Who has the right of way here?
- Thread starter Techno Destructo
- Start date
If I'm riding I would give way to the rider going uphill. I don't think it's a right of way thing nor is it any kind of 'rule'. It's just how I ride.
All I know is that it's easy to squeeze on the brakes a bit more and restart, so what if you lose a bit of momentum? Restarting on an uphill can be the difference between walking it or not and I hate walking up a perfectly ridable hill
I have noticed a lot of riders tend to stop climbing and pull aside at the first sign of people coming downhill to let them pass, so obviously not everyone agrees with me. Cat's suggestion is obviously best practice but I'm probably not as friendly as him
Liam
All I know is that it's easy to squeeze on the brakes a bit more and restart, so what if you lose a bit of momentum? Restarting on an uphill can be the difference between walking it or not and I hate walking up a perfectly ridable hill
I have noticed a lot of riders tend to stop climbing and pull aside at the first sign of people coming downhill to let them pass, so obviously not everyone agrees with me. Cat's suggestion is obviously best practice but I'm probably not as friendly as him
Liam
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride_sweet
9/10 tracks are ridden one way, and if someone coming downhill the wrong way really shouldn't be riding the track anyway
I can't believe people think that way. Makes me sad
Liam
Sparrow Hill is a good case in point, out the back near the dam runs you tend to get looked down apon if you ride it clockwise. Even to the extent of people trying to ride through you. Why, because they're to brainless to try riding with a bit of variety instead of folowing race arrows?
morgs
Originally Posted by freeride_sweet
9/10 tracks are ridden one way, and if someone coming downhill the wrong way really shouldn't be riding the track anyway
I can't believe people think that way. Makes me sad
Liam
Sparrow Hill is a good case in point, out the back near the dam runs you tend to get looked down apon if you ride it clockwise. Even to the extent of people trying to ride through you. Why, because they're to brainless to try riding with a bit of variety instead of folowing race arrows?
morgs
Turner_rider
Likes Bikes and Dirt
In years gone by in the road sense on a narrow dirt road vehicles travelling downhill had to give way to those coming up, on the basis that those going down could alway use gravity to to restart, whereas those coming up could not.Techno Destructo said:
It's hard to say if this has translated to the singletrack mtbing world as a rule of thumb so to speak, as some riders ride downhill with the expectation that everyone will get out of their way as they are pushing to "their" limits - although in most cases those coming down are happy to stop and let those struggling up to go, as well as inform each other of the number of riders coming up and down. So maybe there is an unwritten rule...
General rule, rider uphill has right of way because he's doing it the toughest.
My rule, move out of the way of the dude going downhill, safety first and downhill is much more fun.
Going the opposite way around a heavily used track like Manly damn is stupid if you know the way most people will be riding it. Not because it's out of the ordinary, more so because there are some really fast, tight, windy sections with many blind corners. If some one smacked me head on coming the other way in that section and is a regular user of the track, I'd be inclined to make my frustration known to the rider in very unambiguous terms!
My rule, move out of the way of the dude going downhill, safety first and downhill is much more fun.
Going the opposite way around a heavily used track like Manly damn is stupid if you know the way most people will be riding it. Not because it's out of the ordinary, more so because there are some really fast, tight, windy sections with many blind corners. If some one smacked me head on coming the other way in that section and is a regular user of the track, I'd be inclined to make my frustration known to the rider in very unambiguous terms!
arpit
Banned
Johnny, Interesting that you say that. They person going the 'wrong' way would have a powerful argument that they were just following the arrows on all the rocks, would they not? Further, the council maps seem to tell you to go the wrong way too....
I know I did it in reverse the first time I tried it. I encountered riders going the other way on singletrack, but didn't have a problem with them. However, many sections were manifestly unpleasant in reverse.
That said, I do note you qualified your statements by only referring to regular users of the track. Further, my arguments really would only apply to newbies.
I know I did it in reverse the first time I tried it. I encountered riders going the other way on singletrack, but didn't have a problem with them. However, many sections were manifestly unpleasant in reverse.
That said, I do note you qualified your statements by only referring to regular users of the track. Further, my arguments really would only apply to newbies.
Can't say I've ever notoced the arrows or used council guides myself. As for new users, everyone's got to learn somehow, no issues with that. Most sections would be fine IMO, but there are definately some corners that I really like tearing around and would be a little concerned about head ons. It's really only the tight sections that matter.arpit said:
*Runs off to design "bull bar for Bikes".........
Bodin
GMBC
I remember reading an American mag a while ago that published a set of "unofficial rules of the trail" that supprted the "downhill gives way to uphill" philosophy.
I understand the reasons why, which many have already stated, but I tend to be a bit too embarrassed in front of a rider coming downhill to obstinately enforce this "rule", as I personally don't like having my downhill runs interrupted and I'd hope others out on the trail can extend the same courtesy to me.
The reality is that I'm prepared to stop in any situation apart from a race and I think pretty much everyone who's posted here seems to be of the same opinion, but to specifically answer the original question, the answer I've been made aware of is that uphill gets r.o.w.
Do you reckon the people that enforce the uphill thing would give you their last spare tube in the middle of a field of thorns? That's the other thing you're s'posed to do if you wanna be a truly politically correct trail rider... oh, and of course we never skid our rear tyre, either, now, do we?
Now I'm just ranting. Shut up, Bodin.
I understand the reasons why, which many have already stated, but I tend to be a bit too embarrassed in front of a rider coming downhill to obstinately enforce this "rule", as I personally don't like having my downhill runs interrupted and I'd hope others out on the trail can extend the same courtesy to me.
The reality is that I'm prepared to stop in any situation apart from a race and I think pretty much everyone who's posted here seems to be of the same opinion, but to specifically answer the original question, the answer I've been made aware of is that uphill gets r.o.w.
Do you reckon the people that enforce the uphill thing would give you their last spare tube in the middle of a field of thorns? That's the other thing you're s'posed to do if you wanna be a truly politically correct trail rider... oh, and of course we never skid our rear tyre, either, now, do we?
Now I'm just ranting. Shut up, Bodin.
Who ever can grab a nearby tree first is the one who gives way so they dont have to unclipp/put a foot down
I agree tho, i am never in too much of a rush not to yield way to another rider (after all i go out to ride to relax), and am happy to give way to someone going up or down a hill.
Its kinda annoying having to give way to people while you are tearing down a hill about to hit a jump or something.
I agree tho, i am never in too much of a rush not to yield way to another rider (after all i go out to ride to relax), and am happy to give way to someone going up or down a hill.
Its kinda annoying having to give way to people while you are tearing down a hill about to hit a jump or something.
Most times I've been confronted by a rider barrelling downhill I am moving too slowly to take evasive action. (yeah, OK, I suck uphill). So regardless of the rules, it's more practical for the downhill rider to change lines as they have the momentum and speed to do it. If the downhill rider waited for the uphill rider to get out of the way he would usually have to slow right down anyway, so he may as well swerve around him/her.
I often ride Manly dam anti clockwise and the downhill from Wakehurst to the creek is a good case in point. Often when riding up, a downhiller will be on past you within a few seconds of him appearing. Giving way is rarely an option.
Also, while on Manly Dam, a track like Manly Dam is too multi-use to be ridden with arrogant abandon. It's not a race course and shouldn't be ridden like one. Coming around a blind corner on a weekend you are just as likely to come across a family of walkers, an old guy walking his dog or a jogger. You are hardly going to abuse a lady and three kids for walking along the trail. So I would suggest, if you smacked into someone head on after coming around a blind corner, you should take a long hard look at your riding attitude and don't be at all surprised if the dude you smacked happens to hit you with a big law suit. Golden rule, don't take any section faster than you can safely stop within viewable distance.
Having said all that, I've never had a problem riding it anti-clockwise and I do it several times a week as do a handful of other riders. Most riders are courteous and happy to share the trails safely with all users.
I often ride Manly dam anti clockwise and the downhill from Wakehurst to the creek is a good case in point. Often when riding up, a downhiller will be on past you within a few seconds of him appearing. Giving way is rarely an option.
Also, while on Manly Dam, a track like Manly Dam is too multi-use to be ridden with arrogant abandon. It's not a race course and shouldn't be ridden like one. Coming around a blind corner on a weekend you are just as likely to come across a family of walkers, an old guy walking his dog or a jogger. You are hardly going to abuse a lady and three kids for walking along the trail. So I would suggest, if you smacked into someone head on after coming around a blind corner, you should take a long hard look at your riding attitude and don't be at all surprised if the dude you smacked happens to hit you with a big law suit. Golden rule, don't take any section faster than you can safely stop within viewable distance.
Having said all that, I've never had a problem riding it anti-clockwise and I do it several times a week as do a handful of other riders. Most riders are courteous and happy to share the trails safely with all users.
I think you will find that there is a substantial difference in approach speed of some one riding a bike and some on walking.gustfront said:
I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. As far as I'm aware, MAnly Dam is a dedicated riding track (please correct me if I am wrong), so shouldn't the walkers look out for us for a change? Or do we play second fiddle to walkers all the time? Secondly, not everyone is content with a casual Sunday pedal when they ride. Many of us are training for races, upping fitness levels and attempting to challenge ourselves.
I guess most of my argument hinges on whether Manly Dam is a dedicated bike track or not.
*Edit, why would that question be rhetorical?
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arpit
Banned
Johnny, I too was unsure about whether your question was rhetorical.
I agree entirely with your argument in regards to approach speeds.
In addition, walkers are very maneuverable. A while back I was riding down the high speed section of singletrack, quite irresponsibly, and oblivious to the possibility that there might be walkers on the track. I went around a blind corner, and found myself a metre or 2 away from a walker. I slammed on my brakes and came to a stop right next to him, with a sound like a truck stopping. HE jumped into the bushes. He accepted my apologies. If that had been a rider who was riding at walking speed, there would have been a very low speed collision, because of decreased maneuverability. If the rider had been riding at a decent pace, we would both have been injured.
No it is not a dedicated riding track.
We play second fiddle to walkers pretty much anywhere except on bike only paths or bike lanes. That said, we sit higher than walkers, move faster than them, and exhibit none of the traditional body signs to indicate intentions to change direction. We often hide behind helmets and sunglasses. We ride large bikes with fat knobby tyres and oversized tubing. We sometimes wear armour similarly styled to police riot gear.
Most walkers will give way out of a reflex action to stay alive. That said, exploiting it would be, by definition, terrorism.
I agree entirely with your argument in regards to approach speeds.
In addition, walkers are very maneuverable. A while back I was riding down the high speed section of singletrack, quite irresponsibly, and oblivious to the possibility that there might be walkers on the track. I went around a blind corner, and found myself a metre or 2 away from a walker. I slammed on my brakes and came to a stop right next to him, with a sound like a truck stopping. HE jumped into the bushes. He accepted my apologies. If that had been a rider who was riding at walking speed, there would have been a very low speed collision, because of decreased maneuverability. If the rider had been riding at a decent pace, we would both have been injured.
No it is not a dedicated riding track.
We play second fiddle to walkers pretty much anywhere except on bike only paths or bike lanes. That said, we sit higher than walkers, move faster than them, and exhibit none of the traditional body signs to indicate intentions to change direction. We often hide behind helmets and sunglasses. We ride large bikes with fat knobby tyres and oversized tubing. We sometimes wear armour similarly styled to police riot gear.
Most walkers will give way out of a reflex action to stay alive. That said, exploiting it would be, by definition, terrorism.
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danTM
Likes Dirt
I belive manly dam is a shared trail with walkers, otherwise how would they get to the walking tracks that branch off?johnny said:
I generally give way to bikes and walkers (slow down) unless I am racing or testing how fast I can do a lap.
The thing that really shits me though is people when I am riding my SS and going up a hill and they are off walking on there 27 speed bike and they don't move off the trail when they have seen me GRRRRRRRRR........