Help - Back Pain

[rsclio]

So I do a little bit of racing and after about an hour i get lower back pain.
On Sunday did the Rock Hop as a team of 2 with alternating laps
During my 2nd lap started to feel some discomfort in my lower back. After that lap I did quite a bit of stretching etc which seemed to help a little although on my 3rd lap the pain got worse.
Again i stretched on my break and my partner was experiencing leg cramps on this lap which gave me a greater time before getting back on the bike but I was now going to do the final 2 laps. First lap I backed off a bit and rode with a mate who was also experiencing cramps by the end of the lap that lap was not too bad but by the end of the next lap I could not bend over and an hour later still had trouble getting in my car.
I finished the race and my mate commented that I was not even breathing heavily - I feel I have more in my legs but my back pain distracts me.
The same thing happened at the yowie 66km event last year although then it was much worse but thankfully they had free massages afterwards otherwise there was no way I was going to be able to pack anything up and drive home.
Today the pain has minimised but am not yet moving freely.
I ride a 4.5" dually.
Is this me the bike set up or both?

 

[Johnny Come Lately]

This could be any number of things. Go to a professional and see fi they diagnose a structural problem you may have ie. osteopath, sports physician etc. They can and will suggest solutions for you.

It may well be the setup on your bike, but it sounds quite serious if you can't fold into the car for such a long time.

 

[Jackstack]

Usually bike set up or core strength if you only get the pain while riding. Go to your LBS get your bike fitted properly and see if that helps first.
Oh yeh and what Johhny Come Lately said.

 

[HamishS]

I am no doctor or bike mechanic though a few points:

- Stretch regularly / do back exercises during the week
- Get bike fitted properly
- Do more riding ... your back muscles may not be used to it

Shouldnt matter what bike you ride or the travel it has ... as long as it is set up right

 

[Blues]

Could be lots of things from bike setup (eg Seat height to high and causing the hips to rock.) or your core strength. Some people find having overloaded camelbacks to cause strain on the lower back.


I found this a good website for core strength exercises as well as warm up stretch and rehab exercises have a look at all the vids.

http://www.bikejames.com/ipod-videos/mountain-bike-core-strength-sequence/

I've even bought a foam roller from Rebel and do lots of work on my It-band (which really really really hurts at the start but over time it get easier)

 

[gixer7]

Is this me the bike set up or both?

Yes, no or maybe.

Back pain can have so many causes it's not funny.

If it is only happening when you ride (race??) then bike setup is one possible cause. However it could also be related to muscle imbalances that get aggravated by riding. A weak core could be to blame or it could be a combo of the all of the above or maybe you just slept badly the night before.

I would recommend you seek some more professional advice.

 

[Tee Man]

As mentioned, it could be a number of things.

I'm no expert on the subject, but purely from personal experience, I found that it came down to how much of the bumps your letting your back absorb.

After much mucking around, in hindsight, I concluded that there was two distinct ways to go about it:

1. HTFU and get out of the saddle more; or
2. Saddle position.

First point is pretty straight forward. Let your legs take the impact and save your back. Simple.

Second point (from what I understand) - the further back your saddle is, the more prone your back is to pain because it needs to work harder to absorb the impacts. This is compared to a more vertical (with the saddle forward) position. The danger here is that as you bring your saddle forward, this puts more stress on your knees. So you go from having back problems to having knee problems (I know I did). So it's a bit of a balancing act.

I think the simplest and most straight forward solution is dealing with the first point above. You can spend aaages trying to sort out bike position and potentially spend plenty of $ on pro advice, but in the end if your body is simply just not up to it, you'll always get pain somewhere.

Getting bike position right seems like the easier more straight forward option. That's why i thought that that was the way to go at first. But then i ended up doing small adjustments each week and just stressing about it every time i rode, constantly thinking "is it this? or is it this? maybe if i move this a little ... " etc etc. Completely ruined the enjoyment factor with no real black and white solution in the end.

Without the intention of sorting out my back and knee problems i was having, i started commuting to work during the week more for the purpose of just getting fitter. But lo and behold, as i got fitter and stronger, the pain went away - without any bike position adjustments.

So just focus on getting stronger. Stronger legs so that you can keep out of the saddle more. And a stronger core for those times where you have no choice but to stay seated (like that 3am lap at a 24hr race).

Obviously getting bike position right at the same time is ideal (but I think it's of secondary importance).

My 2c.

 

[mittagongmtb]

I found this a good website for core strength exercises as well as warm up stretch and rehab exercises have a look at all the vids.

http://www.bikejames.com/ipod-videos/mountain-bike-core-strength-sequence/

/QUOTE]

I suffer chronic back pain and was destined for surgery 4 years ago. L4-5-6 intervertebral canal stenosis. I had treatment ranging from non steroidals through to physiotherapy. The only treatment that works IMHO is to exercise. And to do that: you need to do the correct exercises - as above. Start by doing say 5 reps of each twice daily - build up over several weeks to 10reps twice daily. Also the current issue of Australian MTB i think has some exercises to do as well.

Long and short: you need to develop core strength. I used to walk daily for an hour at 6kph as well.

If near Wollongong - would recommend John Booth - exercise physiologist - Rehwork. He knows his stuff. (be aware that there are many 'remedies' but ultimately it's about getting your core strength built up. Physiotherapy may ease the soreness but nothing compares to getting core strength up! An exercise physiologist is not a physiotherapist. They don't work on your body. An exercise physiologist studies to know how muscles work and interrelate and then designs exercises for specific muscle groups. They teach and monitor your exercising - take heed of them!)

Also take a look at your work place practices - sitting in chairs or lifting heavy items. If there are problems work to address these as well....

 

[Stons]

I would also recommend seeing John Booth if hes in you area, as a fellow Exercise Physiologist I have done of his workshops on lower back pain and core strength and couldn't recommend him highly enough.

 

[joe79]

I don't know if you're in melbourne, but if so i'd recommend Emma Colson at topbike or Andrew Wynd at olympic park sports medicine. Both physios who specialise in bike fit.
When i had problems with severe back pain i went to Emma Colson. As well as making plenty of subtle changes to my positioning, she gave me a program of exercise and stretching, and had me work on changing my posture on the bike.
A year later, my back has never felt better.
I know others who have had similar improvements with Andrew Wynd.
For something as serious as back pain it's worth spending the few hundred to get a complete solution, covering all possible causes of pain.

 

[rsclio]

Thanks for the replies
I have done James Wilson workouts before so will start again on the abdominal sets.
5-10sets is a lot more than i have done in the past but I guess now I am focusing on a problem area rather than just general conditioning..

I am in Melbourne so will also check out Emma Colson/ Andrew Wynd

Again thanks for the advice

 

[Fruitbat]

+1 for core work and stretching...and do it now...don't wait like I did, thinking that it will be right, just need to ride more, HTFU, everyone gets a sore back right?? etc.
A bulged disc later made me realise that maybe it was something more... lots of osteopath appointments later my hip flexors actually flex, pilates classes once a week keeps things strong and stable, and since then I have raced two 24 hour solo's without an issue.
On a side note...strong core give me heaps better balance for the slow speed wobbly bits, and hills on the SS have never been easier...

 

[Daver]

Second point (from what I understand) - the further back your saddle is, the more prone your back is to pain because it needs to work harder to absorb the impacts. This is compared to a more vertical (with the saddle forward) position. The danger here is that as you bring your saddle forward, this puts more stress on your knees. So you go from having back problems to having knee problems (I know I did). So it's a bit of a balancing act.

This needs to be addressed. DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

Seat position fore and aft is a function of femur length and nothing else. The idea is to have your knee cap over the pedal axle, and adjusting the seat forwards and backwards will centre this perfectly, along with correct cleat setup. Moving your seat forwards will create a greater bend in your back, which will lead to more back pain.

However, for certain applications a forward seat position does work well. For triwhackers and TT riders, seats generally will move upwards and forwards, meaning that the position can be rotated forwards, lowering the bar height and placing you into a more aerodynamic position.

The other thing to bear in mind is that moving the seat fore and aft will effectively raise and lower the seat height. 1cm backwards generally means half a cm downwards and vice versa.

 

[trailburner]

ball

I am battling with constant back pain myself and it took me several months to find out what works for me. A lot of trial and error there:

1. get one of those balls to sit on if you are in front of the computer much and inflate them quite a bit. The point is to have an unstable platform to sit on so that you always move your lower back around a bit rather than having it still.

2. Pilates DVD's are pretty good as well. Good general core strength and breathing techniques.

3. sit ups several times throughout the day. and while you are lying on the floor roll around stretching your back.

I am no doctor either but they work for me. However I have to keep doing exercises every day to keep the pain away - once I get lazy it comes back in 2-3 days. Hope this helps.

 

[mittagongmtb]

I would strongly disagree wrt to situps. Curl ups would be ok. You will need someone to teach you to properly contract the abdominal muscles when doing some of these exercises. I will try and get some pics up on a pdf file.

 

[gixer7]

I would strongly disagree wrt to situps. Curl ups would be ok. You will need someone to teach you to properly contract the abdominal muscles when doing some of these exercises. I will try and get some pics up on a pdf file.

+1 for that. Pilates method is very effective but the movement is quite limited ie. no touching chin to knees etc.

Using a foam roller once you are a bit more advanced is even better - unstable base activates the muscles quite well.

Don't forget the obliques too.

 

[Jonny26]

I haven't had a chance to read this but I will link it anyway incase it has some good info.

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s-4-22-18517-1,00.html

 

[mittagongmtb]

Mayo Clinic has a good range of core muscle strength building exercises. See here.


1. Before getting out of bed, lie on stomach, relaxed, place a pillow or two under your arms, lift your head and shulders and just allow the back to gently extend and lie there for a few minutes before getting out. This is all passive.
2. Once out of bed try not to bend over eg to pick something off the floor or getting stuff out of a cupbaord, etc as during the night all your muscles around your spine have releaxed, your discs have absorbed a little moisture and are vulnerable to crush injuries by bending.
3. Start with something gentle - say 10 cat curls.
4. then floor bridges, side bridges, plank, etc (will send order later)
5. chair seating type squat is also good. 5-10 reps.
6. leg lunges are also part of strengthening glutes, thighs, core, balance etc.

7. again - if you have back pain - walk....


rsclio - I meant - do the whole set of exercises twice a day. Within the set of exercises you only need to do 5 -10 reps. If you are weak in any to start - start with 5 and gradually work up to them over 4-6 weeks.

If you haven't been able to find someone locally - give John Booth a ring - ask him who he knows in your area.

 

[iscarrr]

...Physiotherapy may ease the soreness but nothing compares to getting core strength up! An exercise physiologist is not a physiotherapist. They don't work on your body. An exercise physiologist studies to know how muscles work and interrelate and then designs exercises for specific muscle groups. They teach and monitor your exercising - take heed of them!)
...

Firstly i completely agree with you, you need to get some core work done.

What im confused about, is that you talking about physios like they just work on your soreness and thats it? I cant speak for your experiences, but probably 80-90% of the time ive spent with my physio (because of lower back pain) has been developing exercises that i can do in my own time to build strength, increase flexibity etc.

I'm still not pain free, but the core work, glut work, increased flexiblity, all prescribed by my physio has all definately helped.

 

[mittagongmtb]

Iscarr - point taken. I've seen at least 4 different physiotherapists over the last 20 years and frankly none of them developed a proper program for exercise. Yes they applied nice electrical currents, heat packs and manipulation, but none had rigorous instructions and follow ups. If you have a physio who does the joint and soft tissue manipulations appropriately and who takes the time to develop a good exercise program with you, and who monitors it - great - you've killed two birds with one stone.