battery bank that it was meant to replace as the output response of fuel cells is woeful.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
No one outside of automakers freaking out about their impending ICE doom and the oil industry is serious about it as a transport solution.
Who else aside from the auto makes and oil companies is coming up with transport solutions. I remember years ago someone asked me about Nikolai (that flopped truck) I said the numbers look shit and unbelievable. Since then who else is on the scene that has a low emissions transport solution, genuinely curious.

In the long run aerospace will likely go biofuels, cars EV, but for long haul and mass transit, I can't see batteries being economical. Sure they might just absorb the costs i nthe name of the environemnt and eventually pass that onto the consumers.
 

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
Who else aside from the auto makes and oil companies is coming up with transport solutions. I remember years ago someone asked me about Nikolai (that flopped truck) I said the numbers look shit and unbelievable. Since then who else is on the scene that has a low emissions transport solution, genuinely curious.

In the long run aerospace will likely go biofuels, cars EV, but for long haul and mass transit, I can't see batteries being economical. Sure they might just absorb the costs i nthe name of the environemnt and eventually pass that onto the consumers.
Automakers were forced into it, partially by mandates but mostly by Tesla. I should qualify automakers as "laggard legacy automakers" as being H2 curious. The exception there being Hyundai - but like Japan there are some complex geopolitical reasons being that to do with their respective governments - which are in turn like Germany heavily influenced by their automakers... TLDR, its messy.

Anyway, aerospace will no go biofuels long term, nothing will. There isn't enough biomass, especially if you're needing to feed people and/or retain a healthy biosphere. No, where liquid fuels are a must (aerospace and aviation) it will need to be synthetic hydrocarbons via DAC and H2.

As for trucks, battery electric will be a game changer. It totally works and the operational costs in particular will ensure their bulk adoption.
 

Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
Who else aside from the auto makes and oil companies is coming up with transport solutions. I remember years ago someone asked me about Nikolai (that flopped truck) I said the numbers look shit and unbelievable. Since then who else is on the scene that has a low emissions transport solution, genuinely curious.

In the long run aerospace will likely go biofuels, cars EV, but for long haul and mass transit, I can't see batteries being economical. Sure they might just absorb the costs i nthe name of the environemnt and eventually pass that onto the consumers.
Rail should be the option for long haul and mass transit and then it would be electric and supplied by the grid. We think too short term and just truck everything, it's not very efficient. You only need trucks for short haul at the rail terminus.
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Rail should be the option for long haul and mass transit and then it would be electric and supplied by the grid. We think too short term and just truck everything, it's not very efficient. You only need trucks for short haul at the rail terminus.
I've actually been involved in this space in a past life.

The reason why rail isn't used more is the interchange friction. I.e. it takes ages and costs a lot to get containers off trains and onto trucks and vice versa. This is exacerbated by the cluster fuck that is the Sydney rail network, especially at the Hawkesbury and Bulli Pass bottlenecks. The Brisbane river makes a mess of the Brisbane rail network too.

The cost to fix these issues is huge and no one is willing to cough up. So without some big carrots and sticks like carbon taxes and pay by the km road charging, we get the sub optimal solution.


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Haakon

has an accommodating arse
I've actually been involved in this space in a past life.

The reason why rail isn't used more is the interchange friction. I.e. it takes ages and costs a lot to get containers off trains and onto trucks and vice versa. This is exacerbated by the cluster fuck that is the Sydney rail network, especially at the Hawkesbury and Bulli Pass bottlenecks. The Brisbane river makes a mess of the Brisbane rail network too.

The cost to fix these issues is huge and no one is willing to cough up. So without some big carrots and sticks like carbon taxes and pay by the km road charging, we get the sub optimal solution.


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Its going to need some (shock horror!!!) forward thinking and big infrastructure spending! But as Utopia tells us, Australia is not so hot at such things...

"interchange friction" - great term, I'm totally using that!
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Anyway, aerospace will no go biofuels long term, nothing will. There isn't enough biomass, especially if you're needing to feed people and/or retain a healthy biosphere. No, where liquid fuels are a must (aerospace and aviation) it will need to be synthetic hydrocarbons via DAC and H2.
I'm hardly an expert but my understanding was that methane from DAC wasn't going to cut it with current technologies. Jet fuel is essentially kerosene on steroids so you needed a much longer carbon backbone from oils or fatty acids.



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Haakon

has an accommodating arse
I'm hardly an expert but my understanding was that methane from DAC wasn't going to cut it with current technologies. Jet fuel is essentially kerosene on steroids so you needed a much longer carbon backbone from oils or fatty acids.



Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk
DAC is a long way from commercial, only real demonstration project is running in Iceland. But it gives you a source of CO2 that you can combine with "green" hydrogen to make syngas, which is turned into literally any hydrocarbon you like from methane to lubricating oils and anything in between.
 

slowmick

38-39"
A friend in the heavy transport space is closely watching the development of battery technology and swapping battery packs on route. If the truck industry can be better that the bike industry and standardise on a swappable battery it seems electric trucks can be made to work.
 

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
A friend in the heavy transport space is closely watching the development of battery technology and swapping battery packs on route. If the truck industry can be better that the bike industry and standardise on a swappable battery it seems electric trucks can be made to work.
Im not as across the trucking game as the car industry, but my understanding is that charging times are pretty much at the point where you charge on the mandated rest periods, and the range will get you as far as you're allowed to drive in one sitting.
 
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