Headsets are confusing when you're a bit dim....

johnny

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Need to by a headset for the Hyrax (because I fucking lost a bunch of parts...).

The Pyga webiste says: All of our framesets fit a Cane Creek 40series ZS44/ZS56 tapered headset. https://eu.pygamountainbikes.com/support/faq/?v=79cba1185463

I'm running an RS Lyrik ultimate, which has steerer dimensions of 1.5 tapered - 1.8 tapered - https://www.mtbdirect.com.au/Assets/Manuals/ROCKSHOX-2021-FORK-SPECS.pdf - am I reading it right in that the top of the steerer is 1.5 inches and the bottom 1.8? That would mean at the top, the steerer is 38.1mm and a the bottom it is 45.72mm. Have I got that correct?

Yet, Cane Creek only provide 40 series headsets for 28.6mm steerers: https://canecreek.com/product/forty/

I've read through this, but am not sure if I've just confused myself even more - https://www.bikeradar.com/features/the-ultimate-guide-to-headsets/

I'm clearly misunderstanding things here, can anyone tell me where?

Was just about to pull the trigger on these, but I'm not sure of they're the right kit:
www.dirtworksb2b.com.au

40 Series Tapered Assembly ZS44/28.6/H8|ZS56/40 BLACK (BAA0533K) - Cane Creek

40 Series Tapered Assembly ZS44/28.6/H8|ZS56/40 BLACK (BAA0533K) - Cane Creek
www.dirtworksb2b.com.au www.dirtworksb2b.com.au
www.dirtworksb2b.com.au

HEADSET SPACERS CLASSIC HP Silver 28.6mm/2x10mm+3x5mm/Bag (33075347004) - Ritchey

HEADSET SPACERS CLASSIC HP Silver 28.6mm/2x10mm+3x5mm/Bag (33075347004) - Ritchey
www.dirtworksb2b.com.au www.dirtworksb2b.com.au
 
S

shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
So a tapered steerer is top 1-1/8” and bottom 1.5”. ZS is for Zero Stack. Unless you have a wacky fork off a Giant OD2 or some other one off special.

So you have muddled yourself with the 1.8 bottom and 1.5 top.

Headset you have linked is correct.
 
LPG

LPG

likes thicc birds
johnny said:
Need to by a headset for the Hyrax (because I fucking lost a bunch of parts...).

The Pyga webiste says: All of our framesets fit a Cane Creek 40series ZS44/ZS56 tapered headset. https://eu.pygamountainbikes.com/support/faq/?v=79cba1185463

I'm running an RS Lyrik ultimate, which has steerer dimensions of 1.5 tapered - 1.8 tapered - https://www.mtbdirect.com.au/Assets/Manuals/ROCKSHOX-2021-FORK-SPECS.pdf - am I reading it right in that the top of the steerer is 1.5 inches and the bottom 1.8? That would mean at the top, the steerer is 38.1mm and a the bottom it is 45.72mm. Have I got that correct?

Yet, Cane Creek only provide 40 series headsets for 28.6mm steerers: https://canecreek.com/product/forty/

I've read through this, but am not sure if I've just confused myself even more - https://www.bikeradar.com/features/the-ultimate-guide-to-headsets/

I'm clearly misunderstanding things here, can anyone tell me where?

Was just about to pull the trigger on these, but I'm not sure of they're the right kit:
www.dirtworksb2b.com.au

40 Series Tapered Assembly ZS44/28.6/H8|ZS56/40 BLACK (BAA0533K) - Cane Creek

40 Series Tapered Assembly ZS44/28.6/H8|ZS56/40 BLACK (BAA0533K) - Cane Creek
www.dirtworksb2b.com.au www.dirtworksb2b.com.au
www.dirtworksb2b.com.au

HEADSET SPACERS CLASSIC HP Silver 28.6mm/2x10mm+3x5mm/Bag (33075347004) - Ritchey

HEADSET SPACERS CLASSIC HP Silver 28.6mm/2x10mm+3x5mm/Bag (33075347004) - Ritchey
www.dirtworksb2b.com.au www.dirtworksb2b.com.au
Click to expand...
The RS datasheet is saying that it is available in both tapered 1.5" (the common version I'm certain you will have - 1.5" dia bottom race, 1 .125" top) or 1.8" tapered ( 1.8" bottom, presumably 1.125" top).

Any zs44 /zs56 headset to suit a tapered steertube should work
 
johnny

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Thank you.

I wish they'd actually say 1 1/2" - 1 1/8" on the fucking spec sheet - even if they'd just said 1 1/2", I'd still haven been confused about the dimensions of the top of the steerer. Really annoyed that I just spent an hour trying to work out WTF was going on because the information supplied could have been clearer or more complete.

Most of the time I try and do the reading and learn for myself instead of just asking others to spell it out for me. Should have just been a lazy prick from the start!!

Thanks, folks, appreciated.
 
Litenbror

Litenbror

Eats Squid
johnny said:
Thank you.

I wish they'd actually say 1 1/2" - 1 1/8" on the fucking spec sheet - even if they'd just said 1 1/2", I'd still haven been confused about the dimensions of the top of the steerer. Really annoyed that I just spent an hour trying to work out WTF was going on because the information supplied could have been clearer or more complete.

Most of the time I try and do the reading and learn for myself instead of just asking others to spell it out for me. Should have just been a lazy prick from the start!!

Thanks, folks, appreciated.
Click to expand...
I've got a few cane creek 40 spares that might work for you if you want to give them a try. Come to think of it I probably have a complete set, will check the parts bin if you want?
 
The Duckmeister

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
Just as a general addendum, "Series 40" is simply a spec level in Cane Creek's range, just like various drivetrain group levels; the number itself means basically nothing.

Some years ago, Cane Creek had the good sense to suggest an uncommonly standardised nomenclature for headsets, open to the industry, although industry adoption was somewhat patchy. There are three basic headset formats; integrated, where the bearing fit directly into seats machined or moulded into the frame. These have an IS prefix in the CC nomenclature. Then there are variously-known semi-integrated, internal or zero-stack headsets, which have cups pressed into the head tube, then the bearings fitted into the cups. This type has a ZS prefix. Finally there is the external cup or EC-type headset, which locates the bearings outside the head tube, effectively increasing head tube length; this setup also allows fatter steerer in relatively small head tubes. In all cases, the number connected to the letter code refers to the bore diameter of the head tube.

It's not a perfect system though; oddities such as Giant's OD2, which has a 1 1/4" (31.8mm) upper steerer can slip through because they're still a ZS44 upper frame fit, but differ in other diameters, however the headset's spec chart should state if it's for 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" upper steerer.
 
Last edited:
link1896

link1896

Mr Greenfield
The Duckmeister said:
Just as a general addendum, "Series 40" is simply a spec level in Cane Creek's range, just like various drivetrain group levels; the number itself means basically nothing.

Some years ago, Cane Creek had the good sense to suggest an uncommonly standardised nomenclature for headsets, open to the industry, although industry adoption was somewhat patchy. There are three basic headset formats; integrated, where the bearing fit directly into seats machined or moulded into the frame. These have an IS prefix in the CC nomenclature. Then there are variously-known semi-integrated, internal or zero-stack headsets, which have cups pressed into the head tube, then the bearings fitted into the cups. This type has a ZS prefix. Finally there is the external cup or EC-type headset, which locates the bearings outside the head tube, effectively increasing head tube length; this setup also allows fatter steerer in relatively small head tubes. In all cases, the number connected to the letter code refers to the bore diameter of the head tube.

It's not a perfect system though; oddities such as Giant's OD2, which has a 1 1/4" (31.8mm) upper steerer can slip through because they're still a ZS44 upper frame fit, but differ in other diameters, however the headset's spec chart should state if it's for 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" upper steerer.
Click to expand...
Did you notice CC pulled the headset finder wizard from their site? At one point the banner was something like “wow, we didn’t realise how tricky and complicated this would get when we started the Standardised Headset Identification System way back in the day”. The wizard was a look up table for bike frames. Maintaining a database sucks.


Now it’s replaced by a pretty good graphic walking you through the process

 
The Duckmeister

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
I had noticed the headset finder had gone, didn't know of its replacement though. I'll have a squizz at the new version.

The big problem, particularly with IS headsets is the various bearing depths, bevel heights and angles; some bearings might be 7mm depth, others might be 8mm. Some have a shallow bevel, others deeper; then 36° or 45° bevels, not always the same for inner & outer.... So frame fit in particular is a tad critical. The rest fits within the particular headset package, so should be fine unless there is some real frame oddness.
 
pink poodle

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
I'd seen the 1.8 taper starting to pop up a little and I was very confused by its appearance. So @johnny I don't think you should be too hard on yourself in this case. If they had put a line spacing in and used @Flow-Rider's super boost things would be a lot clearer. You shouldn't feel limited to just using can't creek headsets either. While hey are good, there are plenty of other suitable options at all budget levels.

I'm so glad a potential new standard is emerging. How much stiffer are these 1.8 forks going to be?
 
PJO

PJO

in me vL comy
pink poodle said:
I'm so glad a potential new standard is emerging. How much stiffer are these 1.8 forks going to be?
Click to expand...
Wasn't this cooked up just so that E bike headtubes looked more in proportion, more aesthetically pleasing, and also easier to shape those oversized downtubes to mate with a larger headtube.
Didn't think there was much in it for actual stiffness...
 
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