XC/ endurance wheelset. Ck? Crossmax?

rwk1

Squid
Hey guys, been off the MTB scene for quite a while. So now I'm building up a 2016 BMC FS01 29er and not sure about the wheelset.

I like them both but what are the performance implications if any?

Crossmax SL, CK/ titanium spokes/ light bicycle carbon rims.

I'm 78kg, 170cm and plan to train up to a mont 24hr solo event.

Cheers
Ryan
 

nickdos

Likes Dirt
What's your budget?

I'm the same weight/height as you and I'm thinking about Light Bicycle rims (24 or 30mm int width) for my next build. Poor Aus$ has been a downer but they still represent good value I think.

Crossmax are not on my radar so can't comment but they are a bit old school at 19mm int width ;-) Cool kids all ride wider carbon these days.
 
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John U

MTB Precision
Custom is the way to go. Xmax are expensive to buy and expensive to get parts for. Parts are harder to come by. And there is no advantage. In fact their performance might be worse.

And I have them on my Niner.

They have stayed straight and still spin well though.
 

markgab

Likes Dirt
I have both crossmax sx and ck

Ck for sure!
Once you have wn a ck you'll never get pleased with another :x
Might be an individual opinion but i prefer engagement :)
 

rwk1

Squid
@nickdos up to 2k for the wheelset. This bike will be one of those "fulfilling a childhood dream" kinda bike :bounce:

So the consensus seems to be Chris King all the way.. Will order that and report back once it's built! Thanks guys!
 

JTmofo

XC Enthusiast
Ah - thanks. The 'wheel set' question threw me off.

The new wheel sets from Reynolds (with i9 hubs) look like candy to me. Expensive candy.
Yeah OP is looking at Mavic Crossmax SL or Chris King hubs built to Light Bicycle rims.
I built up a set of Hopetech Pro Evo II hubs to LB 35mm Hookless rims about 18 months ago. Never had any issues with the rims and I give them a fair bit of hardship (I plough....not pick). Rims are stiff as... And by far preferred to my old (26") Crossmax SL.
They also had really nice engagement, stiff, look the nuts and never had any issues. Only thing I didn't like is the proprietary spoke system, I always worried about getting a replacement spoke if I manage to break one.

I know CK hubs run large engagement numbers (72 or something) but there are hideously expensive...... Makes me wonder are they worth the extra $$$ over Hopes.
 

slimjim1

Fat boomers cloggin' ma leaderboard
I know CK hubs run large engagement numbers (72 or something) but there are hideously expensive...... Makes me wonder are they worth the extra $$$ over Hopes.
The answer is no IMO. I've had uber-expensive high engagement hubs and I don't really see any advantage over a hub with say 36-40 points of engagement. Less than that I found annoying in tech climbs but once you have that number IMO it is diminishing returns, and mostly comes back to rider skill in clearing tech sections.

Plenty of quality hubs cheaper than CK. Hope, DT etc.
 

sclyde2

Likes Dirt
The answer is no IMO. I've had uber-expensive high engagement hubs and I don't really see any advantage over a hub with say 36-40 points of engagement. Less than that I found annoying in tech climbs but once you have that number IMO it is diminishing returns, and mostly comes back to rider skill in clearing tech sections.

Plenty of quality hubs cheaper than CK. Hope, DT etc.
what he said.

now that my dt240s hub has the 36T ratchet in it, the faster engagement on the chris king hub on my other bike is not so noticeable any more. yeah, it is still a little noticeably faster, but not enough to sway me towards the CK so much any more - and i tend to take advantage of it, doing the ratchetty thing on technical climbs on my low bottom bracket bike. also be aware that you can get 54t ratchets for dt swiss hubs now (i think via trek, but i saw at least one of the germans have them), so the gap has narrowed further.

further to this, given that you sound like you intend to use it on an xc bike, the need for the ratchetty stuff is probably not that great, and more in favour of reduced drag and weight. the dt swiss hubs kill the cks there. my vote is to get some 240s hubs. yeah, not cheap, and the freehubs are pretty soft (gotta use very top end cassettes with the carriers, or better still, those sram ones), but they are very well made, aren't obnoxiously loud like hopes, are quite simple in construction and easy to do the basic service on (once you get the right grease), and seem to last forever (mate is still running a 12 year old rear 240s, with never a problem, but it has the original freehub, which is VERY chewed out).

yep, agree with most of the above - get some of those direct-from-china carbon rims, and build it up with some decent spokes (cx-rays etc) and play it safe with some brass nipples. i am currently getting away with only 28 spokes on a set of 29er light bicycle wheels, and i probably weigh more than you.

EDIT: while i have no direct experience with ti spokes, all the research i did suggested that they are not worth it (the money or the weight savings). IIRC, they don't build a strong wheel, need truing often etc
 
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slimjim1

Fat boomers cloggin' ma leaderboard
reduced drag and weight...aren't obnoxiously loud like hopes
You haven't heard loud until you've heard an e13 hub. Those are ridiculous! But yes this is the other thing I remember, more drag on the high engagement hubs when spinning the wheel on the stand. Much more than the current DT 36T ratchet. Not noticeable on the trail though.

Moral of the story? Save yer dough on the hubs and splurge on the rest of the wheelset.
 

Ackland

chats d'élevage
Hey guys, been off the MTB scene for quite a while. So now I'm building up a 2016 BMC FS01 29er and not sure about the wheelset.

I like them both but what are the performance implications if any?

Crossmax SL, CK/ titanium spokes/ light bicycle carbon rims.

I'm 78kg, 170cm and plan to train up to a mont 24hr solo event.

Cheers
Ryan
#1 - Mont is teams only... but yeah solo24.. got it...
For a 24 solo wheelset, you want reliability, serviceability and good rolling as a priority over weight.
The two sets you have mentioned are very different, one being an off the shelf offering and the other being a full custom build

@nickdos up to 2k for the wheelset. This bike will be one of those "fulfilling a childhood dream" kinda bike :bounce:
$2K! Right! Now you're talking....

also be aware that you can get 54t ratchets for dt swiss hubs now (i think via trek, but i saw at least one of the germans have them), so the gap has narrowed further.

freehubs are pretty soft (gotta use very top end cassettes with the carriers).
^ he means 64t ratchets.... they double each time 16 - 32 - 64. If you go down the DT 240 route, DO NOT buy the 64t ratchets for MTB use...... the 32t however is a necessary upgrade...
There are zero issues with an alloy freehub initially getting a few gouges... it's called cold forging and in good quality alloys actually makes the freehub stronger

OK I have previously owned both mavic and CK/Ti Spoke wheelsets.

I very much dislike mavic wheels.

If you're going Ti spokes for weight loss, DON'T.
If you're going Ti spokes for bling..... DON'T.
Ti Spokes are the most expensive way to make a marginal weight gain for a flexible wheel which won't stay true....

Chris King hubs are a thing of beauty and up until this Boost Kerfuffle I would have said they're a lifetime investment but who knows these days....
They are however Expensive AND Heavy so they don't even live up to the usual two of the Strong/Light/Cheap trilogy of bike bling.....

I would recommend you go for....
#1 most important - A GOOD WHEEL BUILDER! I know several in at least 4 capital cities (most will even ship and don't care if you send them parts to build for you) and let me tell you, when you're shelling out for good wheels, the builder DOES make a difference (a big difference).
Hubs - Either DT 240's with a 32t ratchet OR Tune King/Kong with the latter being my preference for weight and performance. Both hubs engage well (even for Singlespeed use) spin up really well with little to no drag and are bombproof.
Spokes - Sapim CX Ray or DT Aerolite... Much of a muchness but they both build really nice stiff, strong and dependable wheels, even with alloy nipples.
Rims - Nowadays carbon is king but honestly, a great build in alloy will be cheaper, often lighter (unless you source exotic rims) and just as stiff when built right (see my first point)
I have found Light Bicycle rims to be just as good as exotic rims, however the exchange rate is really killing them at the moment.
I'm not buying into the ultra wide/ultra low pressure craze and certainly not for XC marathon. All I see lately is more smashed carbon rims from rock strikes than ever before!

My #1 recommendation....
Contact Krischan @ EightyOneSpices and ask for a quote on King/Kong hubs to Stans Crests with CX ray spokes
or get a hubs only price, order some LB rims and ask a good wheelbuilder to source you the CORRECT LENGTH spokes.

You should be able to get a bombproof wheelset to ~1400g for under $2K that will outlast your bike

(another option... you could probably get a Hope/DT Comp/Light Bike wheelset for nearer to $1.3K.... I know a shop in Bris that builds em and they're sweet but you'd be looking at 1700ish grams)

Moral of the story? Save yer dough on the hubs and splurge on the rest of the wheelset.
Disagree.... quality hubs make a difference when you're talking about a marathon wheelset
 
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rwk1

Squid
Lb rims

Thanks for all the replies guys.

My light bicycle carbon rims are being shipped today!

I'll get in touch with krischan to see what we can work out with hubs and build.

Did you mention a good wheelbuilder in vic?

Cheers!
 

sclyde2

Likes Dirt
^ he means 64t ratchets.... they double each time 16 - 32 - 64. If you go down the DT 240 route, DO NOT buy the 64t ratchets for MTB use...... the 32t however is a necessary upgrade...
There are zero issues with an alloy freehub initially getting a few gouges... it's called cold forging and in good quality alloys actually makes the freehub stronger
no, i mean 54t ratchets. the dt hubs are actually 18T standard. 2 x 18 = 36. 3 x 18 = 54.

they sure are asking ridiculous money for what they are: https://fairwheelbikes.com/dt-swiss-hub-small-parts-p-6025.html

why the no-54t ratchet for mtb? i did hear that the 36t are weaker than the 18t. are there reports that the 54t is weaker again?

i don't agree that there are zero issues with the freehub getting gouges. i have pulled cogs so far through that multi-cog shifting goes to crap probably due to the ramps no longer lining up. using a road cassette on it ended up rotating a few cogs so far that they went right through the thin spline. i get a second life out of those freehubs by attacking them with a file (quite time consuming) and then using the high end sram cassettes. yes, i make sure the cassette lock ring is quite tight and generally use xtr/DA/xx cassettes. i find the alloy freehub to be the biggest issue with those hubs.
 

Ackland

chats d'élevage
no, i mean 54t ratchets. the dt hubs are actually 18T standard. 2 x 18 = 36. 3 x 18 = 54.

why the no-54t ratchet for mtb? i did hear that the 36t are weaker than the 18t. are there reports that the 54t is weaker again?
Sorry.. brain fart.... 18t 20 deg and 36t 10 deg.... I knew that.... :yield:

My 36t ratchets have done more than 10,000 km with zero issues including no freehub gouging (using thick SS cogs, XT and SRAM 1080 cassettes) .... the 54t however are no good for high loading as the ramps are small
 

creaky

XMAS Plumper
the 54t however are no good for high loading as the ramps are small
That's what 'they' said about the 36T also. Any real world issues with the 54T ? I don't need more than the 36T on my star ratchet hubs so haven't read up on them and any issues. No problems on my 36T hubs.
 

c3024446

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Dt swiss 240S hubs or even 350's with the 36T ratchet, DT swiss aerolite spokes, laced to your rims. Can't do much better.
 

silentbutdeadly

has some good things to say
After demolishing a narrow (19 mm), super light alloy rim (Alex Evo Supercomp) on my hardtail (due to running narrow, light tyres and the attitude of blind drunk bison), my wheelbuilder followed my preference for a slightly burlier & wider rim on a similar budget ($80 to $100) down the road in the Alex range to the Volar 23 rim...23 mm internal, 420 grams, tubeless compatible, $80 local price. The plus was the same ERD as the demolished rim.

Now attached to a White Industries Mi6 rear hub using 32 Sapim Cx-Ray spokes...it runs sweet carrying a 2.0 Thunder Bart (which farted up tubeless in minutes). Main thing I've noticed is the plusher ride and better cornering confidence at the same pressures as before.

Mantra now with wheels is the best hubs you can afford/justify/maintain pair to the rims that give you the ride characteristics you want for the least amount of cash necessary given that they inevitably cop a hammering and you might get 10 days or a decade out of them...

If I was building from scratch then (at the moment) I'd go with Hope hubs, Alex Volar 23 and Sapim spokes....for the OP's budget, he'd get two sets custom made...and with tyres. Spend twice as much and you'll only drop 150 grams and get...what?
 
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