Yarra Trails regulars

[Pastavore]

It would be no fun at all with a clogged 100% ST course and limited passing opportunity

I think that is why JD is so pro the event. His plan is to sprint off the front from the gun, then block the track with his elbow out and his XXL frame, and hold off the whippets for 6hrs.

 

[mars mtb]

Opportunity?

Guys, Big JD is showing passion, he busts his arse with a few others out there so he is putting his tools where his mouth is :rockon: I am waiting for the day when a rider tells Big JD and other volunteers what he thinks they should be doing to the trails because he doesn't like it, if it is anything like my reaction when someone did that to us out at SG then it will make for a pi55er of a read, suffice to say I went off my nut, the guy then crashed twice in the next 20m as he was unable to clip in for his getaway and was a tad regretting his words :madgrin:

This could however be the door of opportunity knocking;

If PV are giving the thumbs up for this and other events this could be a good trigger to instigate PV engagement ongoing for maintenance.

The conversation could loosely go like this;

Hey PV what is the fee for access to run events on Hans?
Did you make the trails and do you maintain them?
Oh, ok, you don’t, that’s cool, it was a leading question, but how about we get together because the trails are looked after by the rider for the rider via donated time and tools?
We’d love to hookup in an official capacity, run maintenance working bees, rerouting of some lines for sustainability, and you have some super tools and machinery beyond our stuff that could make things easier.
We’d be happy to engage in a consultative relationship and it will cost you SFA.
That way the trails will remain great to ride, you have specific contacts that can communicate in an even standing with riders for all manner of requirements, and hey, you can run more events and make more coin because the trails will be in cracker condition more often than not, whaddayasay PV?

I have my hands full elsewhere on dirt so will refrain from making the contact, but it could just be the trigger it needs.

 

[gcouyant]

+1

A PV sanctioned/organised trails maintenance day, where they supply some raw materials (rocks, soil, gravel, plants) and equipment, post-race would certainly be worth the race occurring.

I cheer the efforts of all YT riders who perform trail maintenance. I hope with said materials and more hands on deck a lot more could be achieved.

Nuke, forgive me but I just picked your post to respond to and expand on the Candlebark trails.

These trails are natural terrain and they need to remain that way. I personally would fight efforts to turn the trails into groomed MTB trails that are typical of MTB parks around Melbourne. Back in 2011 with the help of PV the Candlebark trail network became authorised and are maintained as natural terrain trails. This is rare.

The over use issue is one that came to a head several years ago during the prolonged wet and with Lysterfield and You Yangs shut, poor old Candlebark copped a flogging. Natural trails always fare better than manufactured trails and even though we had so many riders out there day and night, the trails held up reasonably well. Much of the maintenance was to overcome poor rider behaviour and that peeved me. Puddle in the track, no problem I'll just ride around it. Stick on the track, no problem, I'll ride around it. Track looking like it isn't groomed smooth, no problem, I'll ride around it. You get the drift. It's those who consume the trails just like any other commodity (and MTB parks) that creates so much of a problem for the trails, us and PV.

We came so close to losing our trails back then because of the pressure from commercial operators to conduct tours and training here.

It is heartening to see so may of us here feeling ownership - that's great. So, back to this 6hr event. There may be a few alterations before then but even so, the number of participants may be a big issue. The exact routing may not follow the existing trail in order to improve flow and reduce potential for bottlenecks. Much work is needed to keep riders on the trail and not be tempted to go off-trail to avoid slower riders.

Work has already started to improve the safety of the trails but at this stage it's more to do with removing obstacles that may cause injury. You may notice that large rocks that had been placed on the side of the track are being moved away and replaced with "stuff' to keep it natural and not kill the rider if they make a mistake.

While we're at it, let me post some examples of the rocks that have now gone:

A couple of other things.

Please don't block the RHS path. The log roll may have to go if we are to continue to use the left trail. We can do a lot better than that bundle of logs too so please don't get bent about it.

Please don't pinch fallen wood from this tree.

Phew... If we play this right and make the right noises then we will gain. I suspect that there will be plenty of first time "racers" so we must be very careful to make everybody feel welcome. Acknowledging a fellow rider and to share the fun is the best thing that we can do. This is a big step forward.

Cast your minds back to the begining of this thread and where we were with the state of trails and PV view of our trails. We have come a long long way. Heck, I remember some thirty years ago being chased by a ranger when I was sprung cutting new trails. Bugger took my trail shovel. Now we ride authorised trails in peace - but still need to cut more.....

 

[CharlieDontSurf]

George I suspect(and hope in some way) the people who are placing all the rocks and sharp trees around the loop are not on here. I regularly remove stuff similar to what you posted. But someone keeps putting it back.
Have you spoken to PV or the race organisers George?

 

[Big JD]

So Mate these natural trails are not to be altered or fortified in anyway to handle the traffic or conditions. How do you feel about the rock drainage?

Let's remove the logs- it was only temp - it's ugly.

No one wants the commercialization of trails. I can't stand the cookie cutter approach- it bores the shit out of me

 

[jathanas]

Charlie I've been crying out for years about the spear-like branches placed beside the trail e.g. the stuff around the GSB section in Hans. It's a disaster waiting to happen. Plain dangerous. It's not natural, and it doesn't exist anywhere else in such a blatantly negligent manner. Some poor bastard is going to get skewered.

George is right that there have been efforts to commercialize Hans in the past. If they did decide to do it, and committed properly we might now have 15km of trails there instead of the 6. The flip-side is that they'd have closed anything outside Candlebark.

I'm uncertain about this event being a great thing. It has potential to augment what's already there, but I believe it won't. That's because event participation is down everywhere, so this is unlikely to raise enough money to contribute to trail-building in any meaningful way.

Hans loop is not getting any fresher, and there's only a small amount of traffic that the 6km of trails can cope with.

 

[Beej1]

Nuke, forgive me but I just picked your post to respond to and expand on the Candlebark trails.

These trails are natural terrain and they need to remain that way. I personally would fight efforts to turn the trails into groomed MTB trails that are typical of MTB parks around Melbourne.

No probs.

Just so its clear - I am all for the trails staying as they were many, many moons ago when I think I first met up with you for a ride there. Its a highway in comparison now.

When I suggest maintenance (with no idea how to do it, but with much ability to move earth if directed how to do it proper like) I mean 'to get it back to how it was', restoring narrow trail, revegetating eroded areas etc.

 

[Big JD]

Nuke, forgive me but I just picked your post to respond to and expand on the Candlebark trails.

These trails are natural terrain and they need to remain that way. I personally would fight efforts to turn the trails into groomed MTB trails that are typical of MTB parks around Melbourne. Back in 2011 with the help of PV the Candlebark trail network became authorised and are maintained as natural terrain trails. This is rare.

What do you mean by authorised- who is responsible for the trails. It is almost 2015- when was this information going to be communicated



The over use issue is one that came to a head several years ago during the prolonged wet and with Lysterfield and You Yangs shut, poor old Candlebark copped a flogging. Natural trails always fare better than manufactured trails and even though we had so many riders out there day and night, the trails held up reasonably well. Much of the maintenance was to overcome poor rider behaviour and that peeved me.

I spoke to a Parks staffer who basically said he was so appalled in what had been done to the park and how MTBers could be so selfish and destructive. That we hadn't closed the trails was irresponsible.



We came so close to losing our trails back then because of the pressure from commercial operators to conduct tours and training here.

There where stakeholders interested in holding woman's skills sessions and others that wanted to develop the trails. Basically all ideas were thrown out due to the fact that Parks didn't want to commit and there was disunity in the stakeholders. All concerned parties could not get their shit together. You almost lost it to the state it was in rather than the commercial interests.



. Now we ride authorised trails in peace - but still need to cut more.....

Who what when how. With all due respect George- it seems that its your way or no way. You have a plan for trails on public land - it cant be managed by one person. I believe a group should be formed to represent the interests of MTBers in the area. This group needs to be more open minded and proactive.

 

[jathanas]

Who what when how. With all due respect George- it seems that its your way or no way. You have a plan for trails on public land - it cant be managed by one person. I believe a group should be formed to represent the interests of MTBers in the area. This group needs to be more open minded and proactive.

100% agree, again with all due respect to George.

The premise that the YTs are "natural" and worth preserving in their current state is wrong IMHO.

They're ordinary at best, and they happen to be in a state of decline. They also exist in a grey zone as far as being legal goes (good luck w' insurance if you have an accident on Hans Loop).

Yes places like Forrest can feel too manufactured in places, but I like the concept of dedicated MTB trails. I joined the Warrandyte MTB club in the hope that we'd make progress along those lines, but that hasn't happened and is not likely to as far as I'm aware.

 

[gcouyant]

Good stuff, there's some passion here.

There are many stakeholders and each with their own agenda. Those who are opposed to off-path cycling have the time, funds and most importantly the influence to force their point and initiate change.

The *only* reason that we still have those trails is because there is a degree of harmony to *not* turn it into an MTB park.

Several years ago PV had drawn up plans to create Candlebark MTB park and whilst it was an exciting plan, it was a plan that had huge community backlash. The result would be that we would be pushed into a pocket of the park, lilydale topping paths running right behind the back fences of existing housing. Some of us here were part of that process and the information is still up on the friends of yarra trails forum.

I rode Candlebark a couple of times this week and yes there is a good deal of drainage work that needs to occur. JD, your rock drainage work is spot-on. If there is enthusiasm to do this then maybe we kick FoYT in the guts again. This is a group dedicated to the trails - not an activity. The minute we put an activity label on it then we immediately alienate the other parties who have a different mindset.

Regarding the prolonged wet of several years ago, every man and his dog had an opinion. The tracks recovered well though. Some tracks were roped off for short periods but it was a struggle to keep riders from pulling it down and riding through.

Now to the most important issue. That is unity of interested parties. If we have people who want to turn this into groomed MTB trails then that point of view should be listened to. I for one enjoy a bit of loose rock and challenging (but not life threatening) natural trail. The reason many people enjoy these trails is because they have a certain feel. The trails aren't particularly well planned, routed or executed but the feel good. There's enough gumby stuff to challenge proper fast riders but not try to kill the young novice. It has what MTB parks lack. That said, the high speeds of single use MTB parks will never be appropriate at Candlebark.

January is a quiet time so much can be achieved.

Just back to that 6hr enduro, they have a "get involved" link. Perhaps they already have this under way.

 

[gnarly_rider]

Just back to that 6hr enduro, they have a "get involved" link. Perhaps they already have this under way.

I hope their linking of that link to a webpage/email address is "under way". It doesn't seem to be connected/linked to anything?

 

[mtb101]

have a yarra trails ride planned sunday, starting at Lillydale about 50k/1000metres going along rail trail then turning off to some single track. social pace. if anyone wants to ride, let me know. start probably 8-9 am.

 

[jathanas]

I think we should all be a little more ambitious about what can be achieved at Candlebark. We want dedicated MTB trails and with the right amount of imagination we can get support for our vision from local business (cafes in James St etc). It is possible to create momentum.

If the Plenty Gorge MTB advocates can do it, there's no reason why it can't happen in Templestowe. What happened in the past w' Candlebark stays there, and shouldn't taint or constraint what is possible today.

We shouldn't aim for less.

 

[Big JD]

Jim people need to be engaged, open minded and proactive- cant all agree on a strategy.

 

[gcouyant]

I think we should all be a little more ambitious about what can be achieved at Candlebark. We want dedicated MTB trails and with the right amount of imagination we can get support for our vision from local business (cafes in James St etc). It is possible to create momentum.

If the Plenty Gorge MTB advocates can do it, there's no reason why it can't happen in Templestowe. What happened in the past w' Candlebark stays there, and shouldn't taint or constraint what is possible today.

We shouldn't aim for less.

Jimbo yes but would you be prepared to accept a segregated solution that you will have to drive to? There are consequences for everything we do and we cannot afford to underestimate the influence of those who oppose off-path cycling in the area. A well considered solution is one thing that resonates after 30 something years of involvement in the area. The whole area is deeply entrenched in old-school ownership and entitlement but we can have our cake and eat it too.

There's no shortage of commercial backing for MTB activities and the right staff at PV know that. There's money on the table to fund the lot from just the ISI Bicycle Carrier Business.

 

[jathanas]

Jim people need to be engaged, open minded and proactive- cant all agree on a strategy.

I understand mate. I'm not suggesting that we go with my plan. Far from it! I'd love to hear what everyone has to say.

I feel that we need some inspiration to help us all imagine what can be.

We should ask ourselves some basic questions. How would we do it today if we were to start from scratch?

Jimbo yes but would you be prepared to accept a segregated solution that you will have to drive to? There are consequences for everything we do and we cannot afford to underestimate the influence of those who oppose off-path cycling in the area. A well considered solution is one thing that resonates after 30 something years of involvement in the area. The whole area is deeply entrenched in old-school ownership and entitlement but we can have our cake and eat it too.

There's no shortage of commercial backing for MTB activities and the right staff at PV know that. There's money on the table to fund the lot from just the ISI Bicycle Carrier Business.

George, I'd be happy to accept that compromise i.e. a trail-head and a designated network. If we could all agree on that, then the sky is the limit. Again I'll use the progress that has been made at Plenty Gorge as a shining beacon of what can be achieved!

 

[gcouyant]

There where stakeholders interested in holding woman's skills sessions and others that wanted to develop the trails. Basically all ideas were thrown out due to the fact that Parks didn't want to commit and there was disunity in the stakeholders. All concerned parties could not get their shit together. You almost lost it to the state it was in rather than the commercial interests.

JD we looked like dicks over that whole fiasco. Do you recall it? Good grief we had our own MTB organisations telling PV that we should not ride on our trails. That was a shit time for us.

If we are to do anything then we really need to have our story straight and well considered.

 

[gcouyant]

George, I'd be happy to accept that compromise i.e. a trail-head and a designated network. If we could all agree on that, then the sky is the limit.

Oh. Jimbo....

If someone has to jump in the car then why not drive out to any of the dedicated MTB parks around Melbourne and ride all the groomed and bermed trails you like? I'm missing something here?

 

[jathanas]

Oh. Jimbo....

If someone has to jump in the car then why not drive out to any of the dedicated MTB parks around Melbourne and ride all the groomed and bermed trails you like? I'm missing something here?

I can't see that any of the local regulars would drive anywhere George, it'd simply mean staying on the bike-path until you hit the official trail. That's fine. We'd have to give something up in order to get a whole lot more in return. I might be Robinson Crusoe with this point of view.

 

[gcouyant]

I can't see that any of the local regulars would drive anywhere George, it'd simply mean staying on the bike-path until you hit the official trail.

Okie dokie. Well going by the mood here then it may be time to revisit the whole issue. If nothing else, perhaps this 6hr enduro has precipitated good discussion.