Fox- is it just the short way of saying 'sub-standard suspension'?
- Thread starter shake_rattle_and_ roll
- Start date
ozzybmx
taking a shit with my boobs out
Duh....didn't own any from before 06/07 and borrowed other peoples for the next 7 years till 2013 :thumb:
shake_rattle_and_ roll
Pumpin'
Fair call. Clarification required for you pair- Fox forks & (EDIT: coil) shocks were the items I completely did away with after 06/07. Took a 3yr sabbatical & went back to the keeping a bunch of simple hardtails (SS & AMs/ cromos, 853s & alloys) through that period before bringing a duallie back into the quiver circa 2010, in time where RP23s were really your only performance option for mid-travel trail bikes & anything other than a crazy linear rate out of a factory air can was debatable. Rode the RP23 for 12-18mths (which was frustrating AF) until the Monarch RC3+ was established & proven, then got rid of the RP23 to another RBer.
So now that that's mine out of the way, how's that Fox history worked out for you two since you've popped in & contributed?
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ozzybmx
taking a shit with my boobs out
Been fully rigid for quite a few years, just got another FS bike and the Fox forks creak like shit, so all fine and dandy here...
Cropduster
Likes Dirt
i have a pair of cheapo oem rockshox xc30 on my hardtail, they're ok, but very little tunability in them which is fair enough considering the price, my F/S bike came std with Fox 32 FIT/CTD, which again are ok but not perfect out of the box, i'm having the same issues most are, set them up for supple low speed bump absorption and they blow through on high speed and vice versa, but i can live with them until i upgrade to the FIT4 option.
I'm happy with what i use overall because i have a realistic expectation of what you get with suspension out of the box, it's naive to think that buying suspension will magically work for _your_ needs straight up, bike geometry, rider style, rider weight, terrain, rider skill and speed etc. all effect how the suspension performs, it's adjustable and tuneable for a reason. The manufacturer (whoever it may be) will develop a product that they believe will suit the majority of it's customers within the tuning range of the internals, if you're lucky enough to be one of those happy days, if not and you want better performance you have to pay for changes.
All parts supplied as oem are built down to a price, they have a contract to supply X amount of units that will work within certain parameters, profit margin is the focus here but at least the gear _is_ tuneable if the end user wants to adjust it, and i don't mind FOX limiting who works on their product, there's much more to customer service than just supplying parts and tools, there's only a very small percentage of owners that have the knowledge and understanding to correctly service their suspension, they're protecting their reputation from ham fisted tinkerers who fuck it up then blame the product.
It's also worth noting that most who buy bikes with adjustable suspension have no clue how the adjusters effect what the suspension does let alone how to change it to make it better for them, so manufacturers dumb it down to a price point and for those who want to fine tune it it's there.
My bike came with FOX forks, i didn't make the decision to go out and buy them, but if i did, your assumption that choosing a product you dislike makes me a mongoloid is offensive, there's 1000's of brands to cater for everyones preferences, you don't like FOX? fine, i'm curious to your motivation for starting a thread purely to rubbish a brand and the customers who like/use it?
I'm happy with what i use overall because i have a realistic expectation of what you get with suspension out of the box, it's naive to think that buying suspension will magically work for _your_ needs straight up, bike geometry, rider style, rider weight, terrain, rider skill and speed etc. all effect how the suspension performs, it's adjustable and tuneable for a reason. The manufacturer (whoever it may be) will develop a product that they believe will suit the majority of it's customers within the tuning range of the internals, if you're lucky enough to be one of those happy days, if not and you want better performance you have to pay for changes.
All parts supplied as oem are built down to a price, they have a contract to supply X amount of units that will work within certain parameters, profit margin is the focus here but at least the gear _is_ tuneable if the end user wants to adjust it, and i don't mind FOX limiting who works on their product, there's much more to customer service than just supplying parts and tools, there's only a very small percentage of owners that have the knowledge and understanding to correctly service their suspension, they're protecting their reputation from ham fisted tinkerers who fuck it up then blame the product.
It's also worth noting that most who buy bikes with adjustable suspension have no clue how the adjusters effect what the suspension does let alone how to change it to make it better for them, so manufacturers dumb it down to a price point and for those who want to fine tune it it's there.
My bike came with FOX forks, i didn't make the decision to go out and buy them, but if i did, your assumption that choosing a product you dislike makes me a mongoloid is offensive, there's 1000's of brands to cater for everyones preferences, you don't like FOX? fine, i'm curious to your motivation for starting a thread purely to rubbish a brand and the customers who like/use it?
Mr Crudley
Glock in your sock
This is fair point. I have some early Fox Floats from before the era of the buyout.
They work fine after you adjust them to your liking. It is pretty easy to make them feel harsh or sloppy with too much or too little compression/rebound/threshold. Although they aren't the lower end from that period, it still takes a bit of time until you find the right combination.
A faster compression and slightly slower rebound with a low bump threshold makes them all buttery for me. The Fox adjustments do work well enough and you can feel the difference with one click. Regular oil changes and new seals every so often don't hurt either no matter who makes your forks.
Saying that, I'd be going for some RS's if I had the chance to upgrade now. Every manufacturer has a golden period which usually doesn't last forever after they sellout or discover cost cutting like replacing schwanky bits with plastic etc.
rowdyflat
chez le médecin
Right on Mr Crudley , totally agree I have old Fox stuff and its still really good.
Recently I deliberately bought an old as new Float Fit fork - its really smooth.
Most the people I ride with dont even know to put air in their forks or rear shocks.
Its only when you see them bobbing along up hill + hitting their feet on everything that I tell them they can use my shock pump !!
Its no wonder Fox dumbed it down when they reduced the quality , Fox will probably recover or Manitou or someone else will take their place.
Unfortunately one of the ways that private equity companies try to make money is to trade on Fox's former great reputation and prices but slash costs and therefore quality.
It works for a while the money rolls in.
Recently I deliberately bought an old as new Float Fit fork - its really smooth.
Most the people I ride with dont even know to put air in their forks or rear shocks.
Its only when you see them bobbing along up hill + hitting their feet on everything that I tell them they can use my shock pump !!
Its no wonder Fox dumbed it down when they reduced the quality , Fox will probably recover or Manitou or someone else will take their place.
Unfortunately one of the ways that private equity companies try to make money is to trade on Fox's former great reputation and prices but slash costs and therefore quality.
It works for a while the money rolls in.
shake_rattle_and_ roll
Pumpin'
My "motivation" for starting the thread was to stimulate conversation about Fox Suspension & to seek clarification over whether:
a) there was merit to the widely published product deficits & the user groans, which have been a recurring theme over a number of years now
b) my own experiences & perceptions of Fox were unique or whether it was shared with a reasonable percentage of people
c) anyone else found it strange that a global mutli-million dollar operation, where previously developing & delivering excellent (some would say, unrivaled) dampening in-house, were now being content with their product delivery to give an entire business base to companies like Vorsprung, Push, Mojo etcetc to make Fox products & technology function as they were intended or as they "should" (at that upper-echelon of fork)
d) the performance out of the box justifies the expense/premium price tag at a non-OEM level, relative to a quality/serviceability/support ratio
e) there is a clear presence of a die-hard "Fox Suspension for Life" culture among riders, however inexplicable it clearly is to me
Now clearly my thread has touched you in the tenders & caused you to take exception (& I'd hesitate to suggest that you're a Fox-for-Life fanboy), despite the obviousness of the the thread's subject matter, clear position & your Please Explain defensiveness. Going by your own experience with Fox you don't sound like some of the riders I know who've gone back year after year & repeatedly 'burnt' themselves (yes, my perception), so you don't fit into the mongoloid category of rider I had in mind & can relieve yourself of the burden. I was pretty open in stating that pre-2007 I'd had very pleasing results as a Fox user, & I asked to be corrected on any misconceptions I might have re their last 8yrs of product & technology development, but my thread was indeed a pointed one bluntly asking for peoples own experiences & feedback on the aforementioned.
The Duckmeister
Has a juicy midrange
Can't be arsed digging out the exact quote, but it was pointed out before that a big reason why the aftermarket tuners exist is because there is a lot that can be done to set the fork or shock up for the individual customer. Given the vast array of riders, what they weigh, what they ride & all that, it's simply not possible for the factory to set every fork or shock to suit everybody out of the box. So they and the OEM customers tune things to an average.The aftermarket tuners work with each customer on an individual basis, so you get the performance tweaked personally. The inbuilt tuneability, lacking from a great many RS products, contributes a fair bit to the price premium because there's a lot of extra development work to make that stuff. Of course that doesn't excuse the poor quality that Fox undeniably suffered for a while, but none of them are perfect.
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mtn_bike_geek
Super Moderator
I found night and day difference between my old Monarch Plus R and the new Fox Float X2 I upgraded it to. It seems they actually did proper R&D on the Float X2 and the DHX2. Couldn't pull me away from my Pike RTC3 if you tried though!
DMan
shawly the least hangeriest guy on rotorburn
I was happy enough with my Factory 34s until I upgraded the Factory CTD to an RC3 plus Debonair. Then the harshness of the 34s was very evident. But i've just sent them away finally (after saving!) for the FIT4 damper upgrade and a full service. Hopefully I've made the right move (second option was the Vorsprung TLA upgrade- But another $100) and that will pull them more into line with the RC3. At $400 it was still a lot cheaper than getting Pikes which I couldn't afford...
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Cropduster
Likes Dirt
That's all fair enough, but it came across initially as brand muck raking and while i do own FOX on one bike i'm not a fanboy for life, i do understand the idiosyncrasies of suspension enough to know that no matter how good/expensive it is it can't possibly cater to everyone and that some are going to have to modify their gear to get what they expect from it, while pointing out that most of the MTB buyers would be hard pressed to know where the rebound adjuster is.
I haven't been around MTB's long enough to have seen the comings and goings of different brand qc, i do know that forums in general attract those who want to whine and complain about the smallest issue purely because they have an audience, the issues some proclaim to be life changing are nothing more than a minor irritation at best in the real world, in short, people blow everything out of proportion and are much more critical on here than they would be in real life, generally.
I haven't taken exception to your thread or posts, but your timeline looked off and i was curious to see wether you were or were not using the gear lately, and yes, i believe the quality of the product out of the box justifies the price, the serviceability and support is there for what i want as well, the performance? well that depends on all the parameters that dictate whether the std set up works for a particular rider, in my case, sort of, but i'm happy to pay for a custom set up with a product that is at least capable to have it done.
Cheers
Nice choice! I've had a couple sets of pikes but have been thoroughly impressed by the new FIT4 34's.
DMan
shawly the least hangeriest guy on rotorburn
I hope so. I would have loved to have been able to afford the air spring upgrade too but that's another $250. The chap from Cyclinic says it should be quite a noticeable difference...
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
For those prices it would want to be. With the extreme cost of aftermarket tuning for fox products, their original price needs to come down significantly. Look at the RRP on their forks, add the various DMan up grades, and...you'd probably come out ahead paying Link to make forks for you from scratch.
Flow-Rider
Burner
You should know how the mountain biking world revolves around the solar system by now. You pay big bucks for a new bike that at the time you bought is fruited with technology, 6 weeks later they bring some component or part that is 6 times better than what you have. Inevitably it leaves you no choice but to replace half ya friggin god dam bike just to fit this you beaut part ya need or drop another million or so on a new bike.
link1896
Mr Greenfield
pink poodle
気が狂っている男
I've seen this or something very similar in my very early mountain biking days. It made me not want to ride.
moorey
call me Mia
But it looks so modern. Also, it's future proof...both V brake AND cantilever compatible.
DMan
shawly the least hangeriest guy on rotorburn
Halleluyah!! I hear you brother...
I think it's worse than that now though. Unless you pay an absolute shitload of money you just don't even get a bike where the components are properly matched. I can't get over how many new bikes I see at $5K that have great pikes on the front and a base evolution fox on the back as an example...
I couldn't afford to replace my bike really because the upgrades would kill me.
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