Pre entering races

[thecat]

With Nzo24 called off due to lack of early preentries and my involvement in Newtons Playground openning my eyes to how other sports run I just thought I'd have discussion/rant/whatever on preentries.

Last years NSW series saw good pre entries in DH and XC for the first time, the $30 penalty for late entry being a big whipping stick yet still 90% of those entries came in the last 2 or 3 days before the event.



So it's got me thinking why is it that MTBers generally leave entering to the last possible minute?

To be honest I do it too and have always justified it with the usual "It's that kind of sport, you never know when your bike or body will be broken"


But we still book leave and accomadation and dealling with the whole Newtons thing showed me BMX, Luge, skateboarding, skydiving... all had full entrant lists available and published 3 weeks out. MTB entries are only just starting to come in.

So what are peoples thoughts? Why do we leave it to the last minute to enter things?

 

[Macr]

Could be many things.
Weather is a good one, most people don't like riding in shitty conditions, so they hold off to see what the weather is going to be like. Cost, racing is expensive and people may have to save up to enter (especially Sydney siders with huge mortgages). I know I have to budget out my money, so I don't get to enter into many races. Time, not everyone can have there life planned out months ahead. Popularity, people may wait to see how popular the event is, before entering. There is probably a hundred other reasons as well.

 

[thecat]

Could be many things.
Weather is a good one, most people don't like riding in shitty conditions, so they hold off to see what the weather is going to be like. Cost, racing is expensive and people may have to save up to enter (especially Sydney siders with huge mortgages). I know I have to budget out my money, so I don't get to enter into many races. Time, not everyone can have there life planned out months ahead. Popularity, people may wait to see how popular the event is, before entering. There is probably a hundred other reasons as well.

But how are those points any different to the other sports mentioned above? Which is kind of what sparked my want to open it up for discussion.

Luge, BMX, Skate boarding... they all have the same weather, cost, budget and planning concerns for riders don't they?

 

[Macr]

But how are those points any different to the other sports mentioned above?

Not sure about costs, as I don't know how much it costs to enter the different disciplines.
Weather: MTB races are normally held in all but appalling conditions, so you get drivetrain wear for a start. How is the drivetrain wear on skateboard wheels and parachutes?
Popularity: Maybe it is because of event saturation, these days. Are there more MTB events than Luge, skateboarding, skydiving? I'm guessing there is

Take out the clause on the entry form, saying you can enter on the day.

 

[alchemist]

So what are peoples thoughts? Why do we leave it to the last minute to enter things?

Beacuse we can. Unlike a lot of those other sports there is never any cut-off dates.

 

[Air time erik]

Have you Read the latest [R]evolution, they pretty much sum it up. Downhillers dont know what they are doing till the last minute...thats why organizing a ride is always a pain.

 

[Delmar]

Is it true?

Did I miss something??

There's nothing about a cancelation on the wsmtb or BOP site. Its just dropped in this thread and everybody so far seems to be reacting as though its old news.

So is it really locked in that its off?

EDIT: by the way I reckon as macr said there's a heap of reasons people are late with entries, but alot of it comes down to STABO: Subject To A Better Offer. As much as some of the reasons are 'reasonable', we could just think a bit less of ourselves and more of the people who run our sport for us and commit. I think the 12 hrs of so much darkness also had this problem recently. Pretty sad if events die cos people can't be stuffed being organised. As alchemist said in other sports (that I've been invovled in anyway), there's simply no late entry/entry on the day.

Or than again maybe the race was dying for other reasons? Natural selection?

 

[scblack]

Beacuse we can. Unlike a lot of those other sports there is never any cut-off dates.

Bingo! Got it in one.

Organisers of MTB races are so worried about getting good numbers, they leave the cut-off date to the very end. If the cut-off date is two weeks beforehand, people have to sort themselves out then.

But we don't have to, so we don't.

 

[October26]

Beacuse we can. Unlike a lot of those other sports there is never any cut-off dates.

Exactly right.

 

[alchemist]

So is it really locked in that its off?

The N-zo 24 hr as it was is off. My tip would be keep that weekend free, you never know what may rise from the ashes...

 

[thecat]

Bingo! Got it in one.

Organisers of MTB races are so worried about getting good numbers, they leave the cut-off date to the very end. If the cut-off date is two weeks beforehand, people have to sort themselves out then.

But we don't have to, so we don't.

So earlier cut off dates are the answer?

I know we got a few complaints when entries closed 3 days out from the events Last year. Do we set a week earlier and suck it and see? Pissing some people off for one or two races before they learn to get in earlier? It may be the only option

 

[alchemist]

A cut-off a week or two before the event is not unreasonable. Late entries can be accepted on application and with payment on an appropriate late fee.

 

[scblack]

So earlier cut off dates are the answer?

I know we got a few complaints when entries closed 3 days out from the events Last year. Do we set a week earlier and suck it and see? Pissing some people off for one or two races before they learn to get in earlier? It may be the only option

You may piss some people off, and some may not attend, but the date has to be set early if you want it to be done then.

I recall from my teenage BMX days, there was no sign up on the day option, so you got organised or missed out. If you do not want to cut that out, a bigger financial penalty for signing on the day will make more people do the early option.

 

[ebuk]

I normally enter as soon as I can, however due to a late cancel of another event I entered the Lithgow WWS on the day of the event.

I arrived paid $15 for the late fee, didn't have to stand in line (that was 50 riders deep), so I have to wonder what the incentive is for entering early? $15 is relatively small change for entering on the day, especially as it was an easy way to queue jump.

Weather is maybe a factor? With the rain this year it may detract some from entering early, preferring to wait and see what the weather is gonna be like, I know I am guilty of being like this. I ain't a fan of riding round and round in a mud fest.

Also I think it's as much the organisers and the event. The Mont & Scott seem to just always sell out. The Lithgow WWS round had 400. The Sydney 24hour seems to have not done so well as an event. Perhaps it's because it is trying to be ALL events 24/12/100 in one?

Would the early cut off have made a difference for the Sydney 24hr? It's OVER a month away and it's been canned. Would putting a entries close 27th Feb (for a April event) have made much difference?

 

[BrumbyJack]

A cut-off a week or two before the event is not unreasonable. Late entries can be accepted on application and with payment on an appropriate late fee.

Yep, I think that would work. FWIW ski races always get late entries too.

In Canada we entered weeks in advance because it took me that long to organise the transport and accommodation anyway.

We only entered in the MTBA National Series Finals on the Friday because we only got back into the Country on the Wed night... I guess we could have entered online while overseas but we needed to make sure we could get to the race, bikes were OK and all sorts of things, like getting over jetlag in time.

Perhaps if pre entries could be refunded due to major issues, like injuries or broken bikes, then people would be prepared to pre enter???

 

[Elbo]

I understand why it is so frustrating and alchemist's response is the real reason. But as a current example, we have a DH race coming up on Saturday, entries close on Thursday 11:59pm (all done online with credit cards).

I registered on the 6th of Feb, but hadn't paid and was planning to pay last night when I got home. I went up last night to practise again, and crashed. I can't bend my knee enough to even pedal, I'm so cut that I can't race as I haven't had a decent crash in a few years. I've now withdrawn from the race, but if I had've paid earlier, I would've lost $50 (includes prepaid MTBA day licence).

So it's difficult for both organisers and riders. I think it's just the nature of the sport. Riders don't want to loose their entry fee if they happen to crash before race day. Organisers want to know how many will be racing before the day and to have people commit to the race. They're clashing objectives.

I'm cut about missing out on the race, but I will be helping marshaling and doing shuttles.

 

[jda]

What have you seen with regards to your involvement in the Newtons Playground festival that made you post this thread?

Just interested as I may be going to film the trials demo's.

 

[thecat]

What have you seen with regards to your involvement in the Newtons Playground festival that made you post this thread?

Just interested as I may be going to film the trials demo's.

Just that every other displine has either sold out or at least confirmed the "big names" well before the closing date while MTB entries are only just starting to coming in.

I thought it normal, especially with dual slalom but the guys on councils end were a bit panicie..

Jump entries are good. trials demo Adam is lining up.

 

[dirtdemon]

To trains of thought - We always pre-enter and book accommodation early but the people we travel with book late and rarely ever pre-enter. We think our strategy is the best (ie your organised), they think it's best to wait incase for whatever reason they can't go (ie don't lose money).

With accommodation you can always cancel as long as you notify them 24 hours before hand (unless it's wotif) and on state rounds most don't book annual leave but just go on the Saturday/Sunday.

The problem with pre-registration is getting your money back if you change your mind or can't go, or get injured and also making people aware of when the event is on and when rego closes. It's not too much of a problem if your online every day but for those who aren't it's just easier to turn up on the weekend of the event and register.

 

[Le Matelot]

So it's got me thinking why is it that MTBers generally leave entering to the last possible minute?

I wish I knew I agree with heaps of the reasons that have been advanced, but that doesn't make it any easier on the club organising the race.

Don't really know about the effectiveness of the "late fee". At the 2008 national Champs the number of on-the-day entries was about 14% of the field - with a $10 late fee. Yet, in 2007 (with a late fee of $50) on-the-day entries were 12% of the field. Not much difference.

At the "lower level", our experience is that the proportion of on-the-day entries is higher. At the National round at Mt Beauty, 50% of the DHI field was on-the-day entries, and, lets face it, most club level races 100% are on-the-day entries.

This year, MTBA introduced a policy for the National Rounds and National Champs that only the riders who pre-entered would get a number plate that reflected their ranking. That still didn't seem to affect the number of on-the-day entries either.

A view from the other side of the fence

Here is an example of how it affects the organising club...

You get 100 riders pre enter for a DH race, so you organise toilets, buses and trailers etc based on, just to be safe, 120 riders. But an extra 100 turn up as on-the-day entries and all of a sudden you don't have enough of anything to go around. Of course, the race is on a Sunday so you can't get any more of the things you need anyhow. Everyone leaps on Farkin to say your event sucks because there wasn't enough toilets, buses and trailers...

But, more importantly, here is an example of how everyone loses...

Harassed organiser rings up Channel XYZ and asks them to come out and film the race for the news. "Which big-name riders are going to be there?", they ask. "Dunno", you say, "hardly any of them have pre-entered". "Oh well", you hear over the phone, "we have higher priority events that weekend."

On the morning of the race, several big-name riders do enter. They don't get the number 1,2,3 plates with the result that people who aren't familiar with the sport don't know who these riders are (these are the new people we're trying to attract to the sport - remember).

Harassed organiser frantically rings up Channel XYZ a few minutes later to tell them that, "We now have 6 of the world's top 20 riders in the race. Can you send out a film crew? "Sorry", you hear over the phone, "all our crews are out covering the fingernail growing competition somewhere back of Bourke."

The end result? You don't get on Channel XYZ, the sport doesn't get on Channel XYZ, the big-name riders sponsors don't get on Channel XYZ and the event sponsors don't get on Channel XYZ. Everyone loses...