So your saying that i can re-use spokes between different wheel builds. Because from what ive been told is you cant as the spokes are stretched once they have been used. Show me a link to a legit website that says spokes dont stretch. CaUse i think you are mis-imformed. Your trying to say that a tensioned strand of metal will never stretch past its original tolerances?
Rims
- Thread starter RainbowofDETH
- Start date
So your saying that i can re-use spokes between different wheel builds. Because from what ive been told is you cant as the spokes are stretched once they have been used. Show me a link to a legit website that says spokes dont stretch. CaUse i think you are mis-imformed. Your trying to say that a tensioned strand of metal will never stretch past its original tolerances?
redbruce
Eats Squid
Summitfever is correct (assuming quality spokes, no damage and a professional build in the first instance).
See Roger Musson's book - Professional guide to Wheel building, page 79.
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
Having said that, professional wheel builders will usually specify new spokes because they don't know the history of the original wheel build and they need to guarantee their work. Its risk management for them.
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RainbowofDETH
Likes Dirt
Hahahahaha! Please, kill it before it breeds.
redbruce
Eats Squid
http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html
Jobst Brandt is a mechanical engineer (Stanford) with extensive experience, having worked for Porsche automobiles, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, Hewlett-Packard and Avocet bicycle products.
For the record don't know Roger Musson from a bar of soap but in wheel building circles he is held in high regard.
MTB Wanabe
Likes Dirt
Ok a few things here to attend to.
First, if the wheel is built properly in the first place and the wheel builder knows what they are doing, you will not have to take it back to get a re-true after a couple of rides and a good builder will never tell whoever they built the wheel for to take it easy and bring it back in a week for an adjustment. If your wheels need any substantial adjust in a ride or 2, barring serious dh use or uber lightweight xc wheels, you should not have to touch them for at least 6 months, and then it should only be a small adjustment if any. Lightweight race wheels and dh wheels do need a bit of attention as they are generally lighter than what they ideally should be for longevity and dh rims get dings etc resulting in an imbalance in the spoke tensions.
Secondly, the issue of reusing old spokes is fine to do and has nothing to do with stretching of the spokes, but rather has everything to do with the fatigue life of the spokes. No matter how good the build, eventually the spokes will start to break from metal fatigue. The better the initial build and the more even and balanced the spoke tensions, the longer this will take before spokes start to break. So the older the wheel is that you intend on reusing spoke from is, the more likely you are going to get premature spoke breakage. So for new builds, unless the existing wheel is still relatively new or had only a moderate amount of use, then I too recommend replacement of the spokes.
Thirdly, it is not a conspiracy and it will be the best 9 pounds you will spend on educating yourself the art of wheel building. I paid it and I have read the 100 odd pages numerous times and his spoke calculator is quite accurate also. If you are serious about learning how to build wheels properly, you should buy this document. I also won't give out the pdf as it is only 9 pounds and the information in it is worth 3 times this much and Roger should not be ripped off such a small amount as he deserves to be paid for such a great resource. And lets be real, people walk into a bike shop and pay $100+ for a build. If you were to buy all of the stuff required to build good quality, reliable wheels and are prepared to put in a few hours of effort you will be no worse off financially.
First, if the wheel is built properly in the first place and the wheel builder knows what they are doing, you will not have to take it back to get a re-true after a couple of rides and a good builder will never tell whoever they built the wheel for to take it easy and bring it back in a week for an adjustment. If your wheels need any substantial adjust in a ride or 2, barring serious dh use or uber lightweight xc wheels, you should not have to touch them for at least 6 months, and then it should only be a small adjustment if any. Lightweight race wheels and dh wheels do need a bit of attention as they are generally lighter than what they ideally should be for longevity and dh rims get dings etc resulting in an imbalance in the spoke tensions.
Secondly, the issue of reusing old spokes is fine to do and has nothing to do with stretching of the spokes, but rather has everything to do with the fatigue life of the spokes. No matter how good the build, eventually the spokes will start to break from metal fatigue. The better the initial build and the more even and balanced the spoke tensions, the longer this will take before spokes start to break. So the older the wheel is that you intend on reusing spoke from is, the more likely you are going to get premature spoke breakage. So for new builds, unless the existing wheel is still relatively new or had only a moderate amount of use, then I too recommend replacement of the spokes.
Thirdly, it is not a conspiracy and it will be the best 9 pounds you will spend on educating yourself the art of wheel building. I paid it and I have read the 100 odd pages numerous times and his spoke calculator is quite accurate also. If you are serious about learning how to build wheels properly, you should buy this document. I also won't give out the pdf as it is only 9 pounds and the information in it is worth 3 times this much and Roger should not be ripped off such a small amount as he deserves to be paid for such a great resource. And lets be real, people walk into a bike shop and pay $100+ for a build. If you were to buy all of the stuff required to build good quality, reliable wheels and are prepared to put in a few hours of effort you will be no worse off financially.
SummitFever
Eats Squid
MTB Wanabe - spot on.
None of this stuff is rocket science, you've just got to use your head. I really hate it when the same old wives tales and BS get repeated and parroted out time and time again.
None of this stuff is rocket science, you've just got to use your head. I really hate it when the same old wives tales and BS get repeated and parroted out time and time again.
RainbowofDETH
Likes Dirt
Well these rims are good. I hit a car doing about 50kph today and they're fine.. pretty funny that the car came off second best against me and my bike 
donthucktoflat
Eats Squid
Funny, when the bike is moving and the car ain't that usually seems to be the case. . Partly cos you can handle the fall, get up and bash their roof & boot inWell these rims are good. I hit a car doing about 50kph today and they're fine.. pretty funny that the car came off second best against me and my bike
RainbowofDETH
Likes Dirt
The guy at my LBS said my wheel were built wrong too.. but NS says different!
RIMS
NS Fundamental & Trailmaster rims are disk brake only compatibile. They are not compatibile with V-brakes or U-brakes
Wheelbuilding: Trailmaster rims have asymmetrical offset drilling for optimized spoke setup and stronger structure (design for standard lacing- no cross lacing). Spokes from the left side of the rim should always go the the left hub flange and never to the right one. Spokes from the right side of the rim should always face to the right hub flange and never to the left one.
RIMS
NS Fundamental & Trailmaster rims are disk brake only compatibile. They are not compatibile with V-brakes or U-brakes
Wheelbuilding: Trailmaster rims have asymmetrical offset drilling for optimized spoke setup and stronger structure (design for standard lacing- no cross lacing). Spokes from the left side of the rim should always go the the left hub flange and never to the right one. Spokes from the right side of the rim should always face to the right hub flange and never to the left one.
Shit true? thats how my wheels are laced.. might give them a ring haha
RainbowofDETH
Likes Dirt
Yeah haha. I thought the same and so did a few bike shops. But I messaged CRC (because they built them) and they sent me through that, but I just thought I'd look on the NS website to check and they were right.
This is strange because even though NS say not to cross-lace the rim, their pictures of the built rim show cross-lacing this is what my LBS told me..
Would be good if someone else has these same rims and has some more knowledge on them
RainbowofDETH
Likes Dirt
Well how about this.. mine are already laced and they're done how NS say they have to be done. You do it cross over as pictured and see who's last longer? haha
Honestly though, that's pretty retarded. It's like 'do as I say, not as I do'. Would like to know why they've done and said this then..
haha Honestly though, that's pretty retarded. It's like 'do as I say, not as I do'. Would like to know why they've done and said this then..
RainbowofDETH
Likes Dirt
Yeah they're bent at the nipple slightly. But for some reason my wheel seems super stiff.. compared to my last 2 sets anyway. I've been rolling with them for probably 2 months now without a problem, so I'll just leave them and see how it goes. If they were weaker this way, then I'm sure something would of broke, snapped or bent by now!
MTB Wanabe
Likes Dirt
I would suggest to send NS Bikes an email requesting clarification on the information they are providing as it is clearly contradicting what they are doing. Their reply will be more accurate as to why than any other random poster
I've built a couple of sets using the Trailmaster rims and built them up in the conventional fashion, eg spoke on left side of the hub laced to the spoke holes on the left side of the rim and they have been going strong for the last couple of years without any issues and are stiff wheels. One thing to bear in mind though if you do laterally cross the spokes, eg left flange to right rim spoke hole is that it may place excessive stress on the spoke nipple head and rim spoke hole due to the angle it will seat at. This angle will be accentuated if the nipple bed isn't flat, eg rounded or a v shape.
I've built a couple of sets using the Trailmaster rims and built them up in the conventional fashion, eg spoke on left side of the hub laced to the spoke holes on the left side of the rim and they have been going strong for the last couple of years without any issues and are stiff wheels. One thing to bear in mind though if you do laterally cross the spokes, eg left flange to right rim spoke hole is that it may place excessive stress on the spoke nipple head and rim spoke hole due to the angle it will seat at. This angle will be accentuated if the nipple bed isn't flat, eg rounded or a v shape.
MTB Wanabe
Likes Dirt
This set may have been tensioned properly compared to the other 2 and were they the same rims, spokes, nipples and built by the same builder as if any one of these were different on this last wheel, then you will get a wheel that will feel different?
When they do break, my guess is they will break at either the base of the spoke thread or crack the head of the nipple off, how long with that be, who knows, depends on how much and how hard you ride your bike.