why so scared?

[SBMTB]

seems to me that too many riders are working 9-5 in companies where policies and procedures and oh&s rule. harden up guys and let riders take responsibility for themselves. build tracks wherever and ride them with a smile. ultimately no one can stop anyone from doing anything on public land. they might tell you they can or shut your shit down but dont let it break your spirit. just build them up again. after all most trails started without dse backing.
so the moral of the story is dont be scared of the nay sayers as they have just forgiottenn their roots.

 

[Australia]

And 3 - 2 - 1....

 

[Mr Kurt]

Its not a matter of we can't do it, its a matter of respect. People dont want huge piles of dirt in there parks, or DH riders hurtling past them at speed in a national park. it all goes down to respect. why build somewhere and be hated apon? why not go find somewhere that you can build on, and the track/jumps could be there for a long time??

 

[thecat]

no one can stop anyone from doing anything on public land

Actually they can. With out a DA consent any construction or earth works on public land (and in most cases even on private land) are illegal. People have been fined here and, if I recall correctly, a jail sentence handed down in the US of A.

But hey nice troll. Please refer to this

 

[PirateKing]

I don't know about wherever your are but up here in QLD national parks rangers can actually permanently confiscate your bike and car if you cause too much trouble.

This used to be a big problem when I abseiled a lot as they don't like that either, and a number of peoples gear has been seized when doing that.

 

[mowntinbika]

I think it really comes down to your conduct. If you choose to build without permission and accept the possible bad consequences, and then at least do it right. By this I mean building sustainable and least disturbance trails. Keep rubbish and risks to a minimum.

A bush reserve I know of is legal to ride in; however bmxers (read local teens on bmx bikes) persist in building huge bmx jumps. The way they are built just trashes the area as they lop trees to help them build. Anywhere up to six sites are in varying stages of completeness and decomposition. Nsw department of Sparks and wildfires periodically come through and bulldoze them. More sites spring up.

Of course the characteristic of these poorly built (poor draining, vandalistic, prolific). Sites is the amount of rubbish and alcohol containers lying around.

I reckon kids need somewhere to build jums and tracks, and but object to the way it has been done there.

If you must build without permission, please please do it right!

 

[uhuforrest]

No comment required

seems to me that too many riders are working 9-5 in companies where policies and procedures and oh&s rule. harden up guys and let riders take responsibility for themselves. build tracks wherever and ride them with a smile. ultimately no one can stop anyone from doing anything on public land. they might tell you they can or shut your shit down but dont let it break your spirit. just build them up again. after all most trails started without dse backing.
so the moral of the story is dont be scared of the nay sayers as they have just forgiottenn their roots.

 

[SBMTB]

Actually they can. With out a DA consent any construction or earth works on public land (and in most cases even on private land) are illegal. People have been fined here and, if I recall correctly, a jail sentence handed down in the US of A.

But hey nice troll. Please refer to this

Do your self a favor mate, when today tonight (or what ever that other false media show is) comes on at 6.30 pm flick the channel over. Its only building unessesary fear brother! fine or jail for riding a bike..... think about it!

 

[dirt lover]

Do your self a favor mate, when today tonight (or what ever that other false media show is) comes on at 6.30 pm flick the channel over. Its only building unessesary fear brother! fine or jail for riding a bike..... think about it!

Wow.......

 

[{ScarFace}]

Do your self a favor mate, when today tonight (or what ever that other false media show is) comes on at 6.30 pm flick the channel over. Its only building unessesary fear brother! fine or jail for riding a bike..... think about it!

You speak like Jim Morrison, but not in a cool cosmic way, just a stupid way. I like it.

Expand your mind guysss!! the media is blinding you alllll

 

[thecat]

Do your self a favor mate, when today tonight (or what ever that other false media show is) comes on at 6.30 pm flick the channel over. Its only building unessesary fear brother! fine or jail for riding a bike..... think about it!

Can you read? I said the fines and jail were for illegal trail construction.

But yes there has been fines handed out for riding.

Take SCA land for example. Unauthorised riding is fine-able at $330. Illegal trail construction fine-able up to $1100


I'm not trying to tell you what to do in your own neck of the woods just presenting facts

If you wish to partake in illegal trail building... this is not the place to discuss it as it is a sub forum that is dedicated to legal trail building and it is read by land managers.

Think about that.


Some other reading for you
Bicyclist who built illegal trail gets 10 days in jail
Australia cracks down on illegal mountain bike trails
$250 fines for cycling through park
Illegal DH trail at Nichols pde rallies blue mt residents against mountain bikers and forces closure of Old Bathurst rd trail
Pro Mountain Biker Sentenced to 3 Days in Jail for Riding Illegal Boulder Trail
Illegal Trail Builders Ruin It For Mountain Bikers Everywhere
IMBA World Summit 2010 Resources - Unauthorized Trails


But rock on. Damn the man, fight the power, viva la revolution and all that brother

 

[Dozer]

seems to me that too many riders are working 9-5 in companies where policies and procedures and oh&s rule. harden up guys and let riders take responsibility for themselves. build tracks wherever and ride them with a smile. ultimately no one can stop anyone from doing anything on public land. they might tell you they can or shut your shit down but dont let it break your spirit. just build them up again. after all most trails started without dse backing.
so the moral of the story is dont be scared of the nay sayers as they have just forgiottenn their roots.

Are you high? Do you have any respect for other people's values and views? Have you ever actually built a trail that will last the test of the weather and the people who use it? It doesn't sound like you have a real responsible take on the whole trail riding idea.
Read the stuff "thecat" has provided and take it all in. It isn't about fighting back or whatever shit you're on about, it is about doing things the right way and helping the sport to stay around for longer than just our generation.

 

[FINX74]

Awesome.

seems to me that too many riders are working 9-5 in companies where policies and procedures and oh&s rule. harden up guys and let riders take responsibility for themselves. build tracks wherever and ride them with a smile. ultimately no one can stop anyone from doing anything on public land. they might tell you they can or shut your shit down but dont let it break your spirit. just build them up again. after all most trails started without dse backing.
so the moral of the story is dont be scared of the nay sayers as they have just forgiottenn their roots.

This is great, I have just ordered 200 cubic meters of dirt for the front nature strip- gonna be sick jumps built.
Seriously, I don't know if you have had much trail building experience but this is not the way our sport should grow. If everyone wants new rideable trails and jumps etc. There is protocol to follow - there are already significant movements forward and more will follow. You need to look at it for the future of mtb not just now and you need to stop stealing oxygen as well.
Adrian.

 

[SBMTB]

Sorry guys, i'm out. i had the energy about the topic initially but I dont have the energy to partake in negative posts back and forth. Cat, I wansnt having a crack at you personally mate as I'm sure u a top cat and put bulk effort into mtb in general. I can see that my post could've been taken personally so for that I apologize. I guess I'm a little bit (no alot) jaded with our society and it frustrates me when something as simple as riding a bike becomes so complicated with legalities, liabilities, so on and so forth. Peace - SB->

 

[0psi]

it frustrates me when something as simple as riding a bike becomes so complicated with legalities, liabilities, so on and so forth. Peace - SB->

The short version.

I was biting my tounge on this but it seems that you aren't an idiot, just slightly ignorant. There's a whole lot to consider when building trails of any type, the main one being environmental damage. It's easy to cut a trail that will be fun to ride but it's a lot harder to build one that's sustainable and has minimal damage to the surrounding flora and fauna.

Without sounding like too much of a hippy, there's a lot of creatures that call your trails home and you need to remember that you are the guest there. What you may think is an innocent little trail could very well end up being a disaster for the local wildlife. Poorly built trails will erode removing both habitat and food for the local fauna, which will lead to a chain of events that I can't be bothered explaining but you get the idea. Trails can also upset migratory routes which obviously ain't too good for the local wildlife.

So unfortunately these laws are now in place to prevent ignorant, selfish people who aren't able to see the bigger picture from destroying the environment.

Then there's the whole public liability side of things which is best left for the bored mothers as they seem to be the only reason it exists.

 

[thecat]

Sorry guys, i'm out. i had the energy about the topic initially

Is this the shortest bloodless but failed revolution in history

Cat, I wansnt having a crack at you personally mate

Nothing taken personally. This cat has thick skin. I was just pointing out some of the claims you made about there being no fines for riding in certain places and it was just irrational fear that prevented people building trails where ever they wanted was wrong.

We've been reasonably strict in keeping this little subforum to legal trail building. Why? Well 1. Thats what it was set up for, as a resource for clubs, groups and private ventures to share ideas and get advice.
and 2. Most of us who have been around the advocacy game for a while have been in meetings with land managers where someone has presented comments from here and other forums in an attempt to show we're all a bunch of reckless gits with a complete disregard for rules and regulations.

Not what a land manager who is looking into approving trails on their land wants to hear

Do I think it's overly complicated and annoying... Have a read through my approvals thread or check out the Green Valleys thread and tell me what what you think.


Do I rue the loss of a time when the sport was small enough to fly under the radar and we all just went riding with our mates on what ever trail we could find? Yes I do

But I also respect the environment and want to make sure we're not stuffing it up for others and so as the sport has gotten bigger and bigger and more numbers = more impact I do believe it needs to be managed.

 

[Greenvalleys Freeride]

what a funny thread...

I do wonder if i hadn't worried about doing things the right way, and just started a mtb park without legal consent , what would have eventuated..

- how long would it take for council to find out..
- or would it have been a benefit in that i would have already had a working model to show council for the legal approval process..

You can't stop the weekend hacker building his own trail.. we all do it.. But in the bigger picture of creating proper places for people to ride , you have to beleive in the legal process for trail advocacy...

NSW is well behind the 8 ball on this one.. although its starting to gain momentum...

In shellharbour people ride illegally in Blackbutt Reserve and have done for many years , but council only care about submissions made for legal trails... go figure...

I support in principle the weekend hacker.. (sorry guys)... it gives rise to the need for legal ones...

You all better come ride at my park if it gets approved...

 

[uhuforrest]

Legal trail modification

G'Day All,

I put a hypothetical question to our land manager, (DSE Victoria)

If our club wanted to re-align part of a trail to improve its sustainability, what would the process be?

The hypothetical was for a downhill section of trail, about 40 metres total length, which erodes / wears in wet weather due to no water flow accross the trail. Instead water flows along the length of the trail and gathers speed on the way down.

The hypothetical solution was to re-align the trail so that it went down - up - down over the 40 metres, rather than down - down. (slowing riders speed at the bottom - reduced braking, and providing an opportunity to build-in drainage)

This is the reply

"The proposed realignment would require the following planning process to be completed,

Legislation which needs to be adhered:
Future Act (Cultural Heritage)
Planning Environment Act,

The following values would need to be managed:
Catchment values
Pest and weeds
Phytophthora Management

Risk Management Assessments (IMBA)
Ongoing management and costs for DSE need to be accounted for.
The wider community would need to be informed and support the development."


Does this help answer why we need to stick to legal trails?

Roland

 

[zoidberg]

G'Day All,

I put a hypothetical question to our land manager, (DSE Victoria)

If our club wanted to re-align part of a trail to improve its sustainability, what would the process be?

The hypothetical was for a downhill section of trail, about 40 metres total length, which erodes / wears in wet weather due to no water flow accross the trail. Instead water flows along the length of the trail and gathers speed on the way down.

The hypothetical solution was to re-align the trail so that it went down - up - down over the 40 metres, rather than down - down. (slowing riders speed at the bottom - reduced braking, and providing an opportunity to build-in drainage)

This is the reply

"The proposed realignment would require the following planning process to be completed,

Legislation which needs to be adhered:
Future Act (Cultural Heritage)
Planning Environment Act,

The following values would need to be managed:
Catchment values
Pest and weeds
Phytophthora Management

Risk Management Assessments (IMBA)
Ongoing management and costs for DSE need to be accounted for.
The wider community would need to be informed and support the development."


Does this help answer why we need to stick to legal trails?

Roland

All that red tape could be used to build a berm!

 

[DOWNHILLPHILL]

Funny story...

A few years back out west I lived in this hole called Charleville, for young blokes thier was nothing really to do accept ride dirt bikes... the town was dirt bike heaven it had a river which was either dry as hell or flooded of course complete with a flood levy bank and a mad mx track, the town was also full of drugs and the police used it as a training haven for new officers.
Anyway these kids are riding thier dirt bikes down at the levy bank and the cops pull up next to them "do you kids have licsenses for them things....?" "catch me and I'll think about giving you the answer!" starts the bike up sprays the cop car with dirt and takes of into the distance, the cops never caught them because the bikes can go through trees and across steep crossings etc.


Haha alass if it were only the same in the mtb world