LBS and suspension service

pistonbroke

pistonbroke

Eats Squid
I've been surprised by the number of LBS's that don't service mtb suspension. While I don't wish to name names, even some of the larger mtb dedicated stores admit to sending out all their suspension work. This comes as quite a surprise. If I was a bicycle mechanic I would love to sink my teeth into this stuff. IMO most of it is pretty straight forward. Strip, clean, change some seals, add some oil and possibly charge with nitrogen.

Every motorcycle shop I've ever worked at has done this in house. Why is the bicycle industry different? Is it time? Is it lack of skill in the industry? Equipment? Cost?

This isn't a thread about who does suspension work. I can easily find that. It's about the lack of skill or unwillingness to do it.

I've never worked in the bike industry but have been a motor mechanic for 13 years. One of the things I have learnt in that time is if your paying someone outside your workshop to do it, they will stuff it up all to regularly. Your better off to buy the equipment and learn the required skills. It pays in the long run and you can have confidence in the work done.

Any insiders care to share their experiences? Please don't name names or bag any stores.
 
The Duckmeister

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
pistonbroke said:
Every motorcycle shop I've ever worked at has done this in house. Why is the bicycle industry different? Is it time? Is it lack of skill in the industry? Equipment? Cost?
Click to expand...
Formal training in the bike industry is almost non-existent, unlike automotive/motorbike stuff which is everywhere. I'm almost entirely self-taught, and have been in a shop job for ten years. Most others in the trade would be the same.

Servicing forks doesn't require anything particularly special, so any shops that don't do them are just lazy. Rear shocks do require some specialised equipment, and given the relative infrequency of rear shock jobs, it's just not viable for most shops to fork out for something that would only get used once in a blue moon. Related to the first problem, most bosses don't really want their staff fumbling around in unfamiliar territory on customers' bikes either, as firstly there's a risk of fucking it up (which isn't a good look to the customer whose bike you've fucked up), and customers generally don't want their bikes being used as "workbooks" for the mechanic. So it's kind of a vicious cycle.

The shop I'm in is certainly in that boat - I'll happily do forks, but any rear shocks we send away.
 
Last edited:
Rabble bukes

Rabble bukes

Likes Dirt
I can understand them not wanting to pull apart dampers and other more tricky bits and pieces, but surely any shop with a workshop could do a seal and bath oil change, and a seal change for rear shocks? There's not much to that sort of thing
 
D

driftking

Wheel size expert
I think the key is knowledge.
As mentioned there is no teaching in this industry most of it is personally taught. Lots of stores equally hire young kids and they don't exactly want to spend time teaching them how to service higher end things. They much prefer them to do medial jobs so the mechanics who can do them have more time.

There is not much teaching in the industry at least from personal experience. Maybe I just worked at a last store. Equally though most parts are very similar in design, where suspension is quite different between brands and models so its quite a large range of different understandings you need. Stores are not keen on just letting someone just have a crack nor are they keen on opening up very important and costly parts when someone who has experience with a few suspension parts but not that exact one.

I think the risk to time ratio is easier for them to send out and that cost always falls back to the consumer so its no issue to the store. I think practicality is also a small factor, I haven't seen many stores stock suspension parts for every fork the roles through the door so if something needs replacing they need to order and wait for those parts.

With all that above said with enough want there is no reason stores can't Impliment a teaching and learning environment and actually service suspension. I just think its not worthwhile. I'm sure that they also still pull money just from sending the fork off. It just seems to make more sense to do it the lazy way.

Less risk, less time, money for doing nothing but removing and sending a fork or shock.
 
Last edited:
wombat

wombat

Lives in a hole
For many stores it will simply be a matter of effort vs return. A lot of stores won't have tonnes of demand for suspension servicing, and as already mentioned there's a bit of variation across different forks/shocks. If a mechanic comes across a particular product once every couple of months it's not exactly going to be a regular process, and its likely that if they're taking their time and doing it carefully and properly, it's not going to be a terribly fast job. The longer it takes, the less profitable it is (customers don't want to pay more just because the mechanic wants to spend extra time reading the service manual).
Add in the fact that the seals are likely not a stock item and you can already be looking at a 1-2 day turnaround to even get to the job, and a lack of return on time when you do get to it. Suspension gear tends to be more troubled by contamination than many other components too, so a nice clean workspace with enough room to strip a fork is good to have, and it's not always possible to have an area like that set aside waiting for jobs that may be few and far between.

Compare that to options like SRAMs DSD mob who generally turn around jobs within a day, have the authority to approve and carry out warranty work on the spot, have an extensive supply of spare parts on hand and have plenty of experience with their particular products so are much more effecient when it comes to diagnosing issues/faults. Sending it to a dedicated service centre starts looking like a pretty attractive option.

Of course for stores that specialise in high end MTB gear there may be a greater call for suspension servicing and the throughput may make it more economical for them to do it in house, but high-end MTB isn't a massive market in the industry as a whole.

They're my thoughts on it anyway.
 
C

Camdyson

Likes Bikes
Even if they can't do the services, they need to know what might need doing so it can be outsourced. When querying my LBS about when my forks needed to be serviced, they used to say "leave them alone if they seem to be working ok". So of course down the track when they weren't ok, and I sent to a fork specialist, the result was "they're screwed, have you been having them serviced regularly?"

Take home message for me was: Find someone who CAN do forks, and get them serviced regularly. Time will tell if this approach works out cheaper in the long run...

(If I ever clear off my garage workbench I'll have a crack, but for now it's the one maintenance job still in "voodoo" territory for me)

Cam D
 
pistonbroke

pistonbroke

Eats Squid
Fuck it. I'm buying all the tools I need and am doing it all myself. I was servicing nitrogen charged moto shocks when I was 16. There's no great voodoo in mtb stuff.
 
Z

Zam

Likes Dirt
A bit of a noob question but related to the topic, how often should one service a set of forks? and for that matter a rear shock?
 
C

creaky

XMAS Plumper
pistonbroke said:
Fuck it. I'm buying all the tools I need and am doing it all myself. I was servicing nitrogen charged moto shocks when I was 16. There's no great voodoo in mtb stuff.
Click to expand...
What tools ? If you've got a socket set and some spanners you'll be fine. Maybe an old spoke sharpened as a seal pick. Circlip pliers for some forks. I can't think of anything else.
 
S

SummitFever

Eats Squid
pistonbroke said:
Fuck it. I'm buying all the tools I need and am doing it all myself. I was servicing nitrogen charged moto shocks when I was 16. There's no great voodoo in mtb stuff.
Click to expand...
Moto stuff is easier to work on (although I've found the KTM WP rear shocks to be painful to bleed all of the air out of without rigging up a dedicated pressure bleeder), but none of its rocket science. SRAM stuff has all the manuals for complete service. Fox stuff has manuals online (but not officially through Fox and not for more recent versions like the boost value RP23's). Nitro fill needle on the Fox shocks is a silly design, but you can buy the fill needle setup from the US. Take it with you to your local moto shop and they can nitro fill the IFP. I personally don't bother with nitro filling the IFP, and if the frame has sufficient room I will fit a schrader valve off a Ford EFI fuel rail to the IFP fill port so I can just pump it up with a shock pump. Otherwise I make my own IFP seals from 7mm o-ring cord sliced into discs.
 
C

creaky

XMAS Plumper
SummitFever said:
Nitro fill needle on the Fox shocks is a silly design, but you can buy the fill needle setup from the US. Take it with you to your local moto shop and they can nitro fill the IFP. I personally don't bother with nitro filling the IFP, and if the frame has sufficient room I will fit a schrader valve off a Ford EFI fuel rail to the IFP fill port so I can just pump it up with a shock pump. Otherwise I make my own IFP seals from 7mm o-ring cord sliced into discs.
Click to expand...
Ahhhh ... just ignore this every other reader thinking about working on your shock ....
 
pistonbroke

pistonbroke

Eats Squid
I know why nitrogen is used. And in a perfect world that's great. But the reality is it will make sfa difference on a c graders xc bike. The shock would never generate the heat required to make it worthwhile.
And as a full time mechanic who has always loved buying tools, there isn't much I don't have. I have more tools than Snap-On.


Doing it myself has many benefits as well. I learn new skills. I don't have to wait for people to fail to ring me back(one shop said they'd call me back in 10 minutes, four days ago). I also get to buy new tools:)

Anyway, stay tuned. This may end in a "Which new shock?" thread.
 
S

SummitFever

Eats Squid
creaky said:
Ahhhh ... just ignore this every other reader thinking about working on your shock ....
Click to expand...
My post was to give Pistonbroke some info that might help him. It's clearly not intended for guys who can't tell a hammer from a screwdriver.

So Creaky, if you think anything I've posted is wrong then lets hear it. I'm always willing to learn. I only post on things that I've have first hand experience of, so I'm waiting with baited breath to hear your words of wisdom on the subject.

As PistonBroke says, nitro filling is not required. RS shocks come with a nitro fill in the IFP from the factory, but the SRAM rebuild manual (along with the instructions for the RS IFP fill adapter) says fill with air. Air is 78% nitrogen and the 20% oxygen in an air IFP fill will have no deleterious affects on the performance or longevity of your shock.
 
C

creaky

XMAS Plumper
SummitFever said:
My post was to give Pistonbroke some info that might help him. It's clearly not intended for guys who can't tell a hammer from a screwdriver.

So Creaky, if you think anything I've posted is wrong then lets hear it. I'm always willing to learn. I only post on things that I've have first hand experience of, so I'm waiting with baited breath to hear your words of wisdom on the subject.

As PistonBroke says, nitro filling is not required. RS shocks come with a nitro fill in the IFP from the factory, but the SRAM rebuild manual (along with the instructions for the RS IFP fill adapter) says fill with air. Air is 78% nitrogen and the 20% oxygen in an air IFP fill will have no deleterious affects on the performance or longevity of your shock.
Click to expand...
Steady on tiger .... I was just saying that you're operating way above the level of every other mech on this site. I for one would not even contemplate the level of custom work that you have first hand knowlegde of ... Top info and advice, we mere mortals appreciate it, sorry if I didn't articulate my point well
:hand:
 
merc-blue

merc-blue

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Tekin and NS will be busy next month if the population of Rotorburn begin to self service all their suspension,

There is no "black magic" in suspension, just alot of fragile parts, special tools and techniques to ensure things work out.

The reason bike stores don't do suspension is its alot more sophisticated and a shock isnt made for a bike,
a YZ shock is off a YZ and for a YZ, its relatively simple, made mostly from steel, a Vivid is made for alot of varying frames with various riders and frames, a heavy guy on a bike varies the spring mass by 30% a heavy guy on a bike varies the sprung mass by 180%

Also mentioned a Qualified mechanic does 4 years (of pissweak) training while a Qualified bike mechanic is lucky to do 4 months.
 
pistonbroke

pistonbroke

Eats Squid
Remember I'm talking servicing. Strip it, clean it, change some seals and assemble. I'm not talking modifying or revalving.

These are the simple skills I expect decent bike stores to have.

Saying that, I'm a motor mechanic. In most modern workshops the mechanics on the floor don't rebuild diffs, transmissions, steering racks or pumps. In a lot of cases it's not that the techs are incapable, but more about some of the reasons listed above. It's just not worth their time to sit there for hours rebuilding it when they can make a call and have a reco unit delivered in the hour with a 12 month warranty.

The only time most of the techs do get stuck into these things is on their own cars, to save a few bucks. I suspect maybe the same happens in bike stores.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top