Suspension set up ???

[shadow knight]

Hey all probably has already been done but thought I need an even more dumbed down version.
I have a 2012 cove shocker with a Fox dhxrc4 rear shock and 2012 boxxer World Cup forks.
I have kind of found a setting that I like for the You Yangs, but when I went to Maldon it was way to stiff and ended up fatiguing my hands quite quickly.
I weigh 95kg and am running a 450 rear spring.
Just want to know what all the hsc, lsc, hsr and lsr do exactly in the most simplest way.
Eg what I should adjust for small bump sensitivity, what to adjust for jumps, what to adjust to make the bike pedal better ?
Had a kona operator prior to this which had basic suspension, but can't wrap my head around what all the dials and what air pressure I should be running in my forks and my shock on my current ride.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers in advance.
Dan

 

[dontfeelcold]

Google the various adjustments you have.

 

[shadow knight]

Hey mate yeah I downloaded the manuals and even went through the pink bike how to's.
I can kind of get a base setting I don't mind but don't know what to adjust when I go to different tracks if that makes sense, such as more rocky, more jumpy or more pedally.
Even if anyone knows of a good bike shop not far from the cbd that could help me out.
Cheers

 

[driftking]

This is a brief wrote I did a few years ago about the rc4 it should help.
HSC - this controls virtually all the bumps and rock gardens you encounter, it controls the harshness felt initially or the initial compliance in the shock to forces and over all travel use in rock gardens and rough terrain.

LSC - This controls the body movement and momentum shift on the trail so under pedaling LSC can be used to control bob, Under braking LSC can be used to control dive. Set this up to avoid too much dive or travel use under body movement like smooth corners and pedaling/dive. This is also used in wallowing holes. It very minorly effects small bump but its not its primary goal.


Rebound- Obvious one this one, the rate at which the bike rebounds, if you have too much rebound dampening (too slow) the bike will pack down, this means that the suspension wont recover enough from a previous hit before it hits another one which means the suspension continues to get lower and lower in its travel. Not enough dampening (too fast) the bike doesn't settle in its travel and you loose traction and you get a harsh or unstable ride.
A good way to understand packing is if you use 3 inches then it rebound 2 then you hit another bump you use another 3 then rebound two. as you can see using 6 and rebounding 4 means that the fork is packing down (getting lower). You want a balance.


Bottom out control - BOC controls how much the suspension ramps up towards the end of its travel.
Pressure - the pressure in the shock chamber controls the overall dampening of the shock but can primarily be used to control support in the suspension during mid stroke ans ending stroke.I use about 170. Always stay within the recommended ranges.

brief explanation of pressure and BOC use.
Lets assume you have the right spring rate and set the HSC and LSC and rebound up correctly as these are the simple ones.
If you find our are using too much travel in the rough you need to up your HSC, however if upping the HSC makes the bike harsh on square edge hits or in the rough, instead try upping the Pressure. By upping the pressure you are placing more support in the shock and you should notice that you use less travel but the bike is not harsh as HSC is kept the same.

If you find you are still bottoming out on big hits but again changing HSC or upping pressure makes the ride too harsh or too stiff, this is where you use the BOC, this will make the ending stroke of the shock ramp up more.

Now if the following is confusing or you cannot grasp the idea than disregard it and just go on everything else in the post.


Now there is some cross over with HSC and LSC depending on your riding speed. The faster you are the harder you hit things the more velocity is put through the suspension and the faster the shaft moves.This becomes a issue as slow riders will be relying more so on LSC than HSC, as you become faster more bumps become HSC and less become LSC, so for a slow rider who is trying to control support and bump absorption it becomes difficult as slower riders, more bumps are LSC. More support means more LSC but more bump absorption means less LSC. So there will be some cross over. The the faster the rider the less cross over there is. So being a fast rider actually makes suspension set up and performance easier.
Ie. slow riders 50% is HSC 50% is LSC. now you are trying to control 50% of bumps with LSC and your also trying to control momentum and movement with LSC so this means the LSC is stretched between two things with more compromise. As you get faster more bumps become HSC so the faster you go you might end up with bumps being controlled by 80%HSC and 20% LSC, this means that the LSC can be focused on its job rather than bump absorption, hence less compromise.



If you want the fork to be a bit softer in the rough dial back the HSC and potentially the LSC a few clicks.

Harshness however can be
spring rate too stiff
Too fast rebound
Too slow rebound

So these need to be sorted out first

For the dhx the general set up method is

Spring rate > rebound/s > LSC > HSC > BV pressure > bottom out control.

 

[24alpha]

And if what DK posted was too confusing (I found it interesting - thnx DK), a good bike shop close to the city is My Mountain.

 

[Hools]

Nice explanation Driftking. Well written and thought out.

 

[driftking]

Thanks guys, I probably could go over it and rewrite it a little better. I wrote it quite a while ago.

Keep in mind this refers to the 2011 rc4 and the current models. The new 2014 will be very different due to the fairly drastic changes in the shock.

But in general LSC and HSC and rebound remains the same description across the board.
Pressure and bottom out adjustments will be dependent on how each shock is designed.

If i can simplify it for the OP.

First off you want to have the right spring rate, for downhill you want about 30-35% sag fully geared up in riding position in the rear.
We will assume you have obtained the correct spring rate from here.

Some points first.
*Low speed and high speed compression refers to the speed of the shaft and the shock not the bike speed*
*low and high speed rebounds (which we wont be talking about both) also refers to the shaft speed and not the bike speed*
*HSC and LSC adjustments most just effect the initial compliance or initial give in the suspension they don't really increase support*
*while most of this can be transferred over it is mostly directed at the 2011 Rc4, specifically boost value and bottom out control the current generation of rc4 should also be fine with this as far as i am aware adjustments are the same.*
*Follow the standard spring rate > rebounds > compressions > Pressures and bottomouts*
*Tire pressure must remain the same during testing, it is also a good idea to test on new tires as tires and pressures have big effects on the feeling of the bike very much so traction.*


Rebound: Rebound can be hard to feel but rebound is the feeling after the shock has compressed.
Issue:Rear end feels too lively and will not settle into corners, it feels as it is kicking you forwards or over the front of the bike.
Solution:Add more rebound dampening (slow down) one click at a time until happy

Issue: Rear end feels like it is getting lower and lower and not recovering from previous hits properly, it feels like the shock is losing travel Or sitting into corners too long.
Solution: Reduce rebound dampening (make faster) until you are no longer feeling this and its not kicking you either.

Compression: Compression is felt during the absorption or the squishing of the shock.
Issue: Under pedaling or body movement the bike is using excessive travel and really bogging down or creating to much suspension movements under rider input and the bike is sinking too low in its travel during smooth corners ie any slow shaft movement
Solution: Add LSC dampening (make stiffer), will reduce pedal bob and excessive suspension movement from rider input or slow shaft objects, will help the bike sit up in corners without bogging down.

Issue: The bike is too stiff under pedaling reducing traction, it feels too stiff going into corners reducing traction.
Solution: Reduce LSC dampening (make softer), this will allow the suspension to fall deeper into its travel and remain more active in corners and under pedaling.


Issue: In rock gardens and square edge hits the suspension is blowing through its travel and feels excessively soft.
Solution: Add HSC dampening (stiffen), this will stiffen up the suspension during high speed hits.

Issue: Square edge hits and rock gardens are harsh the suspension feels like its too stiff and not using enough travel.
Solution: Reduce HSC dampening (soften)

Boost valve pressure (BV)
Issue: Bike is taking square edge hits perfectly but is still blowing through travel in rockgardens, adding HSC makes the ride harsh. Almost as if the suspension is lacking support
Solution: Add pressure to the boostvalue, tune in increments of 5-10psi at a time and never exceed the max/min recommendations.

Issue: Square edge hits are perfect but suspension feels too stiff in rock gardens still, it feels like the first hit is fine but there is almost too much support afterwards. Reducing HSC results in the fork been too soft on square hits or the first hit.This is massively rare but I included it anyway, generally if the pressure is too stiff the HSC will be too, except in the case where you are running zero HSC in which case you should change springs to a lighter weight.
Solution: Reduce the boost value pressure by 5-10 increments until feels right, making sure to never exceed the max/min recommendations.

*Changing the boost value pressure does effect the overall dampening of the suspension however its minor and mostly a mid stroke/ending stroke support adjustment*

Bottom out control (BOC)
Issue:Suspension is bottoming out a little too often, upping HSC does not help and makes the ride harsh, upping BV pressure makes the ride too stiff and harsh as well.
Solution: Add BOC dampening (stiffen) this essentially ramps up the end of the stroke to be a little more progressive to help give it more support.

Issue: Not using full travel often enough
Solution: This is a HSC or BV issue and potentially a spring rate, therefore follow the above procedures.


Finally
Ride the bike and make fine adjustments after a few days but after spending a day or two going over this once you should be 90% of the way to perfect.
I hope that helps and makes it a little easier, I am far from a suspension expert so I do hope if I have gotten anything wrong those members who can correct me do so. I am confident this is accurate though.

 

[SideFX]

Hey all probably has already been done but thought I need an even more dumbed down version.
I have a 2012 cove shocker with a Fox dhxrc4 rear shock and 2012 boxxer World Cup forks.
I have kind of found a setting that I like for the You Yangs, but when I went to Maldon it was way to stiff and ended up fatiguing my hands quite quickly.
I weigh 95kg and am running a 450 rear spring.
Just want to know what all the hsc, lsc, hsr and lsr do exactly in the most simplest way.
Eg what I should adjust for small bump sensitivity, what to adjust for jumps, what to adjust to make the bike pedal better ?
Had a kona operator prior to this which had basic suspension, but can't wrap my head around what all the dials and what air pressure I should be running in my forks and my shock on my current ride.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers in advance.
Dan

Hi dan , once you get your head around it , it becomes easier . So ill give you a basic explanation and i hope i can help u .
Start with the rear shock . Turn all the dials to <-> . This is the full open position and will basically turn the rear shock into a spring .
Adding "dampening" <+> from the fully open position will restrict the spring action of the shock for low and high speed compression .
HSC compressions main duty is to stop bottom out of the shock , so by starting with a few <+> " dampening " this will aid the shock form bottoming out .
BUT to much HSC dampening will make the rear of the bike tend to "hook up " " slow down " while rolling over ,roots rocks etc .
LSC . By adding dampening <+>from the fully open <-> your bike will pedal better , like a rocket if all the dampening is on .
BUT to much <+> dampening will make the rear of the bike brake traction too easily and will loose the supple feeling .
The air pressure on the RC4 . At your weight id say you be around the 160 psi mark . The air in the piggy back governs how firm the bike feels and you will feel this through you feet and legs .
The BOC , well fox have ditched this for the newer RC4 and as a general set up most / all bike companies recommend to wind it all the way out then 1full turn in . The BOC has three turns on it . My understanding is that the BOC governs weight shift , side to side .
Rebound , rebound governs how quickly the shock will return to full extension . It also effects take offs from jumps . I think that running a slowest rebound is best but thats my personal prferance . But you want the shock to recover! Rebound also effects take offs from a lip/jump , and traction . If you hit a jump and it feels like the rear wheel want to kick over your head you have to much rebound , if the bike feel like it dropping away you need more .
Dan as a basic set up i would start with
165 PSi
I turn <+> form the fully out position on the BOC
6 turns/ clicks of dampening <+> of high and low speed compression from the fully open position
6 clicks of rebound .
Also check the sag on the shock .
I didn`t read any of the other replies as they looked long winded , now looking at mine it looks the same . If you want me to coment on the fork let me know :> .

 

[thecat]

Some great tips from S. here

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/sho...uning-for-stability-another-long-bastard-post

 

[shadow knight]

Hey peeps sorry for the late reply and thanks for the feedback it's greatly appreciated.
It has definitely helped me get my head around all the adjustability.
A couple quick questions, if my rear shock has a 3" stroke should I measure 1" of the shaft length to get 30% sag or it doesn't work that way ?
Also I find it hard to achieve 30% sag in my front fork if I am going by the air pressure guide that is on the sticker on my fork.
Would having a more raked out fork have something to do with it ?
also if anyone knows where to download the 2012 boxxer wc manual as I only have the 2011 one which doesn't apply properly because the 2012 fork has more turns on the dials than the 2011 one.
Cheers once again peeps greatly appreciated.
Dan

 

[driftking]

Hey peeps sorry for the late reply and thanks for the feedback it's greatly appreciated.
It has definitely helped me get my head around all the adjustability.
A couple quick questions, if my rear shock has a 3" stroke should I measure 1" of the shaft length to get 30% sag or it doesn't work that way ?
Also I find it hard to achieve 30% sag in my front fork if I am going by the air pressure guide that is on the sticker on my fork.
Would having a more raked out fork have something to do with it ?
also if anyone knows where to download the 2012 boxxer wc manual as I only have the 2011 one which doesn't apply properly because the 2012 fork has more turns on the dials than the 2011 one.
Cheers once again peeps greatly appreciated.
Dan

hopefully my posts weren't too confusing. suspension is pretty intimidating when starting out.

yes that sag is the right way to measure, get a friend to measure the shocks stroke (shaft) when your in riding gear and in riding position, its also good to bounce up and down a bit and then let it settle just to help it settle in the right spot (has to do with stored friction). As a good guide get into riding position and measure 30-35% for the rear.

On fork sag aim for about 25%, just add - take out air till this is achieved. The guides are just guides not 'musts' the only 'musts' you need to worry about are the maximum and minimum air pressures, as long as you say in the forks max and min air pressure ranges your fine.

With forks though, due to the headangle and riding angles sag on the flat can be a bit iffy sometimes the right sag off the trail doesn't equate to the right spring/pressure though, for instance if I put a spring in my fork that gives me 25% sag its too soft on the trail, my current spring is perfect and it only gives me 15% sag on flat.

I too have had that issue with RS not producing a manual for the next gen fork, mine too has more dials, the job of LSC and HSC remains the same though so don't worry, you just have more fine tuning on your fork with more dial clicks.

Hope that helps

 

[adamenp]

I just bought a second-hand 2012 glory, having a few issues myself getting the suspension dialled to my liking. It's running Boxxer R2C2 and I am running the blue springs in them and weigh around 85kg but I am getting more sag than the recommended 30%. Unlike the world cup boxers I can't stiffen them up by adjusting the air pressure, does this mean I need to go to a stiffer spring ? Would fresh oil/service stiffen them up ? I haven't messed around with the other settings as according to the rockshox guide you have to get the sag right first ?

Cheers for any help

 

[driftking]

I just bought a second-hand 2012 glory, having a few issues myself getting the suspension dialled to my liking. It's running Boxxer R2C2 and I am running the blue springs in them and weigh around 85kg but I am getting more sag than the recommended 30%. Unlike the world cup boxers I can't stiffen them up by adjusting the air pressure, does this mean I need to go to a stiffer spring ? Would fresh oil/service stiffen them up ? I haven't messed around with the other settings as according to the rockshox guide you have to get the sag right first ?

Cheers for any help

As you already know the R2C2 has no air pressure and is controlled with the spring instead.

Its probably a good idea to do a full service to make sure everything internally is functioning right and that there is nothing internally causing excessive sag, also been a second hand fork its good to do one anyway for performance and tuning purposes.
However this is something you need to really know what you are doing before opening up the fork. So its up to you whether you have a crack yourself or get a store to do it. Ideally you want a full service changing all the O-rings and seals not just oil. You can also opt for low friction seals by racing bros heard they are pretty good.

A full service will just make sure your tuning from a fully functioning fork.

If you are getting more than 30% sag than you need to go up to the heavier spring. You should actually fit on the blue as rockshox recommends however if your sag is that much go to the heavier black spring.