Re-Instate Mt. Tamborine Downhill Trail Campaign

[Stint]

That said, incorporating some sort of warning on any of the larger features may not be a bad thing.

Totally agree. Not having done any homework on IMBA or UCI guidelines to see if this is a requirement, but if a safety Risk Assessment was carried out on the track, such warnings would be a suggested control measure to mitigate the risk.

Some of the good examples I've seen have been:

* Double black warning of particularly hard features;
* Small flags at the lip of the jump;
* DROP for, you guessed it, a drop;
* I'm pretty sure its a double arrow side by side pointed down for a steep.

 

[dirt lover]

That said, incorporating some sort of warning on any of the larger features may not be a bad thing.

How big is big though? 2m? 5m? 10m? Because every rider feels different things are big.

 

[Oppy]

Stint is on the money. Any descision would need to be based on a risk assessment. Then it is upto the land managers will have to decide what level of risk they accept. There areas in NP's that have rock climbing where there are also some obvious risks. Even hiking in national parks there are cases of people who die of exposure after getting lost.

Signs are just one tool to manage visitors, education and enforcement are also part of the mix as well.

 

[JaRedy]

How big is big though? 2m? 5m? 10m? Because every rider feels different things are big.

Just use the tri-arrow system?
^, ^^, ^^^ to mark the difficulty.

Let's say somebody is a complete newb, thinks the ^ is nothing, and it turns out to be a 1 foot drop, and the crash. They learn't their lesson for not "looking before they lept", while getting a good idea at how difficult the track is at other locations idicated by either ^^ or ^^^ arrows..

This isnt always good though because yeah different sections can be hard for some and harder for others. Think back to illinbah when they had the a-line. For me, it was the first time I had ever been there. I was on a POS hardy. The section after the forest, down the slope to the bridge, was indicated with "^^^". I was like oh nice i can ride the "^^^" sections no probs. The a-line was marked with "^^^", i thought it would be something similar. Nope, i ate it 5m into the section... (at this stage i wasnt really able to ride any of it). If the section after the bridge was ^^^ then the A-line should have been "^^^^^^^^^^".
Yeah....good example for judgement errors in signage I spose...

 

[Deadman]

Great input guys

You all are putting some intellectual effort into this campaign - great stuff.

A lot of outdoor sports and recreations have the old cliche rules like -
DON'T CLIMB ALONE or DON'T BUSHWALK ALONE or DON'T RIDE ALONE etc - These statements are usually in the first paragraph of any guide book or instruction manual that I have seen.

A good first rule for DHing would be along the lines of - INSPECT A NEW TRACK

To process warning signs while you are pinning is a skill I don't have!

Dave

 

[stringbean]

Signs should be for novice riders, all small jumps, dorps ect should be marked. once you've done the track a few times you should know where your going, so you wont be looking at the signs.

 

[theMerryPrankster]

How big is big though? 2m? 5m? 10m? Because every rider feels different things are big.

Absolutely, though I assume there is some sort of rating standard for features in the same way that there is for trails.

Like Oppy said, the amount of signage required will likely come from higher up, not from our end. Taking the rock climbing/hiking example again, those who have climbed Tibrogargan will know how brutal and sketchy parts of that climb are, with little to no trail marking. The only thing that indicates that the climb is going to be difficult is the trail rating at the car park.

My point is, if the trail difficulty is accurately rated on signage at the trail head, then the onus should fall on the rider to assess the trail against their own riding ability (or inability) before pinning it.

 

[Oppy]

A bit of a cross post from this thread http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2273930

Hi All

The dump run is dead. We are getting bulk riders and shuttle traffic on Old Tambo as a result.

There is potential here for riders to hit 4x4s where the track crosses the shuttle. If this happens we could easily lose this track as well.

I think we need signage on the shuttle saying "Rider crossing, sound horn" or something along those lines.

Does anyone have the resources to generate this kind of signage? Best I can do is some laminated A4 sheets, and I think we need A3 as a minimum.

Post here or PM me if you've got the goods. And stop riding the dump run untill this B.U.G. thing has run it's course!

Cheers,

Craig

Hi Craig,

There are still riders riding the Tip run and there is an argument that people should continue to ride the tip run. It goes something like this.

If no one is riding the trail then clearly those 'users' have gone elsewhere therefore demand for the trail cannot be clearly demonstrated. The tip run has always been unauthorised and nothing has changed in this regard. The only change is that a sign has been erected. To my knowledge no actual closure has occured on the trail. By the act of continuing to ride the trail 'users' are continuing to show that there is a need for the activity to be managed and provides impetus to do it sooner rather than later. It will also keep the trail open and in trafficable condition. I think it is clear people will have thier own opinion on this but it is a discussion worth having.

It is also worth considering that the top section of 'old tambo' is also managed by QPWS. The lower sections are a combination of narrow road reserve and private property. To my knowledge the fence lines are those that were easy to construct and do not necessaryily reflect the edge of the road reserve. I also believe that the road reserve falls in Gold Coast City Council as opposed to Scenic Rim.

Thoughts?

 

[Stint]

Signs should be for novice riders, all small jumps, dorps ect should be marked. once you've done the track a few times you should know where your going, so you wont be looking at the signs.

Correction. Signs are there as indicators, whether you're a novice, or elite rider. It's also a demonstration to the relevant authorities that we as a community are putting measures in to reduce risk by giving users adequate warning.

Just think yellow warning signs on roads, which warns you of upcoming speed bumps, train level crossings, etc.

 

[Stint]

A bit of a cross post from this thread http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2273930
Thoughts?

Oppy, that's an interesting point of view you've put forward.

As someone who has been keeping an eye on this issue the past couple of weeks, the message that I got was that until we have proper direction from those who are driving BUG as to what the proposed actions are, then any riding on the Dump Run would be hurting the cause.

However, if the cause would be helped if people were to continue to use the Dump Run in a manner that shows courtesy and respect for residents and users of the facility, and that was the word put out by those spearheading BUG, there would be no doubt people would be more than happy to do so.

No doubt that a lot of us here are waiting on the directions that Deadman and yourself would provide.

 

[liam90]

Although only new to this so far exciting world of DH I feel that as a local of Tamborine, and knowing how difficult it can be to find legal places to ride motorbikes and what not in the past. I'd like to help volunteer to help out whether it be signing petitions to pushing around dirt.

I'm also keen for making some new friends

Liam

 

[Oppy]

Stint of course Deadman and I both have opinions on the matter however I'd be interested to know other peoples feelings on the issue. Civil obedience or civil disobedience?

Talking of direction....

 

[Oppy]

Mtn BUG Meeting Knoll Rd Tambo this Sunday

Ahead of meeting with QPWS rangers after the 25th the Mtn Bug are planning a site visit of our own to Mt Tamborine this Sunday. The purpose of the meeting is to put names to faces and talk about all the issues with the trail. We will also be taking a critical look at the trail talking about specific issues of sustainability saftey and user conflict. We will also be taking photo's of the condition of the trail and GPS'ing it's location.

It would be great if as many people as possible could turn out to be part of the meeting. Currently Deadman and I will be out early in the morning with the intent to be wrapped up and heading home for lunch. We are both family men who have other commitments beyond sweet trails.

We will be meeting at the transfer station (tip) at the end of Knoll Rd. In an attempt to manage parking please car pool in a shuttle vehicle from a suitable parking place ie the bottom or up in the villiage.

 

[theMerryPrankster]

Stint of course Deadman and I both have opinions on the matter however I'd be interested to know other peoples feelings on the issue. Civil obedience or civil disobedience?

Talking of direction....

I think regulated disobedience could carry a certain amount of weight here.

If people continue to ride, but act in a manner that is exemplary and respect the locals/traffic laws/etc, then it will go a long way to show that downhillers as a group can be responsible and are deserving of having the trail officially re-opened.

The counter argument of course is that the residents could point to the use after the trail has been clearly closed as evidence that we don't respect the law at all. Tough call either way.

Re: Sunday, I'd love to come help out, but am heading north to help with the Beerburrum 6. Since it's a relatively small event I doubt there will be too many people experiencing the same time-clash.

 

[stringbean]

Ahead of meeting with QPWS rangers after the 25th the Mtn Bug are planning a site visit of our own to Mt Tamborine this Sunday.

might not get to much of a turnout as the beerie 6hour is on on sunday

 

[PirateKing]

Gday Oppy,

I'm the student civil engineer that emailed you not too long ago. I'm heading up thursday to look at the dirt, I found some geological information but not a lot. Just going to go up there and sort it out because I have some free time. I will be there sunday, but you didn't mention a meeting time, is there a rough time people should be there?

Cheers.

 

[kenny b]

My 2 Cents Worth

Hi All,
To all of you that read this thread but do nothing else, get on face book and join the MTN BUG it's a worthy cause and there is no reason not to support it no matter your location or riding preference the ramifications could be far spread.

BIKE SHOPS AND BUSINESSES Without ranting to much you need to support the MTN bike community that supports you NO TRAILS NO SALES It costs you nothing.

Everyone ask your riding friends, ask your local bike shops and mtn bike businesses if they support MTN BUG if they don't, why not? There is no reason not too! Why support businesses that don't support the community that they make a living off!

It's time for solidarity and time to choose a side if nothing comes from this then you've lost nothing (except a great trail) If things change then you know you supported something that made a difference!

You don't need to be an activist, be a supporter but don't be an onlooker.

 

[Oppy]

Not worried about the 6hr. We just need to keep progressing regardless of other events etc that are on. If people have other commitments that is understandable.

I have to confirm a kick off time with Deadman but I have made a Facebook event for the Mtn BUG group page and nominated 7:30 as a start time. That time works for me to get out there and start going through the track.

 

[liam90]

Facebook Page

Sorry guys, trying to find this facebook page, is it possible to please link it? I've tried searching and with my facebook illiteracy I'm struggling to come up with anything.
Thanks

 

[Oppy]

Search for The Mountain Bicycle User Group will put a direct link later.